40x40 pole barn build

ctfortner · Dec 12, 2017

Finally got everything sorted out and ordered. Here are the details of the new shop. The wife wanted to "pretty" it up a little, so a few of these things were to do just that.

40x40
4000 psi concrete with wire and plastic and turn down footing
6/12 roof pitch
1 ft overhang with soffits
Attic trusses providing a 12x40 storage room above
Burnished slate wainstcoat and trim with clay walls
3" vinyl back insulation walls and roof
13' inside ceiling height
26 gauge metal
1 steel man door
(3) 12x10 insulated manual garage doors
4 ft coupula with weathervane

Yesterday was a stressful day. We just bought this place and we have a curvy asphalt driveway that is 350' or so long. There is no good place to turn around either. First the building kit came via 18 wheeler, then later came the big rig dropping off the 41' long trusses. Both ended up leaving some major ruts all over the place and getting stuck at various points...but it was all finally delivered.

Yesterday they squared everyhing up and shot the grade and although it didn't look like it, the back side of the building is about 3' lower than the front. It appears much dirt is in order.

I will try to take pictures along the way and update. I am always open to suggestions if there is anything I should think about along the way. He said this will go quick, they intend to have the posts set today and framing done. Tomorrow set the trusses, and pour concrete by Friday. Weather pending, the shop should be complete late next week.

ctfortner · Dec 12, 2017

Here is my truss design and price for those that may wonder what they cost.

lakeroadster · Dec 12, 2017

Sounds like a neat barn.

2 ft overhang will look more appealing and protect the building better....

any windows?

ctfortner · Dec 12, 2017

lakeroadster said:
Sounds like a neat barn.

2 ft overhang will look more appealing and protect the building better....

any windows?

I decided no windows. I will have to garage doors in front, and 1 in the back for a drive through as well as summer wind tunnel. I had windows in my old shop that I never used and often worried about an easy target for a thief. I am hoping to have enough light from the 16 LED Costco lights I just bought while on sale.

lakeroadster · Dec 12, 2017

ctfortner said:
He said this will go quick, they intend to have the posts set today and framing done. Tomorrow set the trusses, and pour concrete by Friday.

Concrete... These fellas that are that quick to move onto the next project often times don't take the time to properly compact the sub-grade or place the reinforcing steel correctly.

If it's not compacted so hard that you need a hand sledge to drive a piece of re-bar down through the sub grade, it's not compacted correctly.

ctfortner · Dec 12, 2017

Lakeroadster, this has been one of my biggest concerns with all the fill dirt coming in. We had a long chat about it yesterday. I asked him about doing postholes down to sold ground every so often and he said he would if I wanted to, just costs more concrete. He said he normally just brings in a little dirt at a time and smooths and compacts it. Not just a large dump and move it around. But again, this has been a concern of mine. I think the only equipment he has is a Terex tracked skid steer and a old ford tractor.

What did they do to compact yours so tight?

Edit: I just found it in your build thread.

https://talk.classicparts.com/threads/lakeroadsters-high-country-barn.22110/page-7

Deezler · Dec 12, 2017

Jesus, just followed your link to see how lakeroadster did it. Thats insane, why even pour concrete at that point, the subgrade is hard enough already, lol.

Most guys just run a plate or jumping jack compactor for a couple passes and call it a day. And you know what? the slab just sits there, and is totally fine. Not knocking anyone who wants to go further, just saying, it isn't really necessary. Especially if you use rebar or re-mesh, and have at least 4-5" of slab, it isn't going to break apart on you. (note: you do have to cut control joints though)

But! If you need a lot of fill, they must compact the new material for every 6" applied (each "lift"). Cant toss on 2 or 3 feet of fill and assume it will compact properly.

For my barn I just excavated down to native soil (pure sand) and ran a plate compactor a few times. You could easily drive a rod into it, though, that's an unnecessary standard, IMO.

Deezler · Dec 12, 2017

Anyway, sorry I got all derailed there by compaction discussion, haha.

Nice plan! Gonna be a great structure. Congrats on getting it started and good luck with the build.

Any idea why the attic room is so small? With shorter knee walls, theres plenty of room to go 15' wide or more. I'm guessing the 40' span makes it a little more challenging from an engineering standpoint? My 30' attic trusses have a hefty 2x10 bottom chord, for example (I probably paid extra though, I wanted 40 psf rating).

ctfortner · Dec 12, 2017

I'm pretty sure it was due to the 40' span. I had 2 other truss companies give me quotes and they both would only go 9' wide! Yea my original quote also had 2x10 bottom chord but it was $448 more. For what I wanted this for, it will work fine. I looked at my dads the other day, he has the gambrel trusses and he has 2x6 top and bottom :wtf:

But like me, he assured the engineer it would only ever be light storage and not a hay loft.

On the compacting, should I let him do his thing and then rent a compactor and go over it a final time, or just let him do it the same way he usually does and let it be? They come highly recommended and have been doing these buildings for years, I assume there hasnt been problems in that area, but I like being safe not sorry too.

lakeroadster · Dec 12, 2017

Deezler said:
Jesus, just followed your link to see how lakeroadster did it. Thats insane, why even pour concrete at that point, the subgrade is hard enough already, lol.

Insane? Opinions vary. You yourself have paid to have the same sub grade materials, preparation, compaction and testing done... via your tax dollars. It's commonplace in industry.

Bottom line is without any compaction testing you have no idea if the sub grade was done correctly.

And your 6 inch lift "rule" is useless unless the correct type of compaction equipment is used.

If ctfortner's GC uses a skid steer and an old Ford Tractor for compaction... the compaction will not be adequate.

ctfortner · Dec 14, 2017

Most of the poles were installed and set in sackcrete yesterday. They are supposed to frame everything up today.

This is the insulation I am using

Deezler · Dec 14, 2017

lakeroadster said:
Insane? Opinions vary. You yourself have paid to have the same sub grade materials, preparation, compaction and testing done... via your tax dollars. It's commonplace in industry.

Bottom line is without any compaction testing you have no idea if the sub grade was done correctly.

And your 6 inch lift "rule" is useless unless the correct type of compaction equipment is used.

If ctfortner's GC uses a skid steer and an old Ford Tractor for compaction... the compaction will not be adequate.

Fully agreed, sorry to be inflammatory.

Your shop is incredibly awesome, but you have to admit that you went wayyyy further on sub-grade prep than 98% of the rest of us, the vast majority of whom haven't had problems with our slabs.

ctfortner, I would first talk with your contractor and ask for details on his compaction plan. If it doesn't smell right, by all means intervene, demand more, and have your own compactor on site if necessary. They probably wont want you getting in their way, but it's your building, and money.

ctfortner · Dec 14, 2017

Deezler said:
ctfortner, I would first talk with your contractor and ask for details on his compaction plan. If it doesn't smell right, by all means intervene, demand more, and have your own compactor on site if necessary. They probably wont want you getting in their way, but it's your building, and money.

I spoke with him yesterday. They are good folks, easy to work with, and he said he will be spreading and packing dirt one bucket at a time. I mentioned a compactor and he was all for it if I wanted to do that.

When we had our pool built 6 years ago it was much worse than this. They had to bring in 9 loads of dirt. They packed it with a skid steer, post-holed down to earth in many places, used reinforcing wire. It was very solid, but of course I didn't install a lift on it.

I will likely see how it goes and see what I think about how its done and decide from there. I don't mind spending $75 for on day rental of a compactor if its worth sleeping better at night. Honestly my main concern is installing the lift. Would the lift be more vulnerable if it was installed in an area that wasnt packed as hard and had settled some?

GLTHFJ60 · Dec 14, 2017

Subscribed.

ctfortner · Jan 5, 2018

Well it has been a bit since I updated...between the contractor getting the flu for a week, then the holidays hit, and now its frigid temps (even here in W. TN), so it has been slow going. All of the trusses are now on, except 1. Much of the framing is done, and should be competed today. We have brought in 7 loads of dirt so far :willy_nil