50 amp outlet ??

[plain2car]

all,
i have a 50 amp 220 v plug in the garage & i was wondering if i change out the fuse (in main panel) & the plug outlet in the wall if it would work for a 110 v outlet? or what would need to be done to change a 220 to a 110 outlet?

thanks!!
plain2car
sorry if this might a be dumb question, but that is why i ask on here cuz i do not know

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Run a new wire. The wire for the 50 amp is too big to easily use for 120v receptacle, and you run into code issues when you use oversize wire. It really is easier to just run a new circuit.

Charles

 

[plain2car]

charles,
yea i was afraid of that.... i included the 220v when i spec'd the house out, but i now find that a 110v would suite me better. i will look into the suggestion to run another 110v as suggested.....

thanks!!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Put a small sub panel in the garage. Then you can run multiple 110v outlet and still have a 20-30A 220V outlet.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Put a small sub panel in the garage. Then you can run multiple 110v outlet and still have a 20-30A 220V outlet.

Is the receptacle 3 wire or 4 wire? It needs to be a 4 wire (two hots, a neutral and a separate ground) in order to be repurposed for a subpanel.

 

[plain2car]

stuart,
i believe the receptacle is a 4 prong outlet, what ever one is the more rare to be used....that is my luck! LOL!!

 

[annoyingrob]

I have a small 4 breaker panel mounted to a piece of plywood with a 30A 4 prong electrical cable feeding into it, and four outlets coming out. There are 4 15A breakers in the box, each feeding an outlet. We used to use them when DJ'ing, and needed additional power at a venue. It's portable, relatively simple to make, and provided your 4 prong outlet has a proper neutral, and someone hasn't just jumpered the ground from an older 3 prong outlet, it's safe to use with 120v appliances.

 

[plain2car]

annoy,
that is a strong possibility??? the recept. wiring, & all else is brand new along with the house. so all is good as far as equipment goes.
so annoy,
what you described would /could it work to operate a smaller 110v welder by itself on a outlet? just as you described above?? that would be a very good possibility. if i understand right basically the box & outlets are an extension cord from the main outlet & "broke" down into four smaller outlets?? sorry for the rough description.. i am by no means a electrician...LOL!!

 

[cdenton]

Seems to me that you can swap the breaker (now 20A max) and rewire the outlet for a standard receptacle. Not a big deal.

 

[Norcal]

Seems to me that you can swap the breaker (now 20A max) and rewire the outlet for a standard receptacle. Not a big deal.

Nope, it is not that simple. If you oversize the ungrounded (hot) conductors you must increase the grounding conductor proportionally, per NEC art. 250.122(B), the grounding conductor in a 8 or 6 AWG NM cable is 10 AWG, which would become too small.

 

[cdenton]

So, a 10 awg ground is too small for a 20A circuit? If the outlet was installed with 50A capability then it should have ground rated for a 50A service which, it would seem, would be enough for a 20 A service.

 

[Norcal]

So, a 10 awg ground is too small for a 20A circuit? If the outlet was installed with 50A capability then it should have ground rated for a 50A service which, it would seem, would be enough for a 20 A service.

Here is a copy & paste from the 2008 NEC. 250.122(B)

(B) Increased in Size. Where ungrounded conductors are
increased in size, equipment grounding conductors, where
installed, shall be increased in size proportionately according
to the circular mil area of the ungrounded conductors.


When you oversize conductors & the wiring method is NM cable, they are in fact undersized, if conductors were in a metallic conduit & the conduit was being used as the grounding conductor, there is no issue, pull a seperate grounding conductor that has not been increased to comply w/ 250.122(B), or have one in a factory cable assembly, then you have a conflict w/ that code section.

 

[theoldwizard1]

what you described would /could it work to operate a smaller 110v welder by itself on a outlet? just as you described above?? that would be a very good possibility. if i understand right basically the box & outlets are an extension cord from the main outlet & "broke" down into four smaller outlets?? sorry for the rough description.. i am by no means a electrician...LOL!!

Correct. You can put 15A or 20A breakers in the breaker box. Use a 20A breaker for the welder circuit and a 20A receptacle (Ask specifically for a 20A receptacle. It should say NEMA 5-20R on the package).

I am not an electrician so the 2 questions I have for such a setup are

1. Is a "main" required in breaker box in this setup ?
2. What gauge for the "cord", assuming < 10' ? 6 gauge ?

Shop eBay. You can get 10' of 6/4 SOOW cord for under $50 ! Finding a 50A plug (NEMA 14-50P or L14-50P) will be expensive.

If you have conduit between the breaker box and the outlet boxes (recommended), you can just buy 5-10 feet of 12 gauge THHN in black, white read and green to wire everything up.

Edit: I just found out that if your 50A receptacle in non-locking (14-50R) then you can buy a range (electric stove) power cord that will have the proper plug (14-50P) and a 3-4' pig tail for under $50.

 

[RPH]

How about pulling the outlet and installing a sub panel?
Then run outlets with proper cb's and wiring.

 

[Berserker]

Put a small sub panel in the garage. Then you can run multiple 110v outlet and still have a 20-30A 220V outlet.

Thats what I would do, as long as neutral was pulled. Though you could possibly convert a 220 to 120 in the main panel.

Running a new circuit, can be a pain in the ****.

 

[Berserker]

I am not an electrician so the 2 questions I have for such a setup are

1. Is a "main" required in breaker box in this setup ?
   [

The breaker in the main panel is protecting the wire to the sub panel. The smaller breakers in the sub panel are protecting the wires and devices from there. You don't need a main in the subpanel

 

[plain2car]

whoa.. this is alot of info. that is waaay over my head!! i appreciate the info. i guess what i was invisioning was a "extension" chord connection from the 220v plug to a "box-panel" with maybe 2 regular 110v receptacles. the box i figured would have any required safety items & fuses required to meet "code". i am not presently using the outlet but was trying to figure a way to use until i actually get any equipment requiring 220v (ie: welder). but for now i am going to have a small 110v welder that needs it own oultlet so i won't trip breakers in the garage now...

thanks for all the info guys!.... this is what a good board is supposed to be like!! you guys are cool!
plain2car

 

[theoldwizard1]

whoa.. this is alot of info. that is waaay over my head!! i appreciate the info. i guess what i was invisioning was a "extension" chord connection from the 220v plug to a "box-panel" with maybe 2 regular 110v receptacles. the box i figured would have any required safety items & fuses required to meet "code".

That was what I said, in a more technical way.

"box-panel" = "breaker box"
"fuse" = "breaker"

 

[plain2car]

OLDWIZARD,
thanks!! i kinda thought that i just needed to "dummy" it down for me!! LOL!! anyways i think that is what i am going to do, as long as it is a safe option & is not breaking any codes. it will for sure help me to have some more power options in the garage for now!!

thanks!!
plain2car

 

[theoldwizard1]

stuart,
i believe the receptacle is a 4 prong outlet, what ever one is the more rare to be used....that is my luck! LOL!!

Google is your friend !

Here is a nice chart showing the different style of plugs/receptacles for different voltages and currents. Your is probably one of the last 3 or 4.

NEMA Plugs & Receptacles

If there is a letter "L" prefix, it is a locking plug/receptacle, meaning you can lock it in place with a bit of a twist.

If there is a letter "P" suffix, it is a plug (male).

If there is a letter "R" suffix, it is a receptacle (female).

The number before the dash is the voltage/phases

• 5 = 1 phase 125V
• 6 = 1 phase 250V
• 14 = 3 phase, 125/250V

The number after the dash is the current (amp) rating.


Amazing what you learn digging around underneath large computer room floors !

 

[plain2car]

Amazing what you learn digging around underneath large computer room floors !

ooohhhh so your THAT guy!!

WIZARD, thanks for the info.! and the time.....

plain2car

 

[plain2car]

well guys i finally completed the task of the "sub panel" addition! i don't have any pics of the handy work (yet). believe it or not i was able to hook everything up & it all work the very first time & i did not blow anything & nothing caught on fire!!! i am pretty proud of the accomplishment.... to you elect. gurus it seem a little task, but to me it was a really big endeavor!!!

thanks to all that took time to give me advice (which was right!) & answered all the little questions!!!

 

[Sangre]

plain,

I would highly recommend you contact your local electrical inspector to inspect your work for you and your families safety..and it probably is required by local ordinances. In Ky homeowners can legally perform electrical work on their own homes without an electrical license but the work still requires an inspection.

 

[eriksalo]

The big issue is that you are going from two "hot" conductors to one hot and one neutral.

If you re-route everything correctly in your supply box, it will be OK. Bigger wire is OK from a safety point of view (maybe not from a code point of view).

Overall, I like the idea of talking to your local inspector. Most of them are pretty good guys and they have your safety in mind.

 

[plain2car]

all,
thanks for all the help & sugg. all is working great!! i recently had a inspector look at it and he was satisfied with the work & he was impressed with the overall idea......

 

[RCStocker]

How about pulling the outlet and installing a sub panel?
Then run outlets with proper cb's and wiring.

No. The amps in the sub box have a limit becasue the longer the run will cause a voltage drop if the wire is not large enough.

Whre electric stoves or dryers are installed I have split the the lines but you need to run another ground wire. 220 is just 2 - 110 volt lines. You need a seperate ground for both runs. If you have a double breaker with a bar between the 2 breakers all you need to do is cut the bar so one does not hold the other back if it blows. If you need a different amp size then you need to replace them. A breaker will only take so much amp draw before it trips.
220v takes half the amps to run a moter than 110v. That is why many machnes have smaller wires on their moters. It just depends on the amps and the length from the breaker. I use the 220v in my garage for the dryer when I roll a table saw or pice of machinery in that requires 220. It is handy to have. I have gas so it does not matter. I would leave the line incase you sell the place and the next owner needs it. I would put in a sub pannel and just run new lines in conduit where you need them.

The good cooks want a gas stove and an electic oven They have a more even heat. Leave it alone and put in the sub pannel.