40x60 Shop Build - First Steps

[AuroraSC]

40x60x14 Motorsports Shop Build

Good Morning GJ'ers,

Long time member and oogler.

As my auto obsession and collection has continued to increase, I've finally decided I need to get serious about creating a home shop to store and play with all these toys/projects.

I've laid out my intentions in 3D CAD which I will share below.

The purpose of the post is to get some feedback from those that have gone through this, and likely had to make some of the decisions I will soon be facing. As an engineer I know there are plenty of "unknown unknowns". I appreciate any input.

Current Plans:
Buy or Build: Leaning towards building myself
Size: 40x60x 12 or 14 (Needs to be tall enough for 2-post and overhead doors)
Construction: Wood (Pole Barn)
Overhead Doors: 12x12 - 2x in Front Gable and 1x in Rear Gable
Man Doors: 1x near front of building on long side facing house
Insulation: No research yet. I did most of the house with foam, but I don't know if that is cost effective in this situation
Electrical: Run from house, little planning thus far
Plumbing: Run from house, little planning thus far
Unknown Unknowns: Likely quite a few

Now for some pictures

 

[OneOfEm]

I'm in the middle of a self-built 44x50 pole barn construction workshop. Here are some thoughts, in no particular order:

- Check permitting requirements first. I spent some time designing what I wanted in SketchUp, but that ended up being a bit premature.

- Be very open to renting equipment if you are doing it yourself. Don't dig a trench by hand if you can rent a ditch witch. Rent an auger for the posts, etc. It's hard enough with the machines, don't make it harder than it needs to be.

- Hire a concrete finishing crew to do the slab pour/finishing vs. doing that part by yourself. The guys I hired worked from about 8:30am until around 4:30pm before taking a short break to eat, then finally finished at around 7:20pm. There is NO WAY I could have worked as quickly as they did during the pour, and with a slab this big, speed matters. The guy I hired was a referral from a contractor who is a client of my wife's business. The good ones stay busy, so YMMV.

- If you end up doing the build yourself, pace yourself. There will be times when you have to hit a deadline and have to work every day, and others where the timing is more flexible. Take a day or weekend off, even if rarely. Do it for your wife/family if not yourself.

- 100 amp service is probably overkill. You're building a 2400SF shop, so sometimes overkill is appropriate.

- You'll read/hear lots of opinions (stick-build vs pole; go bigger; go taller; bigger doors; more power vs less power; how to finish the interior; etc.), but it's your shop and your budget. Do what will make you happy.​

 

[zmotorsports]

Nice looking design and thought into it.

I also recommend checking with code prior to getting too deep into process as around here pole buildings are not allowed in some areas.

That being said, I would recommend 14' tall ceilings over the 12' especially with a two-post lift.

Secondly depending on what kind of equipment you are looking to have in the shop I would suggest going 200-amp service over the 100-amp.

Subscribed.

Mike

 

[Radix2]

How will it fit in with your house? and neighborhood? That is a good size and quite close, it makes sense to me to make some priority to build in a way that works as a whole. You can add detail that can enhance the overall design without huge costs.

Thats a big blank metal wall to have dominating your backyard...

 

[ard]

You've got some interesting roof lines on the home. Would be nice to stick build a garage/shop that uses some of those visual cues and roof lines to make it look like it belongs there.... Just saying.


Edit: composed and posted while radix was posting...

 

[AuroraSC]

My home is in an mid to upscale rural-esque area (1800sqft min and full masonry). I'm one of only a few left that don't have a building in their backyard. A neighbor a few houses down has a building that will swallow an 18-wheeler with the cab attached to give you some perspective.

I had initially intended to rotate the building 90° with several doors on the long wall but it becomes very overpowering very quickly. Thus, I think I've talked myself into the current orientation. I'm not set in stone on anything yet, but I think I'm pretty close.

I'll try to upload a picture from my patio in the back where I've roughly positioned the four corners as laid out in the images above. One requirement that I've been told is that I have a 15' minimum easement from my neighbor to the North's property line (luckily there is just a pasture to my South.

 

[johnnyradiant]

Easement or setback? That is all the more reason to not spend too much more time on your plan until you find out where and what you are entitled to do.

14' ceiling and I too like the idea of giving your roof line some character to curb aesthetics and to take away some of the over bearing a big box with simple pitched roof.

Not sure what your projects include but if they include wood I would want to create a separate woodworking shop either stand alone or shop within a shop in such away as to not have all that sawdust on everything else.

I'm looking to sell and move on. New shop space will be bigger and I will maintain separated shops. Depending on our landing spot I may look at a large divided shop. Right now I have two shops side by side sharing a common wall and that works good for me but not the wife and yard -what yard?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[matt_i]

As a person who has "almost finished" a build-it-myself, it takes longer than you would think. Its good to have someone to help, my Dad has helped all of the way as he enjoys the process too. I learned an incredible amount along the way.

I bought some new tools to use on the build to make my life easier, best purchase was a rotary laser level with a sensor. Next best was buying a used Tapco trim/siding brake for bending metal trim, I could have rented that but I would have been renting it for many weekends in a row. Buying it allowed me to work at my own pace and think things thru. I also got an impact driver, which was used on all phases of the build.

At some point it becomes more of a mental challenge than a physical challenge. Energy can wane seasonally, or because of other tasks in your life which are consuming your energy.

So would i do it again, yes, planning another one for my brother for next year, although maybe with some "time savers"

 

[AuroraSC]

Most of my projects are automotive in nature. That being said, metal fabrication will be a close secondary. I don't have any woodworking tools to speak of. The most immediate need is space to put the several projects that I have gotten myself into and my 3-1/2 car wont quite sustain any longer. And of course, after using a lift I've gotta have one.

I gave the county building folks a call earlier and I just need to fill out a form and sketch out what I have planned to acquire the permit and pay for inspections. She agreed that the 15' setback would be a good minimum to use.

I'm interested to hear the styling upgrades you all have found to be valuable. My godfather has a 50x60 and added brick around the bottom as well as a wrap around shingles porch on the front and part of one long side.

 

[rattle_snake]

What is your budget?
Exterior material? Wood? T111? plus masonry like home?
As stated, if you build yourself it may take years.
If you have trailers the approach may be an issue

Your engineering mind should be overwhelmed by unknowns. That is normal until the building is 'completely done', should that state be possible. Good luck.

What are the toys?

 

[matt_i]

I'm interested to hear the styling upgrades you all have found to be valuable. My godfather has a 50x60 and added brick around the bottom as well as a wrap around shingles porch on the front and part of one long side.

I would say the simplest advice is to match your house in materials and decor and colors as closely as possible. That's probably not the low-cost point though.

I also like a building with overhangs, again, take scale cues from your house. Functionally one that has near zero overhang will work just fine, but I think its more visually appealing.

Back to your insulation question, I was thinking building with bookshelf girts at a vertical spacing which matches the insulation available (likely 16" oc or 24" oc) would be easy to insulate, but I would do ply or osb sheathing then.

 

[6768rogues]

I cleaned up my site every day, to the extent that I could keep mowing the grass inside the building until it was built, then I dug it out with my Bobcat. It makes a nice place to work, you are not working in a mudhole, and things don't get lost.

 

[AuroraSC]

What is your budget?
Exterior material? Wood? T111? plus masonry like home?
As stated, if you build yourself it may take years.
If you have trailers the approach may be an issue

Your engineering mind should be overwhelmed by unknowns. That is normal until the building is 'completely done', should that state be possible. Good luck.

What are the toys?

The plan was just corrugated steel as normally seen. I'm not quite up on the lingo yet. I did like the 3ft tall two tone option that they seem to refer to as wainscoting. I also thought about just doing brick 3ft high, but this is currently not a trade I'm familiar enough with to take on.

I'm hoping the two doors in front and one in the back will allow for a potential drive through situation and thus alleviating the long back in situation.

I've currently got 5.5 cars to myself. The gf has 2, but only one is at the house.

Vehicle List:
07 BMW 335i - Daily
99 Jeep Cherokee - Offroad Rig/Winter Beater (In Process)
02 Subaru WRX Wagon - Beater
95 Mazda Miata - Turbo racecar build (In Process)
01 Mazda Miata - Recent aquisition. Cheap fun track/autox toy with a friend.
13 Subaru STI - Soon to be finding a new home

 

[rburke65]

100Amp should be fine by I wish I would have gone with a 30 circuit panel. Wider overhangs and a steeper...8/12 ....pitch roof make a BIG difference in apperence. A cupola or two also adds to the eye. Deff. a 14' ceiling and not 12'. Porch roof over the side door. And yes on the differen color on the wainscoting than the upper. This also adds to break up the size of the building.....it will look pretty big at first! Good luck.

 

[blair683]

Your frost line is only like 14" so you could easily get your 14' wall out of 16' 6"x6"s. I just built a 27' x 30' by myself and it took me 5 months. That's with having a full time job and a family. The only thing I contracted out was the concrete so far. A lot of these lumber yards want you to go cheap on everything. They will want you to do 4"x6" posts and atleast 4' centers on trusses. I went with 6"x6" posts and 24" centers on the trusses. I would also consider a gable overhang as well as an overhang at the eaves.

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

That sounds like an awesome project. If you order the steel with the 2 tone for now, you could remove it later and do the brick. Fake is not a big deal but real brick would need a solid ledge to sit on. That should be in the original engineering. Electric is always a big discussion. You need to look into your future and plan accordingly. 100 Amp will be fine until you get carried away and get bigger and better and more power hungry. At least run a 2" conduit and use a large panel box like a 40 pos. 200 Amp rated. Later you can upgrade very easily if you need to. I agree with a porch that goes around the corner. Doesn't need to be big but becomes a nice focal point. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Riley]

Looks like a great project. Personally, I'd do the rotation and move it back on the lot. Move it a bit further in from the property side line so you can put a trailer next to it and not have to look at it all the time.

Extend the eves or put a cover in front over the part of the pad. You'll have a place to hang out or throw parties that won't tear up the house. You'd also be able to check out the house from it. You gain some hail protection and, late night wrenching won't disturb the Missus, if she's not out there with you.

If for nothing else, resale down the road. Would you have bought the place with a 2400 sq ft building next to the patio?

Ok, Ok, ok "we" would have, but would any one else? If you scale it right it won't even look that big from across the yard.

In fact, you could buy some landscape marking paint and lay it out on the ground, fab up something to represent the wall height in a couple of locations on the side and live with it a few days to see how you like it. After a few days try a different location or even wall height to make sure it's suitable before you jump into it. Easy and cheap visualization aids.

See this thread for reference:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338743&page=5

 

[OH_Varmntr]

My advice is to put a 200 amp service in the first time. That way if your load expectations are exceeded in the future you're already covered. We only had a 200 amp site service and I'm in the process of getting a new 400 amp underground service installed that is split between my house and shop.

As stated above, definitely get your zoning requirements figured out first. I did it backwards and had everything designed before I had my zoning figured out. Ended up having to apply for a variance to change my property line setback to fit a 48' wide building. Originally I planned a 54' wide building but a 48' wide building is all I could sandwich between septic system components and property lines even after the variance was approved.

Get your layout figured out before you order your materials. Post a thread here with your layout ideas and get input from others and you'll be surprised at how your layout may evolve from your original idea. This will allow you to place doors and finish your concrete depending on if you need a flat floor for office area and sloped areas for floor drains, etc...

 

[AuroraSC]

Update:

Work has been crazy, and the recent Miata aquisition maintenance/upgrades have been in full swing.

New shocks, fluids, ball joints and an exhaust I fab'd up have been completed in the last few days.

Electrical: I have (2) 225A boxes in the existing home garage #winning

I still need to get a basic idea of what I want to do for this.

After reading some of the realistic times its taken some of you to complete construction I'm starting to think I may need to pony up and pay someone who does this for a living. As much as this makes me cringe, I need a solution sooner rather than later and if they can put it up in a week it will save me from drowing in another project.

Sizing: I got a quote from one of the prominent builders nearby which went as follows

40x60x10 w/ 4" concrete incl rebar - $25,000 (includes one 10x10 door and one man door)
14ft Wall - $3,500
12x12 OHD - $1,250/ea x 3 = $3,750
10x10 OHD Credit - (-$650)
Fiberglass Insulation - $4,200
or
Foam Insulation - $6,000
Wainscotting - $1,200

Grand Total (w/ Foam) ~ $39,000

Things I Would Still Need:
Driveway (Concrete or Gravel) ~ 1,200 - 1,500 sqft
Electrical
Plumbing
2-Post Lift

My takeaways from this:

I figure that I've got about 10k in the "Still Need" category so now I'm approching $50k in what I'll call essentials which is getting a little scary for me budget wise.

Should I consider just doing a 40x40 and then adding in 20-40' later if/when I require more room? This particular builder starts off at $17,000 (instead of $25,000) for that size which is an instant savings of $8k. Using a 75% multiplier to the sqft related items its bring the difference close to 10k overall which gets me closer to a comfortable range.

Also, for the $1,200 wainscotting pricing should I just nix that and do masonary instead later on? The internet tells me to figure somewhere between $7-10/sqft for masonry services.

I purchased some stakes from the Lowes and as I finish this message, I'm going to go drive some in the ground and start a physical layout of the shop possibilities.

 

[robmartinson]

I'll chime in quickly on this regarding a few things. I need to put together my own build thread and may do so in the next few days but just to start....

My personal opinion is you should build your infrastructure bigger/better than you think you need up front to save costs, headache and "shoulda, woulda, coulda" later. I will also say that you should figure the project will be 1.5-2x over your initial thoughts as far as budget. I know a lot of people on GJ have been able to build some pretty amazing shops for what I would consider to be inexpensive. Obviously the more you do yourself, the better and if you look at it as a long term fun project and enjoy the process instead of trying to rush to the end, you'll be much happier.

I'm currently 2 years into a 40x60x14 build. Granted, I went through a divorce in the middle of that window (not due to the shop!) so things were put on hold for about a year. I'm probably about $120k into the project at this point. When I create a build thread I may post and update the full budget as I think it's immensely useful for others. I spent a lot of time before hand planning and reading tons of threads here on GJ trying to get a solid idea of costs.

A couple bullet points related to your build:

I went with a 6" floor with rebar throughout because I want a hoist but also wanted to put some heavier machining equipment in the shop.

I also elected for 400 amp buried service split to two 200 amp main panels and a 100 amp sub panel for upstairs. I also will be doing some solar to run a few circuits (no grid tie in) and will also be running a rotary phase converter for 3 phase capabilities. One of the main panels will run all of the main building loads (lights, shop and upstairs hvac, fans, water heater, etc). The second panel is for shop loads (hoist, welder, machining equipment, etc)

Anyway, it's a super fun process. I'll keep an eye on your build. Love seeing others go through it all.



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[AuroraSC]

Small Update:

Did some preliminary layouts yesterday.

 

[lakeroadster]

Got any elevation views of the barn with the house?

I'm a fan of pole barns.. but building it that close to your home I'm envisioning it will look like a pole barn lot with a house as an outbuilding.

Especially with the low pitch trusses without any overhang at the gable and soffit.

Are you planning on dressing out the front of the barn to match the house, using similar materials and colors?

 

[AuroraSC]

Here is a front elevation view approximately in the location I would be anticipating.

I'd like to do some dress-up items, but I'm still at a higher level view of the project trying to decide sizing and location.

As I had mentioned before, I'd like to consider doing a 3ft brick belt around the perimeter on the front and sides that would match the brick on the house. I may forgo the wainscottting and put that money towards the brick now or in the upcoming.

The overhang patio on the wall near the house might be a good addition, but I'm afraid it may be outside the budget at the moment.

 

[lakeroadster]

That's an awesome home.

Our last place was similar. I designed the outbuilding and made it to compliment the house, similar roof design and facade.

Really helps a lot with curb appeal.

 

[ard]

Small Update:

Did some preliminary layouts yesterday.

Congrats! I believe that counts as "breaking ground"

 

[rburke65]

I don't think the $39k figure is all that rediculous.

 

[Jmatlock88]

Owasso here.

I helped build my next door neighbor's pole barn. At 90% through the framing, we realized that purchasing the remaining materials at a consumer level nearly offset the cost of paying a "mom and pop" company build the whole thing (seriously). The commercial guys get some great deals from Newell Wood Products and the like.

You're not going to get a great deal going with the top tier builder(s), but there are plenty of honest people out here that build a great pole barn. I'll PM you with the guys my neighbor used.

 

[AuroraSC]

I didn't get a chance to do much on this yesterday aside from putting in a few phone calls.

I'm still flip flopping between DIY and pay someone to do it. One of the owners at work is pushing me to go for it and has offered his help for some of the heavy lifting. After several hours of YouTube videos of course it doesn't look unbearable but it does look like quite a bit of work.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the company who build my neighbors who I would likely put into the "mom and pop" category over the top tier.

I did get a quote on doors which was nice. It sounds like 12x12's run about $1,000/ea whereas a 10x12 would be $700-800. Openers seem be consistently $500 installed.

Jmatlock - I'll give your guys a call and see what they have to say. Thanks for the reference!

How much do I need to be worried about that tree that (length depending) may be either close or right in the middle of the building. I've been told that the tree and root ball have to be pulled up which I can only imagine is no small feat.

 

[AuroraSC]

I was able to get in touch with the builder of my neighbors shop yesterday. We met at the house last night and talked it over a bit. His pricing seems more competitive than some of the others I've spoken to, although still a good chunk of money.

The basic shop looks like it's going to be about 35k before dirt work and tree removal. I got a ballpark quote on the tree and its not going to be bad, but I am a bit scared of the pricing of the dirt work. I'm thinking I'm going to need 8-10 loads to level the area up.

Now to decide on colors! I definitely want the wainscotting and he uses the Valspar colors. I really like the charcoal, and also like the burnished slate and gray. I also want to have a couple high windows for natural light. Any recomendations?

I need to start nailing down the electrical and plumbing as well. Anything I need to make sure I consider? Definitely a sink and maybe a toilet (not sure how it would route back into the anaerobic tank).

 

[lakeroadster]

Picking a Pole Building Contractor

 

[cagullett1]

Curious why the pole barn vs steel building? I'm in North Texas, and pole barns are almost non-existent. From what I've collected, it's due to how expansive the soil is.

 

[AuroraSC]

Curious why the pole barn vs steel building? I'm in North Texas, and pole barns are almost non-existent. From what I've collected, it's due to how expansive the soil is.

Mostly cost. Pole barns are much more prevalent in my area and there is much more competition. Full steel construction is often used in industrial and commercial areas though.

 

[AuroraSC]

Working on locating the windows and beginning the shop layout today.

3x 4'x2' windows shown (each side)

3x 12x12 doors shown with passthrough possible on the right

3' man door shown near sink

Lift, toolboxes, workbench and sink at the front

Vehicles and misc storage on left

Mig, Tig, Plasma with a table at the rear.

 

[60 weight]

Well Here's my .02.That close to my house I would bring walls down to 12' with scissor trust which will clear the lift from a foot from edge of wall and continue to rise.Your lift will most likely be 6-8 ft from any wall.I have two post lift and from bottom to top plate is 12'1" so you'll have clearance for the lift and a little more.I can put a lifted crew cab duramax up all the way.This will cut your cost down on lumber and metal considerably.Second thing I'd do is have roll insulation installed under roof metal this will help on noise (rain),condensation (sweat) and heat from sun on metal.This is something I would not want to go back and do later and hardly any additional labor cost at construction.Third I'd have someone build the shop since you need it done,there will be plenty you can do once it's up,bathroom,wall insulation (if desired),counters,cabinets,lights,air compressor and lift installation and on and on.These things you and get help from buddies when needed without wearing out your friendship,and yes they take a lot of time also.good luck with your final decision.

 

[AuroraSC]

I started talking to plumbing and electric on Friday to see what information they would need. Hopefully working on setting up a good layout this week. I'll post what I've got so far here in a bit.

Also did some rough measurements for dirt requirements. It looks like I'm going to need at least 10-15 loads of dirt to raise the pad up 1ft and then level out the back end. Who knew earth could be so expensive..?

 

[zmotorsports]

That's an awesome home.

Our last place was similar. I designed the outbuilding and made it to compliment the house, similar roof design and facade.

Really helps a lot with curb appeal.

Nice looking garage, and I agree about making it match the house for curb appeal.

When we were looking to move I was trying to keep costs down and contemplated on a pole building with metal siding and roof but the wife put her foot down and said she wanted it to match the house exactly. Now that it is done I am glad she did as we are much happier with it and grin every time we pull in the driveway.

Mike

 

[AuroraSC]

Nice looking garage, and I agree about making it match the house for curb appeal.

When we were looking to move I was trying to keep costs down and contemplated on a pole building with metal siding and roof but the wife put her foot down and said she wanted it to match the house exactly. Now that it is done I am glad she did as we are much happier with it and grin every time we pull in the driveway.

Mike

Thanks Mike,

I'm really trying to just focus on the getting the structure up and worry about the aesthetics and amenities as time and money allows. I do agree that adding some curb appeal would be a nice touch to be more of a compliment to the home than an eyesore. With that being said, none of the other homes in my edition have invested much in that so this won't look out of place or anything.

The tree that was in the way was fallen and ground down sufficiently yesterday. Working on getting dirt in and finding a good tractor man to spread it around for me.

Electrical and plumbing are also on my mind. I need to figure out what needs to go in the pad pretty soon and where I need to add concrete for at least one and possibly two auto lifts.

A layout I messed with yesterday that added a room for the sink, stool, and shower.

 

[AuroraSC]

Hoping to get some dirt on the property this week. The trucking company has been very busy as of late.

Still finalizing the layout, but I'm really liking this one.

I ordered (6) 2x6 windows on Friday for the long walls. A google search of colors also ran me into a building with a small patio/overhang. I'm talking with the builder to get a price and see if it's worth it.

 

[ASHMAN_AZ]

I like the layout, two doors on front and one in the back, My basic plans 45x60 are the same but I want wider 18ft front doors, 12ft can seam small for larger longer vehicles like RVs and trailers. Im also planning a mezzanine across the back walls so want taller ceilings 16ft.

 

[wisconsin hillrod]

I like the layout, two doors on front and one in the back, My basic plans 45x60 are the same but I want wider 18ft front doors, 12ft can seam small for larger longer vehicles like RVs and trailers. Im also planning a mezzanine across the back walls so want taller ceilings 16ft.

+1 on 18' doors. Or at least do a 18' on the left that would give you the option to park cars side by side on that side of the shop if you concentrated tools/benches behind your two post(s). I feel like there is a lot of wasted space in your drawings which you may regret later. The 18' door(s) would give you options in the future. That's what I did and I am quite pleased with it. It also makes backing trailers in really easy even with my 90 degree turn from the driveway.

BTW, subscribed.

-Hillrod