Hey guys I have browsed the site for awhile now but now need some advice. I am looking into heating my shop. The shop is 45 x 60 with 24ft ceilings and has 2 reznor 45k btu units hanging from the ceiling. They dont even make a dent in the space and run all day long.. Any advice would be greatly appreciated..
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45 x 60 with 24ft ceiling.. Need heater advice
- Thread starter Infamous
- Start date
Is it a steel building with open ceilings? We used about 4 big ceiling fans in truck shop I worked in, it made a huge difference. It was heated using 2 clean burn waste oil furnaces. I can tell you without them it was 15-20 degrees colder.
bad daddy
Well-known member
We have radiant heat in the garage, over any work station.
The floor is also heated, but has not been hooked up yet. It takes far longer to get the floor warm, but once it is warm, it is cheaper to run....
If you have ceiling fans, you want them to **** the air UP in the winter, and blow DOWN in the summer.
In the boat shop I worked in, the place never got warm until about 1 in the afternoon, and then they shut them off. We should have had them on a timer so that they'd come on about an hour before we got to work...
The floor is also heated, but has not been hooked up yet. It takes far longer to get the floor warm, but once it is warm, it is cheaper to run....
If you have ceiling fans, you want them to **** the air UP in the winter, and blow DOWN in the summer.
In the boat shop I worked in, the place never got warm until about 1 in the afternoon, and then they shut them off. We should have had them on a timer so that they'd come on about an hour before we got to work...
Marty V
New member
Infamous,
Not sure if this is practical. But, first thing I would do is get some insulation under that metal roof. Maybe a spray foam with a fireproof coating.
Second, If possible you might consider pouring a overlay of concrete or some type of cementitous type of layer with infloor heat and a good adequate sized boiler. Once we can heat the concrete floor we have a giant reserve of heat a good natural gas boiler would be the safest most efficient way to do that. Contact a reputable commercial HVAC contractor and they should be able to help you to size the boiler. That is extremely important. We are really not interested in heating the entire 24' tall area of the building we just need to heat the first 7'-8'. You might also consider some ceiling fans to help drive some of the natural convection warm air that is hanging up on the ceiling down to eliminate the need to use so much energy to get the entire 24' tall heated. Others might suggest to insulate the walls. While that would be a good idea I'd be temped to try first without doing anything to the walls. Provided they are concrete block, which was the case in my dad's garage, which was a solid masonry garage except for the roof and garage doors. Dad had a wood furnace in the garage and he kept that thing going everyday and the block walls acted just like a big heat reserve or a giant masonry heater. The radiant heat was fantastic.
So, by heating the floor and insulating the ceiling we can probably get you pretty good.
As for where you can purchase some decent equipment check out Grainger or Johnassen (sp) Supply. Both are decent HVAC supply houses.
Good Luck.
Minnesota Marty
Not sure if this is practical. But, first thing I would do is get some insulation under that metal roof. Maybe a spray foam with a fireproof coating.
Second, If possible you might consider pouring a overlay of concrete or some type of cementitous type of layer with infloor heat and a good adequate sized boiler. Once we can heat the concrete floor we have a giant reserve of heat a good natural gas boiler would be the safest most efficient way to do that. Contact a reputable commercial HVAC contractor and they should be able to help you to size the boiler. That is extremely important. We are really not interested in heating the entire 24' tall area of the building we just need to heat the first 7'-8'. You might also consider some ceiling fans to help drive some of the natural convection warm air that is hanging up on the ceiling down to eliminate the need to use so much energy to get the entire 24' tall heated. Others might suggest to insulate the walls. While that would be a good idea I'd be temped to try first without doing anything to the walls. Provided they are concrete block, which was the case in my dad's garage, which was a solid masonry garage except for the roof and garage doors. Dad had a wood furnace in the garage and he kept that thing going everyday and the block walls acted just like a big heat reserve or a giant masonry heater. The radiant heat was fantastic.
So, by heating the floor and insulating the ceiling we can probably get you pretty good.
As for where you can purchase some decent equipment check out Grainger or Johnassen (sp) Supply. Both are decent HVAC supply houses.
Good Luck.
Minnesota Marty
You have more than enough heat for the size. As said before, insulation. I have a 60X72X14 metal building with 4/12 pitch. 80,000 BTU's keeps my shop very comfortable at 0 F. The difference is I have R 60 in the ceiling and R 30 walls.
So, can you suspend a ceiling from your roof and insulate above it with R30 or more Fiber Glass batt. Or attach some type of foam or sheet insulation to the walls.
So, can you suspend a ceiling from your roof and insulate above it with R30 or more Fiber Glass batt. Or attach some type of foam or sheet insulation to the walls.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
If you have ceiling fans, you want them to **** the air UP in the winter, and blow DOWN in the summer.
I've heard people say this for years, but for practical purposes, they should blow down, period. In large warehouse buildings with high ceilings you will find the fans blowing down in the winter, to push the heat that has collected at the roof or ceiling back down where it belongs. Even in a house, having the fan blow down works better. I have a ceiling fan in my great room and it runs on high, 24/7 blowing down. In the winter, if it doesn't do that, the upstairs gets toasty, and you freeze downstairs. With it running, blowing down, the temp tends to even out.
In my 60x60 shop with 16 ft eaves and a 21 ft peak (steel building) I always blow them down. In summer, it pushes the heat down and the wind carries it out thru the open doors, in the winter, what little heat accumulates up top, the fans push down where you can feel it (no heaters yet).
Charles
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
If this is wide open space all the way to the roof, you will NEVER be able to heat it without some serious ceiling fans. You are trying to heat about 64,800 cubic feet of space, just a little shy of my 66,600 cuft (but I'm in Georgia). I'm guessing I need about 200K btu or better to give me a 30 to 35 degree temp rise, You will need at least that much, if not more.
Here is Ryan's thread on Big *** Fans and here is another Ceiling Fan Thread.
In your case, its clear you need larger heaters, and ceiling fans.
Charles
Here is Ryan's thread on Big *** Fans and here is another Ceiling Fan Thread.
In your case, its clear you need larger heaters, and ceiling fans.
Charles
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
I have a 60X72X14 metal building with 4/12 pitch
Thats 82,080 cuft assuming your peak runs the long way of the building.
You have LOTS of insulation!!!!!!!
Charles
redsky49
Well-known member
While overhead fans make sense in many applications, stirring fans may not be the best choice for the OP.
With a 24 ft. ceiling height, does it make much sense to heat the entire space? Who is occupying the space from 6'-24' AFF?
As the OP has found, general space heating has been ineffective. While they may not be my first choice for comfort heating, this is the precise application for overhead radiant heaters - especially if natural gas is available.
As an example, fire houses are typical of a high-ceiling large storage area, where occupant comfort is also important. In these cases, high mounted infra-red strip heaters are a standard choice, and provide an economical operating performance in addition to providing adequate comfort for occupants.
While not a substitute for a proper design study, this unit may be appropriate for your application:
http://www.spaceray.com/1_lts-series_tube-heater.php
These are quality units that I have used successfully in the past. Please note that for a proper selection and installation these units must be engineered for your particular project.
In addition, if the typical occupied area is just a portion of the space, heating could be limited to that particular area of the garage, reducing both the up front capital costs as well as the on-going operating costs.
As always, offered only as opinion
With a 24 ft. ceiling height, does it make much sense to heat the entire space? Who is occupying the space from 6'-24' AFF?
As the OP has found, general space heating has been ineffective. While they may not be my first choice for comfort heating, this is the precise application for overhead radiant heaters - especially if natural gas is available.
As an example, fire houses are typical of a high-ceiling large storage area, where occupant comfort is also important. In these cases, high mounted infra-red strip heaters are a standard choice, and provide an economical operating performance in addition to providing adequate comfort for occupants.
While not a substitute for a proper design study, this unit may be appropriate for your application:
http://www.spaceray.com/1_lts-series_tube-heater.php
These are quality units that I have used successfully in the past. Please note that for a proper selection and installation these units must be engineered for your particular project.
In addition, if the typical occupied area is just a portion of the space, heating could be limited to that particular area of the garage, reducing both the up front capital costs as well as the on-going operating costs.
As always, offered only as opinion
MikeLawrence
Well-known member
^ This. Redsky is right on the money here.
I'd point out if you DO want to stick with heating "the space" though the guy who said that you have plenty of BTU is nuts... Given what you have 200k+ with lots of fans could still be undersized. That's a TON of unoccupied space you're heating (alot of it outside of the building).
Michael Lawrence, Lissco
I'd point out if you DO want to stick with heating "the space" though the guy who said that you have plenty of BTU is nuts... Given what you have 200k+ with lots of fans could still be undersized. That's a TON of unoccupied space you're heating (alot of it outside of the building).
Michael Lawrence, Lissco