40x60x14 Stick built Ohio advice / help!

[Mcfire12]

Hi all,

I have been reading posts for months! We just finished purchasing 2.5 acres of ground in northwest Ohio and are now planning our shed. The current plan is to put the shed up in the spring of 2023 and the house will go up in the spring of 2024. We have zero clue what the budget for the shed will be, but the wife wants me to be happy with it forever so we can definitely splurge.

I'm completely overwhelmed at this point. The shed will sit behind the house and will have a 12' lean to on the west side of it.

I'm looking for ideas, suggestions, and thoughts. I attempted to draw out what's in my head with a 2D software but quickly found it will not plot all the measurements I wanted it to. I will be drawing it with help in CAD this week.

Can you guys help my fast forward this project?

Things I know I want.
1.) Large enough door to back our camper in to work on it. 20x12?
2.) Full insulated with a propane forced air heater in one of the corners.
3.) Completely finished with metal inside and out.
4.) A rear are for lawn equipment and golf cart storage with a separate 9x7? overhead door. This section will be closed off with a 10 foot sliding door? Ideas?
5.) Bathroom.
6.) Mechanical room for water softener and RO system for the future house will be behind the bathroom. (I do not want to lug salt bags down stairs in the house)
7.) Thinking propane tank to the north of the shed.

 

[Sportsman762]

Is a 14' building a negotiable factor? Your current camper might fit in a 12' door, however many campers are closer to 13' to the top of the a/c, a 16' door will let you have room for further expansion.

Menards has a nice pole building designer that will let you layout the exterior of the building and give you dimensions, along with a material cost for a very basic pole barn.

https://midwest.menards.com/postframe-web/redirect.do#/home

How good are you at backing? A 20' wide door is easy to get in, I would not go any smaller than a 12' door to back a trailer in unless your good. I figure that a 16' wide open area makes a good work space. If you have stuff around it add more room. 16' wide gives you 4' on each side of a 8' trailer or truck and that generally is enough room to get around mirrors and use a floor jack.

For the rear work area go with at least a 8' tall door, I would probably go with a 10'Wx8'H or 8'x8' door as it would let you easily repurpose it for a car, truck or something else, going a little large is better than being too small. These doors are also standard size so they are more reasonably priced.

Make sure you put in the water line to the future house site before cementing in the floor. It ***** having to tear up a new floor to put in water lines. In a past life, I worked for a well driller. Some houses we would dig in a water line to 5' or 6' out of the house, then put a pit with the roll of pipe in it and cover it with plywood and surround with fence for safety. Once the well was dug we would finish the trench and unreel the line. This kept us from having to make an underground splice. Run conduit for the well wires at the same time.

 

[yeldogt]

are you getting any design help with this whole project .... land site layout ..... house design ?

 

[Mcfire12]

are you getting any design help with this whole project .... land site layout ..... house design ?

I have the general contractor helping. He did an initial site layout, and will help with house design. I have attached the first drawing, but it's changed now as we are adding a 1/2 acre pond. He is on vacation and has not drawn that out yet. I am attempting to add the picture

 

[Mcfire12]

Is a 14' building a negotiable factor? Your current camper might fit in a 12' door, however many campers are closer to 13' to the top of the a/c, a 16' door will let you have room for further expansion.

Menards has a nice pole building designer that will let you layout the exterior of the building and give you dimensions, along with a material cost for a very basic pole barn.

https://midwest.menards.com/postframe-web/redirect.do#/home

How good are you at backing? A 20' wide door is easy to get in, I would not go any smaller than a 12' door to back a trailer in unless your good. I figure that a 16' wide open area makes a good work space. If you have stuff around it add more room. 16' wide gives you 4' on each side of a 8' trailer or truck and that generally is enough room to get around mirrors and use a floor jack.

For the rear work area go with at least a 8' tall door, I would probably go with a 10'Wx8'H or 8'x8' door as it would let you easily repurpose it for a car, truck or something else, going a little large is better than being too small. These doors are also standard size so they are more reasonably priced.

Make sure you put in the water line to the future house site before cementing in the floor. It ***** having to tear up a new floor to put in water lines. In a past life, I worked for a well driller. Some houses we would dig in a water line to 5' or 6' out of the house, then put a pit with the roll of pipe in it and cover it with plywood and surround with fence for safety. Once the well was dug we would finish the trench and unreel the line. This kept us from having to make an underground splice. Run conduit for the well wires at the same time.

14' was just used so I could fit the 12' high door. I did not mention in the original post, but I would like to add a mezzanine above the back section.

I will definitely check out the Menards builder!!

Definitely want to keep the 20' door in the front, it just makes too much sense to me.

Is an 8x8 a standard size? I would like to put a door opener on this one just for ease of not getting on and off the mower to Oper the door.

Great call on the water line, I am going to be working through that with my buddy who does plumbing!

 

[Mcfire12]

Hi all,

I have been reading posts for months! We just finished purchasing 2.5 acres of ground in northwest Ohio and are now planning our shed. The current plan is to put the shed up in the spring of 2023 and the house will go up in the spring of 2024. We have zero clue what the budget for the shed will be, but the wife wants me to be happy with it forever so we can definitely splurge.

I'm completely overwhelmed at this point. The shed will sit behind the house and will have a 12' lean to on the west side of it.

I'm looking for ideas, suggestions, and thoughts. I attempted to draw out what's in my head with a 2D software but quickly found it will not plot all the measurements I wanted it to. I will be drawing it with help in CAD this week.

Can you guys help my fast forward this project?

Things I know I want.
1.) Large enough door to back our camper in to work on it. 20x12?
2.) Full insulated with a propane forced air heater in one of the corners.
3.) Completely finished with metal inside and out.
4.) A rear are for lawn equipment and golf cart storage with a separate 9x7? overhead door. This section will be closed off with a 10 foot sliding door? Ideas?
5.) Bathroom.
6.) Mechanical room for water softener and RO system for the future house will be behind the bathroom. (I do not want to lug salt bags down stairs in the house)
7.) Thinking propane tank to the north of the shed.

8.) Mezzanine above the entire back section for storage.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Door for camper: how big is the camper ? Striping the floor can make it easier to get backed in straight.

What is the lean to for ? Can you enclose part of it for the lawn equipment ?

I'd suggest bathroom and mechanical room be really close or back to back.

 

[Mcfire12]

Door for camper: how big is the camper ? Striping the floor can make it easier to get backed in straight.

What is the lean to for ? Can you enclose part of it for the lawn equipment ?

I'd suggest bathroom and mechanical room be really close or back to back.

Camper is only 30 feet. Plan on pouring concrete on the east side of the shed for it to sit. During the winter it will be in my brother in laws 100x80 building. I only want to be able to do wheel bearings and brakes and stuff on it backed into the shed. It will never get stored in there.

Lean to is just a porch on the east side to put some tables and chairs on as well as grills and smokers. I guess now that you bring it up, 60' long seems like way too much for the lean to. Suggestions on how long to make it? Maybe I should be calling it a porch instead of a lean to?

Bathroom and mechanical are back to back! Thanks for the input!

 

[NUTTSGT]

Camper is only 30 feet. Plan on pouring concrete on the east side of the shed for it to sit. During the winter it will be in my brother in laws 100x80 building. I only want to be able to do wheel bearings and brakes and stuff on it backed into the shed. It will never get stored in there.

Lean to is just a porch on the east side to put some tables and chairs on as well as grills and smokers. I guess now that you bring it up, 60' long seems like way too much for the lean to. Suggestions on how long to make it? Maybe I should be calling it a porch instead of a lean to?

Bathroom and mechanical are back to back! Thanks for the input!

If the camper is only going to be there and inside for maintenance work, outside the rest of the time and stored else where during the winter, why make the bldg big enough to put it inside ?

Just make the lean-to big enough for it to fit under. Wide enough to get around each side and long enough to cover it. If it's on the leeward side (probably east side) it'll be covered and out of most of the weather.
Put a smaller door in and there's the space the space you wanted for the lawn equipment.

60' - 30' for entertaining=30' for camper.

 

[Mcfire12]

If the camper is only going to be there and inside for maintenance work, outside the rest of the time and stored else where during the winter, why make the bldg big enough to put it inside ?

Just make the lean-to big enough for it to fit under. Wide enough to get around each side and long enough to cover it. If it's on the leeward side (probably east side) it'll be covered and out of most of the weather.
Put a smaller door in and there's the space the space you wanted for the lawn equipment.

60' - 30' for entertaining=30' for camper.

Interesting view. Am I going completely crazy wanting a 12' high door? Do I need to think about scaling it down and not being able to back a camper inside? Are you suggesting this just due to cost?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Interesting view. Am I going completely crazy wanting a 12' high door? Do I need to think about scaling it down and not being able to back a camper inside? Are you suggesting this just due to cost?

Just looking outside the box.


You're looking at building it to accommodate a camper that will rarely if ever see the inside of it. I'm asking why you want to make it that big or why spend the extra cash to do so ?

Just trying to snap you out of a thought pattern you may or may not be stuck in. Step back, think about your design and why you're doing it that way.


Don't get me wrong, your money, build it how you want. However, she wants it to be a "forever" design, maybe you should accommodate the camper.. . your "winter" storage could fall through a few years from now or you may decide to sell the camper next year.

 

[billconner]

Plant trees asap. And orient porch - entertainment and socializing area I think? - for best use of sun and views. With lots of trees.

 

[TurnipTruck]

My stick-built 40x60x14 w/ 12’ lean-to on one side sounds very close to what you are wanting: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-blizzard-build-40x60.491553/

 

[yeldogt]

I have the general contractor helping. He did an initial site layout, and will help with house design. I have attached the first drawing, but it's changed now as we are adding a 1/2 acre pond. He is on vacation and has not drawn that out yet. I am attempting to add the picture

Getting the proper advise early on in a project is money well spent .... some generals have a eye (most don't). Good design and site placement pays dividends.

 

[Mcfire12]

My stick-built 40x60x14 w/ 12’ lean-to on one side sounds very close to what you are wanting: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-blizzard-build-40x60.491553/

That is one hell of a build!! Thank you for documenting so much of the process!!

 

[JoeMcGov]

Before you go much further you need to determine how you're going to set the grades (finished floor elevation for the shop, the house) to properly manage rain water.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Years ago, I stick built my own 24 by 50 shop. You can complete a design using only 2-d drawings (I used graph paper). However, you need to think in terms of floor plan (for each floor) and elevation drawing for each of the 4 sides. Preparing these drawings is essential to obtain accurate materials quote. Based on what you have said so far, I think your materials cost will exceed $60,000. You haven't addressed what your budget is. Beware the advertised building prices. Several years after building the shop, we built a 1200 square foot barn. Advertised price on the barn was about $6000. After adding concrete slab for most of the building, running water and power to the building, and internal electric wiring, prepping the pad, and a few other items, the price tripled. Good luck with your build

 

[Ohio Auto]

First things first ... let's stop calling it a shed.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I would use something like this Wick Building designer to get it layed out.

Design 3D™ - Wick Buildings, Inc.

www.wickbuildings.com

From that you GC can make his plans.

 

[billconner]

If you or your GC is buying a post frame kit or package, it could make sense to work with them as standards seem to vary. I like Hansen Pole Buildings for a number of reasons, but their standard pole spacing is 12', and even if not able to adjust size to optimize that, door and window placement and perhaps we some other features might be more economical if it fit the vendor's standards. Just a thought.

 

[Mcfire12]

Just want to keep this thread updated. We have decided to take the advice of JoeMcGov about grading. My buddy put his shed up last year and began the house this year and had some grading issues.

I believe we need to attack the septic system before we move forward as the location of this will set the grade for the remainder of the projects.

Keep the advice coming please!

​

 

[scofo]

I believe we need to attack the septic system before we move forward as the location of this will set the grade for the remainder of the projects.

​

Sounds like a good plan. Maybe add a temporary fence to keep heavy equipment off your tank and fields

 

[Mcfire12]

Updating. I had the GC on site this week as well as the health department and soil scientist and have began working with our septic designer.

The GC essentially said to fence off the septic site and proceed with the shed / building. Still not sure what to call it, shed is the general term used in our area. As long as the GC is involved with any elevation work we should be good.

I sent the shed plan to both builders I am considering and I am just waiting to hear back with a quote. Some notes for the shed. I am having the builder quote finishing the inside with metal as well.

20'x12' insulated main door.
12” soffit
4’w x 3’ tall slider windows
10’ sliding interior door
Mezzanine 15x40 will be 5’ high
2 long trough drains
Trusses 4’ OC
Perling 2’ OC
Walls 24” OC 2x6
Porch 45' long 12' overhang

 

[Mcfire12]

Quote just came in at $115k. This is concrete, 12x45' overhang, no electrical, no insulation. Building the loft inside is included as well as framing out the bathroom.

 

[billconner]

Seems reasonable for the times. $80 /sf - less if counting mezz.

 

[NUTTSGT]

$115K, wow a lot of cash for an Ohio build and not being in Cleve, Cbus or Cincy.

I'll be waiting on build pics.

 

[ipgenie]

I have a 12' tall door in my shop. The first camper fit, the second one doesn't so it sits outside all year. I used to store it in a relatives machine shed over the winter but a death in the family brought an end to that.

I'm going to try to cut out the header and put in a 14' tall door in a year or two. 14' is tall enough for any regular road legal trailer to fit under. Of the two big "mistakes" in planning my shop years ago, that door size was one of them.

 

[Mcfire12]

Any insulation suggestions?

 

[ipgenie]

I'm installing polyiso (6.5" walls and 7.5" ceilings) with expanding foam in the gaps to seal it up tight. I'm excited for the great R value but if I had realized how much work and time it would be, I'd have either installed batts or gone with blown in fiberglass. Two of my friends have insulated and sheeted their shops and I'm still working on mine.
Hopefully I can get the walls buttoned up this winter and the interior framing done.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Any insulation suggestions?

2x6 Walls go with R19/21 insulation would be my go to. Spray foam would be nice but most can't do the initial cost.

What I did in my addition (tested on utility room in the house) is fill in the bottom 3 inches of the wall cavity with expanding foam. It will seal up the bottom wall and prevent air from entering the wall cavity at the base. My addition is block and I cut a piece of rigid foam to sit down in the core a few inches. Once done, I used expanding foam to top off the block cores (of those that were not core filled. In case I lose any mortar in joints or get crack, it'll prevent air intrusion coming up through the sill at block level. I used it in conjunction with sill seal.

My trusses are 24" on center and I hung fiberglass batts like normal. Once I was done, I put up 1" foil faced polyiso and taped the joints/plastic cap screws. Then I put up my ribbed metal ceiling.

I also used Zip for sheathing and taped the joints. That helps as well.

 

[dcg9381]

6.) Mechanical room for water softener and RO system for the future house will be behind the bathroom. (I do not want to lug salt bags down stairs in the house)

Because RO lines are usually pretty small, you typically can't have your RO system too far away from point of use. We put our RO system on a high floor, used 1/2 PEX to distribute it to point of use. Don't forget that these waste a lot of water that you can use for other things.. Iike irrigation. We capture the waste water.

Spray foam is the best insulation IMHO, but it also costs more.

 

[TractorJeff]

Make the back door 10 by 10. You honestly never know what is being driven in/out of it at a later date down the road.

 

[Mcfire12]

I'm installing polyiso (6.5" walls and 7.5" ceilings) with expanding foam in the gaps to seal it up tight. I'm excited for the great R value but if I had realized how much work and time it would be, I'd have either installed batts or gone with blown in fiberglass. Two of my friends have insulated and sheeted their shops and I'm still working on mine.
Hopefully I can get the walls buttoned up this winter and the interior framing done.

What expanding foam did you go with?
Did you seal just the top and bottom of the stud bays, or did you do all around the entire cavity?

 

[ipgenie]

My building is a pole barn with girts/perlings on 2' centers.
I'm using the 16lb bottles of Touch and Seal foam to seal all around the gaps. It's worth a few extra bucks to get the application gun with the trigger. I'm about 2/3 done and I love the parts that are done but I never want to do it again.