440V 3 Phase motor in 240V single phase barn. Options?

[HoosierBuddy]

Hey guys,

I've been looking at getting a nice old bandsaw for my woodshop in my barn. I have 240V single phase power out there.

I found a bandsaw that is NICER than what I was looking for and BIGGER than any I had considered. I measured last night and it will barely fit in the spot I have for it. It's an old DoAll in great condition. He wants real money for it...but in my mind, it's worth real money. So the only issue I have really is after buying it, I'll have to figure out a way to get it running.

Specs on the motor are shown in the picture below. I know I'd have options up to and including changing out the motor...but what would you guys recommend might be the best option at a reasonable cost. Is there any way to accomplish this for say $500 or less?

I'm hoping to look at the saw later tonight. Any advice you can give would be much appreciated!

Phil

 

[Aceman]

Your best and cheapest route would be to most likely replace the motor with a 240v single phase equivalent and then rewire the controls/motor wiring.

Without looking at the machine though, I couldn't tell you how involved that will get. I can't imagine it'd be too hard, just taking a stab at it I'm guessing you'd probably be replacing a motor starter and a control transformer if it has one in addition to the motor. That really isn't much work for an electrician if you get a good bandsaw out of it in the end.

 

[mike93lx]

You would need a vid as far as I know. Check out wolfautomation.com to see if they have any to deal with the voltage difference. Otherwise, I think you are looking at a new motor

 

[HoosierBuddy]

You would need a vid as far as I know. Check out wolfautomation.com to see if they have any to deal with the voltage difference. Otherwise, I think you are looking at a new motor

So...you are suggesting something along this line, I guess

https://www.wolfautomation.com/ac-drive-2hp-230v-single-phase

looks like is rated for 2HP with single phase 230V input and 460 V 3 phase output. DUMB QUESTION...is 460V output from a VFD going to hurt a 440 Volt motor?

Phil

 

[alfredeneuman]

I think that particular VFD has a 1Ø 230 V input with a 3Ø 230 V output

 

[rvieceli]

It will be easier and cheaper VFD wise if you can rewire the actual motor for 220 3 phase. On some motors you can and on some you can't. Check and see if there's a plate on the motor that has info.

Doalls are fine saws but be aware that if you have to at some point buy replacement parts from Doall, they are pricey.

That particular model has a two range transmission. Make sure it works and shifts smoothly. Bearing are usually available generically, but the transmission parts only from Doall and expensive.

Make sure to get any and all spare parts the seller may have for the saw thrown in with the deal.

here's a link to the parts manual:

https://www.doallsaws.com/manuals/1612-0.pdf

Ron

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I think that particular VFD has a 1Ø 230 V input with a 3Ø 230 V output

Maybe this is the right one?


https://www.wolfautomation.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=l510-202-h3-u
Phil

 

[HoosierBuddy]

It will be easier and cheaper VFD wise if you can rewire the actual motor for 220 3 phase. On some motors you can and on some you can't. Check and see if there's a plate on the motor that has info.

Doalls are fine saws but be aware that if you have to at some point buy replacement parts from Doall, they are pricey.

That particular model has a two range transmission. Make sure it works and shifts smoothly. Bearing are usually available generically, but the transmission parts only from Doall and expensive.

Make sure to get any and all spare parts the seller may have for the saw thrown in with the deal.

here's a link to the parts manual:

https://www.doallsaws.com/manuals/1612-0.pdf

Ron

Right. He did not include a picture of the motor, so I'll look at that. He's not clear in his listing if the saw is under power...so that may be an issue as well regarding checking out the transmission.

PHil

 

[sberry]

Do you really need this saw? I can do stuff like this and,,,, dont. I like plug and play for single phase, so much less grief especially for those not familiar with this type of thing that can do it at the right cost.
As you said, it's already too big to start with, be different if it was free but you are buying something you got to fix before you can use it.

 

[alfredeneuman]

L510

That one just says 3Ø output.
You may want to give them a call just to verify

I personally don't know of any such thing

 

[rvieceli]

sberry has a valid point, there are several very good brand new options for woodworking bandsaws from just under $1000 to around $2000 that are plug and play with warranty etc. that would serve you well.smaller ones for 500 -1000

Around here that DOall generally runs anywhere from around 1500 up 4000 depending on condition.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

sberry has a valid point, there are several very good brand new options for woodworking bandsaws from just under $1000 to around $2000 that are plug and play with warranty etc. that would serve you well.smaller ones for 500 -1000

Around here that DOall generally runs anywhere from around 1500 up 4000 depending on condition.

He's asking $1500...and in the pictures...the saw looks pristine.

Phil

 

[mike93lx]

Stuffing a huge machine into a shop will just end up being a pain in the ***. Are you doing work that justifies such a machine? I got caught up in the same thing with a drill press and often regret it. A table top one would be fine, but I found some old American iron with a 3 phase motor. Weighs 1500 lbs and takes up almost 15 sq ft. Ready to give it away just to get the space back

 

[Norcal]

All the "plug and play" machines are ChiCom ****, DoAll is a very well regarded machine.

 

[mike93lx]

All the "plug and play" machines are ChiCom ****, DoAll is a very well regarded machine.

The ChiCom **** works just fine for the vast majority of users. A do-all is definitely nice, but takes up a massive amount of space.

 

[Norcal]

The ChiCom **** works just fine for the vast majority of users. A do-all is definitely nice, but takes up a massive amount of space.

They work so fine that they end up in the scrap yards, if space is the concern smart money is with buying a vintage 14" Delta/Rockwell, or Powermatic, the Delta's are quite plentiful & lots of info on restoration, rather then be one of those who are attracted to cheap shiny "tools".

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It will be easier and cheaper VFD wise if you can rewire the actual motor for 220 3 phase. On some motors you can and on some you can't. Check and see if there's a plate on the motor that has info.

Doalls are fine saws but be aware that if you have to at some point buy replacement parts from Doall, they are pricey.

That particular model has a two range transmission. Make sure it works and shifts smoothly. Bearing are usually available generically, but the transmission parts only from Doall and expensive.

Make sure to get any and all spare parts the seller may have for the saw thrown in with the deal.

here's a link to the parts manual:

https://www.doallsaws.com/manuals/1612-0.pdf

Ron

OP provided picture of plate in original post. And the motor is not dual voltage listed so thats a no go.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Guys,

I really appreciate all the feedback. I am definitely on the fence about whether this purchase makes sense due to the fact that getting it running will be a project AND the size considerations.

For reference though, here's the other tools whatever bandsaw I buy will join:

Powermatic PM45 Wood Lathe
Powermatic 1150 Drill Press
Jet 5X6 Metal Cutting Bandsaw (kind of a piece of junk, but I use it a lot)
South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe (Installed a VFD on this one to use the stock 3 phase motor)
U.S. Burke "Millrite" Horizontal Milling Machine
Craftsman 10" Tablesaw (about 1990 vintage.)

Here lately I've been forgoing the newer stuff and have been targeting the older machinery. The OTHER advantage the DoAll has is it's local. Pretty much every other machine I've gotten I've driven 2 to 12 hours roundtrip to buy.

Phil

 

[Norcal]

OP provided picture of plate in original post. And the motor is not dual voltage listed so thats a no go.

It may be dual voltage, but the was ordered for the higher voltage but the only way to verify is to view the motor data plate, if the DoAll has a common motor frame size I wpuld be inclined to go single phase. The data plate shown is the machines.

 

[EOC_Jason]

looks like is rated for 2HP with single phase 230V input and 460 V 3 phase output. DUMB QUESTION...is 460V output from a VFD going to hurt a 440 Volt motor?

Every motor is rated like +/- 10%, going from 440v to 460v is nothing...

Being only a 2HP motor though I would swap it out for a single phase, keep it all nice and tidy and be done with it.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

OP provided picture of plate in original post. And the motor is not dual voltage listed so thats a no go.

Wylie,

That's the seller's picture. I THINK that is the machine tag on the side of the saw, not the tag on the motor. I take it to mean the motor left the factory wired for 440, but I'm hoping there is also a plate on the motor that might provide additional information. Won't know until I go look.

Phil

 

[sberry]

Since it is only 2 up this isn't a big deal to change out to single.

 

[DSMR]

My vote is rewire the motor for LV and put a vfd on it. You will get sooooo much more control and options in doing this at a price that is very similar to a single phase motor.

 

[matt_i]

DoAll is a high end brand in my opinion. Everything is well-thought-out and heavy duty solid. Nicer than a Powermatic.

I would look at the actual motor which probably means taking off a cover. Many many 3 phase motors are "9 wire" which means they are easily configurable for 240vac 3 phase by jumpering the motor windings to be in parallel on the lower voltage (vs series for the higher voltage)

In my opinion a bandsaw is a ripe candidate for a static converter, just because a bandsaw doesn't consume the full motor horsepower, like ever.

The static conversion can be done with a timing relay, a start capacitor and another 3 pole contactor. All inside the saw. More or less its just like making the bandsaw the idler motor for a rotary converter.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

FOLLOW UP AFTER VISITING AND LOOKING AT THE MACHINE.

Everyone above was correct. That DoAll is built like a tank. If someone tried to build that machine today and bring it to market, they would to sell it for 10 grand...and no one would pay that...so that's why "they don't build them like they used to."

Anyway...the bandsaw is in great condition. It's all there. The motor is labeled 208/220/440V, and it's currently wired for 440. The saw is not under power, and no 3-phase is available in the building so I couldn't test it...but the machine appeared to be in great shape and only lightly used.

It's just too big for me though. The seller told me the footprint was about 3X3, and the base is about that size, but the table sticks forward and to the side of the base, so you would need more like a 5 X 5 space (or close to it) to fit it in...and it's likely 7 feet tall as well. I just can't fit it in my little woodworking shop.

But...if you guys know anyone that is looking for a good saw, in or near southern Indiana...PM me and I'll get you a link to the information he posted on the saw on FB Marketplace. He seemed like a super nice guy. He's motivated to sell...and DID I MENTION THIS THING IS A TANK?

He's located about an hour northwest of Louisville, KY or 2 hours due south of Indy.

Thanks again for everyone chiming in. It made my day go faster getting to dream about maybe buying another machine...it just wasn't meant to be though.

Phil