40x60x17... Speaker Placement

[nsula_country]

Ok. Build is in signature. Have not updated lately. Sorry. Work and work on shop...

Had an old 90s Pioneer 5 CH receiver. Does well. Plays a little louder than the Yamaha R-S202 I just bought. (BLUETOOTH). Bluetooth plays louder than inputs. Cool.

I have 4, 1st gen Pioneer Andrew Jones bookshelf speakers. SP-BS21-LR. Had them a while. Upgraded home system to the same series towers 4 years ago. Good speakers.

Question is... 4 speaker, quadraphonic stereo. 8' high or 12' high in corners???

Any help appreciated. 14-12 GA wire will be used.

CT

 

[nsula_country]

Long wall or short wall for the stereo pairs? (L&R)??? Amp has A & B pairs...

Come on Old School guys!! Quadraphonic is what we grew up on. Just not 2400 sq/ft of tin 20 ft tall!!!

CT

 

[checkthisout]

Make sure the sound will be "centered" where your work area is.

Make sure it's at or below ear level if you're going to be listening to music. If it's just talk radio who cares.

You can't really spread the speakers out around the shop without getting delay issues unless of course your amp has the ability to set delay.

 

[nsula_country]

checkthisout,

Thank you for responding.

The "work" will be "centered" within the 40'x60' space. From one corner to the other. No dedicated listening area. I listen to talk radio in the mornings and evenings while commuting. Working music will be the medium played here. Classic Rock, Rock, Alt Rock, ect...

At or below ear level will not be feasible. Heck, I'm only 5'6"! I'll try to get them closer to 8' than 12'.

Idealy I was thinking in each corner. I understand there may be some delay. I will try to keep the wire lengths as close as possible to minimize the electrical delay. Where I am at any time will affect the acoustic delay.

This receiver is just stereo. It's not like my Yamaha Aventage 7.2 receiver in the house. It has the options to set delay for each speaker or one can use the YPAO microphone to set up.

The $64,000 question is... Left/Right channels on short walls or long walls?

Thanks!

CT

 

[HAP]

Short wall.

 

[nsula_country]

HAP. Thank you. I was leaning on short wall.

Like this?

[L---------------L]
| |
[R--------------R]

CT

 

[dave*99]

checkthisout,


Idealy I was thinking in each corner. I understand there may be some delay. I will try to keep the wire lengths as close as possible to minimize the electrical delay. Where I am at any time will affect the acoustic delay.


CT

The length of wire (in this case) is irrelevant. The audio signal will travel at the speed of light on the wire. The acoustic sound will travel at the speed of sound in air.

 

[dave*99]

HAP. Thank you. I was leaning on short wall.

Like this?

[L---------------L]
| |
[R--------------R]

CT

I think this a fine starting point. Ultimately, it's easy to switch things around at the receiver end should you need to.

 

[nsula_country]

10-4. I'll experiment at 8' and 12'. The channel phasing was the biggest question I had.

CT

 

[checkthisout]

If that's the case then I would go short wall for the l/r channels and put the speakers just above the limit of any shelving or tall vehicles you will have in the shop.

If all the speakers are the same, experimenting with the best sound is as easy as swapping the connections on the back of the stereo.

 

[justsam]

If this is just a stereo amp, than you will not be getting "Quadraphonic", discrete or derived/matrix.

I think I would try just one pair of speakers first. With the size of the environment I suspect you will get too many acoustic issues, phase, reverb, etc. by using multiple speaker pairs.

Will there be any acoustic treatment on the walls?

Sounds like the receiver does have A,B, or A+B, so speaker impedance matching should not be an issue.

 

[rattle_snake]

I suggest temporarily hanging and wiring speakers with the intent to move them if you don't like the result.

A 40,000 cu ft tin box (with parallel walls) is a very difficult environment. Incident/reflection ratio will ****.

If you have no specific listening/working area, then the corners will work fine at any height.

Consider this arrangement;

[L---------------R]
| |
[R---------------L]

My hot tub is wired this way. I didn't like it when I discovered as it isn't symmetrical. My mind just didn't want to accept it as a reasonable solution.
BUT, you get balanced stereo in all 4 middle seats. It works very well except in the exact center (comb effect). When I upgraded all the speakers to R/F marine I left this scheme in place.

 

[g13092]

How about just setting it to mono? It's not like you're critically listening in the shop set up like that.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[nsula_country]

Getting some feed back! Thanks guys!

I know it's only stereo. The quadraphonic statement was an attention getter! I don't think anyone under 30 knows what that even means! "My Porsche has a Quadraphonic Blaupunkt!" Anyone remember that line?

Speakers are all identical. 4 brand new speakers that have been boxed for 4 years. Bought them, then did not use them. I have 250' of 14 ga wire on the way. I can get them setup maybe by next week.

I would like to use all 4. I have 2 setup on the floor now, side by side, and they sound pretty damn good!. The Yamaha is MUCH more neutral than the 1996 Pioneer (Expected). Volume is better than expected too. These speakers are only 84 db sensitivity, 6 ohm.

Receiver is A, B, or A+B. I will have to see if it can be set to mono... May be interesting comparison once all 4 are placed an wired.

The 40,000 cu/ft tin box. Typical thin insulation throughout. White on inside, fiberglass middle, reflective on metal side. 1/2" OSB 8' up walls all the way around. Concrete floor...

CT

 

[rattle_snake]

..The 40,000 cu/ft tin box. Typical thin insulation throughout. White on inside, fiberglass middle, reflective on metal side. 1/2" OSB 8' up walls all the way around. Concrete floor...

CT

The insulation and OSB will help significantly but that's still a big space. I think the low end response will be minimal at best. Not sure if you care.

Looks like they have 4 or 5" woofer. Interesting read:
http://noaudiophile.com/Pioneer_BS-21/

 

[nsula_country]

rattle_snake

The insulation and OSB are definitely helping. Low end response is better than I expected for the small size of the drivers. Port tubes firing into a corner help give the perception of bass. Won't know until I get all 4 set in the corners.

I have read this guys post before. Its pretty harsh and not 100% accurate. Most other sites review them much better. The author doesn't seem that credible. I have had credible experience with most of the 1st Gen Pioneer A. Jones speakers.

The 2nd gen BS-22 are supposedly even better. But I like them for what they are and beat out many speakers over twice their price. The 21,41,51 series are discontinued. The current models are the 22,42,52.

I almost bought the BS-41's but settled on 4 of the BS-21's for the original application in my den as the satellites and a SP-C21 center channel (huge speaker). See reference in pic. The center channel is sitting on top of a full chassis Yamaha Aventage RX-A830 or A840... Don't remember.

Living room has the FS-51's (tower version) as the mains with a SP-C21 center channel. Had them going for 4 years strong. Even the wife approves. The "entertainment center" was one of her Pinterest ideas. 2x6's, pipe *******, pipe flanges, and metal castors. I have to admit, it turned out well. For size comparison, the FS-51's are flanking a 60" TV. The sub is a cheap $100 Acoustic Audio HD-SUB 10 that surprised me for what it is (Chineese).

The living room 2.1 setup... Living room, kitchen, and dining room is one, big, open, room with 10' ceilings. Not the best area for acoustics. Thought about adding rear satellites, no need. The shop acoustics are equally non optimal...



Overall for the money, the Pioneer A. Jones line is a good value for the average "pro-sumer" needs... Like a shop!

CT

 

[nsula_country]

I have 2 "neighbor hater" 3way, 12" driver floor speakers... From college days with the 120w x 2 Pioneer amp of 1996...Mix one pair those, 1 pair bookshelves?

Or 2 pair bookshelves, parallel, paired in opposite corners. 12" 3 ways in the other. One CH A, One CH B... Run it A+B???

Thoughts?

CT

 

[Barnabas]

Use two speakers. Using two Left speakers and two Right speakers spread apart will cause some funky phase issues. If you are old enough to remember Quadraphonic, then you may not hear as well as you used to, and may not notice the phasing problems.

If this is just a stereo amp, than you will not be getting "Quadraphonic", discrete or derived/matrix.

I think I would try just one pair of speakers first. With the size of the environment I suspect you will get too many acoustic issues, phase, reverb, etc. by using multiple speaker pairs.

Will there be any acoustic treatment on the walls?

Sounds like the receiver does have A,B, or A+B, so speaker impedance matching should not be an issue.

 

[nsula_country]

Update!

Question???

If I paired two lefts and two rights (A+B) in opposite corners, would that be better than all 4 corners?

OR 4 Corners, mono??? Who needs Quadraphonic?? LOL!!

I WILL update my build soon!

Thanks,

CT