50-75ft 50amp wiring for new welder

[kars85]

Hey fella's,

I picked up a Hobart 210 MVP welder. I want to wire a dedicated 220V circuit to my shop.

I estimate a run of 50-75 feet, so I'll just pick up a 125' spool and sell the rest on CL, or ask around work if anyone has any leftover from a spool I could buy for cheaper.

I could get by with a 40A circuit for this welder, but figure for the effort of running the wire, etc...I'll just go 50A and be done with it. In the end the additional cost isn't much.

Is 6/3 the right call here? Will the Eaton CH breakers my panel uses take 6/3?

Breaker:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-Type-Ch-50-Amp-2-Pole-Standard-Trip-Circuit-Breaker/4747763

Thanks!

 

[Aceman]

If you want a true 50 amp rated circuit, then use 6-2. Romex/MC cable don't count the ground wire.

 

[mike93lx]

Welders don't need a 50a circuit since they aren't a continuous load.

It is your money, but 10/2 would work fine.

Also, 2 conductor (plus ground) is what you want. Adding a neutral is a waste

 

[kars85]

Good lord I was way off. 10/2 will pull a lot easier and give me 30A? Considerably cheaper wire, enough to backtrack on my initial 50A thought process.

Only looks like the 210 MVP will draw 24A at the rated output, and I'll likely never weld long enough to ever sniff the 30% duty cycle.

 

[Jason280]

I'd still run 6/2, at the very least 8/2 if you are going to the trouble of putting in a new plug. Sure, your Miller will only pull 24a, but are you 100% sure you won't end up with anything requiring more amperage in the future? Do it once with 6/2, and you'll never have to touch it again.

When I built my last shop, I installed six 240v plugs. Three are 20v plugs using 10/2, two used 8/3 wire, and the longest run was with 6/3. I was fortunate to find enough 8/3 and 6/3 and the local scrap yard, and was able to get it considerably cheaper than the local supply stores (in fact, it was almost as cheap as the 10/2).

 

[mike93lx]

I'd still run 6/2, at the very least 8/2 if you are going to the trouble of putting in a new plug. Sure, your Miller will only pull 24a, but are you 100% sure you won't end up with anything requiring more amperage in the future? Do it once with 6/2, and you'll never have to touch it again.

When I built my last shop, I installed six 240v plugs. Three are 20v plugs using 10/2, two used 8/3 wire, and the longest run was with 6/3. I was fortunate to find enough 8/3 and 6/3 and the local scrap yard, and was able to get it considerably cheaper than the local supply stores (in fact, it was almost as cheap as the 10/2).

That seems a little silly. With modern inverters, how many people really will ever need that capacity, especially at home? Not much need to be running 300a welds...

 

[gtae07]

When I wired my shop, my philosophy was "if it's going to be a 50A outlet, then by God it'll be a 50A outlet" and I wired it with 6/3.

Turns out, it's a good thing I did. I'm going to have need to bake some parts after painting, and having a true 50A outlet means our old range that we just replaced will plug right in and work. Same in the garage, where I dropped another 50A outlet just in case with some leftover wire. We may be getting an electric car in the future and that will work perfectly for the charger.

OP, if you're pulling a wire all that way, why not pull wire for 50 or 60 amps and put a subpanel there, instead of just the welder power?

 

[David0858]

This is from the owners manual, page 19. I knew something didn't look right here as I had wired my Lincoln 180 up last year. -

 

[mike93lx]

When I wired my shop, my philosophy was "if it's going to be a 50A outlet, then by God it'll be a 50A outlet" and I wired it with 6/3.

Turns out, it's a good thing I did. I'm going to have need to bake some parts after painting, and having a true 50A outlet means our old range that we just replaced will plug right in and work. Same in the garage, where I dropped another 50A outlet just in case with some leftover wire. We may be getting an electric car in the future and that will work perfectly for the charger.

OP, if you're pulling a wire all that way, why not pull wire for 50 or 60 amps and put a subpanel there, instead of just the welder power?

yes, let's take a project that can be completed for <$100 and turn it into a $300+ project.

at no point did the OP indicate that the run was hard to complete. if more power is needed later, then upgrade later. this isn't a complex project.

 

[sberry]

Not only that a 10 cable and 50A breaker is legal for most plug and cord supplied machines, all but the 250 migs. But modern small migs and new stick inverters run fine from 30.
Some of the owners manuals are confusing at best,,,,, they are for electricians and those famiar with NEMA. The 30 breaker in the manual posted above is when the minimum wire of 14 is used, 12 or better can use 50, the plug that comes on it. The 10 wire is 2 sizes better already than the legal standard for this machine. It does give them all the help it can though.

 

[sberry]

Good lord I was way off. 10/2 will pull a lot easier and give me 30A? Considerably cheaper wire, enough to backtrack on my initial 50A thought process.

Only looks like the 210 MVP will draw 24A at the rated output, and I'll likely never weld long enough to ever sniff the 30% duty cycle.

You would need 12 in a cable with 30, you can legally wire it with 14 single circuit in pipe @ 30 but,,,, no one thinks it's a great idea and the recept would need a jumper due to the fact it's not listed for that little wire.
To add to that it really does have a bit of voltage drop especially with dome distance, a guy needs to fuss with the adjustment a little, if I am testing and aware can tell a pinch. It's not much but there, once it's on 12 can't tell. No difference between 10 and 6 for these machines.

 

[TRWham]

That seems a little silly. With modern inverters, how many people really will ever need that capacity, especially at home? Not much need to be running 300a welds...

yes, let's take a project that can be completed for <$100 and turn it into a $300+ project.

at no point did the OP indicate that the run was hard to complete. if more power is needed later, then upgrade later. this isn't a complex project.

Forget it, Jake. It's Garage Journal. Nothing succeeds like excess.

 

[Bretny]

I have that welder and you dont need 50a for it. Only the plug is 50a i believe. Look at the specs on the back of the welder.

I have mine running on a 50a breaker but thats because i had some 2g wire laying around..and i own another bigger welder.

Those are great little welders an should suit many home shop needs for many years. Mine is pre MPV and about 8yrs old.

 

[Bert_]

I'm all for using the smallest wire if you have a single known load, but for the wiring to the outlet I tend to go with #8 or #6 on a 50A.

A #10 or even smaller is fine for the welder but in my experience a 50A plug gets used for way more than a welder. One shop next to me uses their 50A plugs for welders, plasma cutters, iron worker, pressure washer, now got a big hot water parts washer that pulls 40 amps.

 

[sberry]

I don't use mine for anything but welders. Plasma may follow under the same class. I have a hot washer,,, requires a 30A . Some of that stuff may require a limited circuit and anything over 3 hp needs hard wire most of the time.

 

[sberry]

yes, let's take a project that can be completed for <$100 and turn it into a $300+ project.

at no point did the OP indicate that the run was hard to complete. if more power is needed later, then upgrade later. this isn't a complex project.

Agree with this. One reason I do is i used to do **** like that, almost never paid off.

 

[ez-duzit]

For a 50-amp receptacle, 75 feet away, I'd run 8-gauge.

 

[PT Doc]

I'd still run 6/2, at the very least 8/2 if you are going to the trouble of putting in a new plug. Sure, your Miller will only pull 24a, but are you 100% sure you won't end up with anything requiring more amperage in the future? Do it once with 6/2, and you'll never have to touch it again.

When I built my last shop, I installed six 240v plugs. Three are 20v plugs using 10/2, two used 8/3 wire, and the longest run was with 6/3. I was fortunate to find enough 8/3 and 6/3 and the local scrap yard, and was able to get it considerably cheaper than the local supply stores (in fact, it was almost as cheap as the 10/2).

I agree. Run it now and you wont regret it.

 

[sberry]

I agree, probably won't regret it even though he doesn't need it and likely never will or need a more specialized circuit. Doesn't mean even if another 1 was ran that this will be abandoned. 50 ft is not a long run. It's not a bad thing to have dedicated simple circuits especially for homeowner types instead of having a bunch of stuff hooked together. If I was going to use 6 / 3 conductor would probably add a 6 space panel especially if I was short in that area, a bit would depend on available spaces and difficulty.
My point might be different as,,,, I can,, might have wire one way or another, can do it fast at cost. Can use left over materials.
If I was doing this for a bud some of these factors may play too.
I am not likely to cruise junkyard long for wire and might even go 12 if I had it.

 

[nadogail]

I used #8 for my Hobart Stickmate. Works fine.

 

[sberry]

I used #8 for my Hobart Stickmate. Works fine.

No mystery, it should, 2 sizes bigger than required, one if its cable. It calls for 12 single circuit in pipe at 84 feet. There is,some performance loss though, once it is moved up to 10 it's no longer an issue, with 8 almost no loss. It won't hurt it that's for sure.

 

[kars85]

I'm set on the single drop. I don't have a need to retro a subpanel out there as I've gotten by with the 12 gauge wired, (8) 15A outlets already there. But given what I have, this will do. I look at this drop as a luxury drop, not a need.

I'll pick up a roll of 8/2 on a 40A breaker. Wire coming up and down the walls will be in 3/4 PVC conduit. Still reading on how to best secure the wire in the attic space. Stapled up to the perpendicular rafters, or run it stapled along the ceiling joists. Finding a method to staple the 8/2 is proving to be interesting. Lot's of creative ways...

Anything more, including 6/2 for a 50A hookup would be quite a bit more work. I'm going to pull a homeowner's permit as I plan on doing everything but the main panel hookup myself and have a friend of mine who is a licensed electrician do that. I'm already dreading some of the bends I'll need to do on 8/2, let alone on anything bigger.

 

[mike93lx]

I'm set on the single drop. I don't have a need to retro a subpanel out there as I've gotten by with the 12 gauge wired, (8) 15A outlets already there. But given what I have, this will do. I look at this drop as a luxury drop, not a need.

I'll pick up a roll of 8/2 on a 40A breaker. Wire coming up and down the walls will be in 3/4 PVC conduit. Still reading on how to best secure the wire in the attic space. Stapled up to the perpendicular rafters, or run it stapled along the ceiling joists. Finding a method to staple the 8/2 is proving to be interesting. Lot's of creative ways...

Anything more, including 6/2 for a 50A hookup would be quite a bit more work. I'm going to pull a homeowner's permit as I plan on doing everything but the main panel hookup myself and have a friend of mine who is a licensed electrician do that. I'm already dreading some of the bends I'll need to do on 8/2, let alone on anything bigger.

So use 10/2

 

[TheOtherChris]

Finding a method to staple the 8/2 is proving to be interesting. Lot's of creative ways....

½ inch PEX plumbing hangers work very well for 8 ga.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

½ inch PEX plumbing hangers work very well for 8 ga.

Not U/L listed for use as a wire hanger

 

[sberry]

For the most part if its laying leave it lay. But depending on the welder connected to it 8 is good for 50 on welders, 10 may be also. The only machines that need larger than 10 cable that come factory cord and plug are 250 class feeders. That machine can run from 12/30
Whoooooops,,,, I guess I repeat this, sometimes these seem to run together.

 

[gtae07]

I'm set on the single drop. I don't have a need to retro a subpanel out there as I've gotten by with the 12 gauge wired, (8) 15A outlets already there. But given what I have, this will do. I look at this drop as a luxury drop, not a need.

Fair enough. I just know I've kicked myself enough times with "dammit, why didn't I do XXXX when I had it opened up to do that other thing"...

 

[Bert_]

Not U/L listed for use as a wire hanger

Does a support need to be listed? For example a hole in a wooden stud is a support but certainly not listed

The 3/4" wide NM straps work fine for this purpose though so no reason to go with the pex clamp.

 

[PT Doc]

I agree, probably won't regret it even though he doesn't need it and likely never will or need a more specialized circuit. Doesn't mean even if another 1 was ran that this will be abandoned. 50 ft is not a long run. It's not a bad thing to have dedicated simple circuits especially for homeowner types instead of having a bunch of stuff hooked together. If I was going to use 6 / 3 conductor would probably add a 6 space panel especially if I was short in that area, a bit would depend on available spaces and difficulty.
My point might be different as,,,, I can,, might have wire one way or another, can do it fast at cost. Can use left over materials.
If I was doing this for a bud some of these factors may play too.
I am not likely to cruise junkyard long for wire and might even go 12 if I had it.

If you run 6g you could in the future put in a subpanel. You could pull a neutral also and then your subpanel would have 240v and 120v. Just a thought to look at all the options.

 

[Buickspec6231]

I just wired up the outlet for my Miller 215. I ran it in 6/3. For the peace of mind and cost it was a no-brainer. Save money on another project, not there.

 

[TRWham]

Does a support need to be listed? For example a hole in a wooden stud is a support but certainly not listed

The 3/4" wide NM straps work fine for this purpose though so no reason to go with the pex clamp.

But a bored hole is quite specifically listed in the code (see 300.4 and 334.30), just not listed by UL. UL cannot list what it cannot test, and it cannot test every bored hole in every installation.

 

[sberry]

If you run 6g you could in the future put in a subpanel. You could pull a neutral also and then your subpanel would have 240v and 120v. Just a thought to look at all the options.

You could, but a point was made earlier, want a 100$ job or 300?

 

[sberry]

ISometimes it would be different if the insurance was 20$ or even 50 juice but 3x as much for "just in case" doesn't make sense at every turn. The reason I say this is been there, done it. Can still remember one of the first air lines I installed,, inch, the pro remarked,, 1/2 would have worked just as well.
I am in a place where some upsize is justified in some places as I am somewhat commercial. Many of the utilities are 1 size up from residential. Most do not to need to be 2 or 3 bigger though. 1 will deliver all it can from the input and another is the distance. My building is 80 ft, 100 from the 3 hp well with a couple extra turns.
Same for the wire, really 100 ft before I start, extra panels saved a lot of work, allowed changes, reduced any drop and I can do this at cost or minimize it where it wasn't significant or a deal breaking delay.
3rd,, I am a career welder mechanic, at one point added a lot. But many of my latest revisions or remodels have been simplifications and even removal rather than additions and when I did add it didn't look the same as when I did the original install, changed the design anyway.

 

[shaggyant]

Not only that a 10 cable and 50A breaker is legal for most plug and cord supplied machines, all but the 250 migs. But modern small migs and new stick inverters run fine from 30.
Some of the owners manuals are confusing at best,,,,, they are for electricians and those famiar with NEMA. The 30 breaker in the manual posted above is when the minimum wire of 14 is used, 12 or better can use 50, the plug that comes on it. The 10 wire is 2 sizes better already than the legal standard for this machine. It does give them all the help it can though.

My fear is about what happens when the next guy plugs a 7,500 watt electric heater into that 50 amp receptacle?

 

[sberry]

I am not sure how prevelent 7500 watt heaters are but,, they don't come cord and plug. These minimum wires are usually single circuit in pipe. I doubt the instructions for a heater say wire it up with the wrong plug and find an available outlet. I didn't look in a catalog and see if they come portable.
These allowances have been in the code for a long time. If this was happening they would have changed it. I have never heard of a fire from it,,,, doesn't mean it hadnt but it's got to be pretty rare. They have made fuse tampering difficult, that was a problem.
I got a bud is fire investigator, a couple actually but I asked them. You ever see a fire from welder or air comp wiring. Said, never. Using welder yes, small heaters, **** with old fuse boxes, tampered wire etc.

 

[shaggyant]

I am not sure how prevelent 7500 watt heaters are but,, they don't come cord and plug. These minimum wires are usually single circuit in pipe. I doubt the instructions for a heater say wire it up with the wrong plug and find an available outlet. I didn't look in a catalog and see if they come portable.
These allowances have been in the code for a long time. If this was happening they would have changed it. I have never heard of a fire from it,,,, doesn't mean it hadnt but it's got to be pretty rare. They have made fuse tampering difficult, that was a problem.
I got a bud is fire investigator, a couple actually but I asked them. You ever see a fire from welder or air comp wiring. Said, never. Using welder yes, small heaters, **** with old fuse boxes, tampered wire etc.

Portable heaters come with plugs on them. Not sure why you would think otherwise.

https://www.king-electric.com/pdfs/PGH2448-ETB_WEB.pdf

 

[sberry]

I havnt seen 7500 portable, what plug comes on them?

 

[sberry]

I am going to speculate a little, so research if you need a positive anssere but. I doubt anything over 5k comes cord and plug, even those will come with 30A and not a 50A welder plug. I can't recall ever seeing anything other than welders use those. Oven and range are different, must be true 50A.