4500/8510 vs. Ts210

[purediesel]

Looking for the pro's to chime in here since this is the place for the floor coatings and there's a bunch of pro's out there. I am torn between the GhostShield 4500/8510 combo and the TS210 from Concrete Sealers USA. The TS210 seems to have great reviews just as the GhostShield does. I am no expert on these coatings and that's why I'm hoping for some help from the pros on the topic. I have a 3840 sq ft. slab that is now 55 days old that needs sealed pretty quick so I can officially start using it. This will be used as an automotive shop and fab shop where welding and grinding will happen. The floor is power troweled smooth with saw cuts aprox. every 10ft. Guess I'm looking for some input on the two coating and how they are the same or differ and which may be best for the application.

Thanks!

 

[Garage Flooring]

Looking for the pro's to chime in here since this is the place for the floor coatings and there's a bunch of pro's out there. I am torn between the GhostShield 4500/8510 combo and the TS210 from Concrete Sealers USA. The TS210 seems to have great reviews just as the GhostShield does. I am no expert on these coatings and that's why I'm hoping for some help from the pros on the topic. I have a 3840 sq ft. slab that is now 55 days old that needs sealed pretty quick so I can officially start using it. This will be used as an automotive shop and fab shop where welding and grinding will happen. The floor is power troweled smooth with saw cuts aprox. every 10ft. Guess I'm looking for some input on the two coating and how they are the same or differ and which may be best for the application.

Thanks!

I have the utmost respect for healthy competition and I am not going to directly compare a product I don't sell. I just don't think its right. What I will say is 8505 was a water-based product and did an AMAZING job. Within the same brand when they introduced the solvent-based 8510 they found that the solvent-based product carried twice as much actives in a single coat as their water-based did in two coats.

Ghostshield has GREAT testing on their products and a great data sheet https://assets.ctfassets.net/muyees...6c487df8eaaa4b98c4809df815b65/8510_TDS_v3.pdf

 

[Armorpoxy]

As a policy we don't comment on competitors we don't carry. We can tell you that GS we have sold hundreds of thousands of square feet of it with superb success!

 

[Shea]

Keep in mind that you are comparing apples and oranges. The GhostShield treatment is a penetrating sealer system that is non film forming. TS210 is a thin film forming topical coating.

The GhostShield treatment cannot be scratched or damaged since it is a penetrating sealer while the TS210 can be scratched or damaged if hot slag falls on it or sharp metal is dragged across the surface.

TS210 will prevent any staining of the concrete since it is a coating, while GhostShield can stain if petroleum or other stain causing liquids are allowed to sit for a period of time.

If you are not concerned about aesthetics, want fairly easy cleanup and don't want to worry about what is dragged across the surface, then the GhostShield system is the way to go.

If your primary concern is stains, real easy cleanup, and you don't mind making the occasional coating repair due to aggressive use, then TS210 would fit the bill.

From our experience with such a large automotive fabricating and repair shop, a system such as GhostShield is the preferred treatment unless you are willing to invest a lot of $$ into an industrial coating system.

TS210 is a great product that is starting to collect nice reviews, but it really is not designed for the type of work you do.

 

[purediesel]

I thought I read that the TS210 was a penetration sealer and a top coat all in one. I could also be misunderstanding what I read. I think staining is always a concrete for new concrete owners and I am one of them for sure. To list them in priority it would go as follows. Strength, Stain resistance, cleanup and then making topical repairs. As far as staining I thought that the combo 4500/8510 would be right up there with the TS210 and that why i asked here. You guys are great and full of great info. Thanks for taking the time to help out.

 

[Shea]

GhostShield does well for a penetrating sealer when it comes to stains, but it's definitely not stain proof. If you don't let liquids dwell, it will do real well with the type of floor you have. Coatings are always going to outperform a penetrating sealer though when it comes to stain resistance.

 

[Basketcase]

Bump. Same position as OP with a 2700sqft shop that will be getting used for similar projects.

Was sold on GhostShield until I read Shea’s review on the TS210 from this passed July. Wondering if the opinion has changed since this thread.

The TS210 seems to be an unbeatable price for the size of shop I’m doing and what I’m expecting it to do.

Thanks

 

[Steve in UT]

TS210 is similar to what I put on my 2,700 sqft floor and you have to be somewhat careful with it. It scratches fairly easy, but the stain and oil resistance is really nice.

 

[Basketcase]

TS210 is similar to what I put on my 2,700 sqft floor and you have to be somewhat careful with it. It scratches fairly easy, but the stain and oil resistance is really nice.

Are you doing another floor now? Or redoing what you’ve already done? I saw your Single coat polyurea thread

 

[Steve in UT]

My son in law was trying to figure out what he wanted to do on his new garage. I was trying to sway him into the light but unfortunately he went to the dark side (RockSolid Polycuramine.)

 

[dpr64]

Very interested in the U140 or the TS210.... Which one will have a better shine/polished look when done?

 

[Shea]

The U140 has a semi-gloss finish and TS210 has more of a matte finish.

 

[Shea]

This is the latest pics of a TS210 application.

 

[Steve in UT]

I think that looks every bit as semi gloss as the u140. Or maybe I should say u140 is just as matte as TS210. I am coming up on a year, I need to do a one year review.

 

[dpr64]

I think that looks every bit as semi gloss as the u140. Or maybe I should say u140 is just as matte as TS210. I am coming up on a year, I need to do a one year review.

Please do!! Interested in the longer term analysis...

 

[purediesel]

That TS210 looks way better then my 8510. Prob works better also. I'm starting to think I should have used another product.

 

[Shea]

I think that looks every bit as semi gloss as the u140. Or maybe I should say u140 is just as matte as TS210. I am coming up on a year, I need to do a one year review.

They may indeed have a somewhat similar finish. Concrete Sealers USA tends to be conservative when describing finishes. They feel more comfortable calling TS210 a matte finish than a semi-gloss finish.

That TS210 looks way better then my 8510. Prob works better also. I'm starting to think I should have used another product.

Keep in mind that you are comparing apples and oranges. The GhostShield system is comprised of penetrating sealers. Penetrating sealers do little to change the look of concrete since they are non film forming. While they do well at sealing and help to resist various types of stains, they are not going to be stain proof. There is also no worries about creating any harm to the finish if dragging something across the surface.

TS210 and U140 are thin film forming sealers that are going to provide a finish. While they both do very well at preventing staining and make cleanup a breeze, they can get damaged with rough abuse.

 

[purediesel]

The fact that water still penetrates the 4500/8510 combo is concerning to the product and the longevity of its application. I have water stains in an area where the bottom seal on my overhead door leaks.

 

[Shea]

The fact that water still penetrates the 4500/8510 combo is concerning to the product and the longevity of its application. I have water stains in an area where the bottom seal on my overhead door leaks.

Penetrating sealers are not waterproof. Unfortunately, it's a common misconception of the general public that "sealing concrete" with a penetrating sealer means it's waterproofed. If a liquid sits long enough on concrete treated with a penetrating sealer it will eventually penetrate to some degree. How much is dependent upon the sealer.

These type of sealers are typically marketed as repellants that are resistant to a variety of chemicals and liquids - which they are.

Most film forming sealers (coatings) such as TS210, epoxy, polyurea, and etc. will not allow water or other liquids to pass through.

The problem lies with the term "sealer". Penetrating sealers and coatings are both considered sealers. When the general consumer starts looking for products to seal their concrete, they are introduced to a mix of both penetrating sealers and coatings. The coatings are sometimes marketed as "waterproofing" and so on. As a result, you can understand why it's easy to assume that all sealers waterproof concrete when they don't.

 

[purediesel]

Sounds like I wasted a ton of time and money. That is good information that should be clearly stated on these products then. The next question would be is there a way to top coat the 8510 so it would be better at waterproofing and such?

 

[Ron_J]

Sounds like I wasted a ton of time and money. That is good information that should be clearly stated on these products then. The next question would be is there a way to top coat the 8510 so it would be better at waterproofing and such?

I'm in on this.

I'm under the impression that putting anything on the ghostshield is a bad idea and won't adhere properly?

I have about the same opinion of the GS as purediesel. I don't hate it, but it doesn't do what I expected (incorrectly expected by the sounds of it)

 

[purediesel]

Pretty sure it'll have to ground down for a new application to take hold, and at that point you might as well do an epoxy coating.

 

[Ron_J]

I don't think epoxy is for me. I have only been in my garage since July (?) and I already have a bunch of marks on the floor from slag and sparks. I don't drag much that would scratch it, but whatever I do will have to either be somewhat good for welding or at least fairly easy to repair from time to time.

 

[RPH]

I used 4500 and Gs8505. Working farm shop. I did acid stain prior to application, 4 colors to break up the gray. I’m impressed with the ghostshield products. I have yet to get a stain that hasn’t cleaned up. But I don’t give them days to sit either. I’m sure it will happen, just not yet.

 

[Shea]

I'm in on this.

I'm under the impression that putting anything on the ghostshield is a bad idea and won't adhere properly?

I have about the same opinion of the GS as purediesel. I don't hate it, but it doesn't do what I expected (incorrectly expected by the sounds of it)

That's correct. If you want to apply any type of coating, it's going to require grinding first to properly profile the surface and open up the pores so that the coating can penetrate.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Hi, Ghostshield since it is a penetrating resistant product in our opinion would repel a topical coating so it would need to be grinded off. A coating or topical sealer most likely would not properly adhere and you would need to test first.

 

[Steve in UT]

Anyone ever try wax over GhostShield?

 

[dpr64]

Would an electric forklift or scissor lift with the 'non-marking' tires wreak havoc on U140 or TS210?

 

[dpr64]

Just noticed a different product called Duragrade by Rustbullet and it comes in clear... Wonder how it looks compared to the clear from u140 or ts210?

 

[Steve in UT]

Looks like it might be good. A bit more money. I figured about $1.14 sqft for the 2 coat min. If it is thicker it might be worth it. I am guessing that this stuff is a one part polyurea. If I were doing it over I think I would go with something thicker.

 

[Shea]

Just noticed a different product called Duragrade by Rustbullet and it comes in clear... Wonder how it looks compared to the clear from u140 or ts210?

DuraGrade is a slightly different product. It's single-part moisture cured polyurethane. You can read more about it here: https://allgaragefloors.com/duragrade-concrete-coating-review/

 

[dpr64]

Does anyone have 'more' photos of some of these in clear?