50 by 60 design and layout... 48 by 68 build

[stamanti]

I have moved to a new house with enough land to build a 50' by 60' garage.

The size is dictated by my site and budget. I have been working up the interior layout and would like any advice people would be willing to offer regarding layout and construction.

Building will be clear span steel frame with shingle roof and siding over zipwall system. Spray foam insulation. In floor radiant heat with forced air ac system.

Grade runs away from the building on the 60 foot sides steeply. There is a ledge to the left of the man door, hence the single 20 foot door to the right.

The aisle in the middle of the garage eats up a lot of space, but maybe someone could share some insight in how to utilize that space better?

 

[jkwilson]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Looks like a lot of moving dusty vehicles around.

Nearly square buildings tend to be somewhat awkward. I'd elongate the building, add many more doors and isolate the shop with walls to control the dust.

Maybe with a site picture or diagram somebody will have a better idea for you.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Here is a topographical view with the garage location in red.

To the right of the garage is the only flat area of the lot, and I don't want to sacrifice it for the garage. The property is on the top of a small hill, so locations are limited.

The site is not suitable for a long garage with multiple doors, without sacrificing something else.

 

[sberry]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I like square, this aint bad but is a little busy from storage to work in. I have a head cold so complicated layout is beyond me today and I really need to get a good sketch deal to do thsee.

 

[matt_i]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

If you are doing ducted, forced-air air-conditioning, I would personally just get a residential-style furnace. Seems like you could save on the order of $1000 by not building separate heating and air conditioning systems. Your location could give more insight also into the effectiveness of either.

With what I think I see is an 8 foot run across the 60 foot dimension, you are either going to have to carve a lot of dirt or fill a lot of dirt (stone, etc).

Relative to utilizing space better the only good idea I have is the rollerjack dollies.

 

[sberry]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

If a guy has this much stuff worth storing he needs to build extra for it.

 

[Kevin54]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

tsamanti....after looking the plan over, I like it. It looks to me like you have utilized in the best way you could and still have some room to move around. The ONLY thing I can see is that you always could downsize the bathroom to maybe a 5x10 to gain you a little space but it makes for a small bathroom. Are you going to put a large shower in, or just like the space for a sink and toilet?

If you would, could you put your state into your profile. It does help to answer questions from time to time. Besides that, you may have some neighbors close to you that are also members. It does help to meet new friends too. Thanks.

 

[kevincook]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Put all of the cars on lifts where the yellow car is. Four lifts, eight cars.

This will leave the rest of the shop wide open.

Also, enclose the shop area to contain the sawdust.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Thanks for the replies. I'm in Massachusetts. I will update my profile.

I don't have own the cars shown, they are aspirational. Right now i have a 240z, e46 m3 and B5 s4. The design is to allow for a row of 4 post lifts along the lower side as needed. I have the bendpak mid rise already, and plan on purchasing the xp10A-LP as part of the first phase of construction.

My business is HVAC so the two systems isn't much of a hardship. I really like radiant, but need AC for at least dehumidification.

As far as separating the dirty work space from the storage space, has anyone had luck using welding curtains or something of that sort? I don't want to be locked into a floor plan, and would like any partitions flexible.

Regarding the site work, the plan is for a lot of fill. The site is ledge at and just below the surface, so going down is much more expensive than going up.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I had a meeting last week with my architect and he is recommending exterior rigid foam insulation instead of interior spray foam.

Has anyone gone the exterior rigid insulation route for the walls and the roof? The concept makes sense to be, but I don't know if it will make for as tight a final building.

My Arch's contention is that the exterior rigid insulation is a consistent barrier with thermal bridges eliminated.

 

[matt_i]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I would be more worried about solid attachment of the siding and roofing. Depending on thickness, extra length fasteners can be used but imo not quite as rigid.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

The roof would require a secondary layer of plywood on top of the insulation lagged to the primary structure. The wall siding could be affixed with long screws.

 

[larry_g]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

If you look at my shop you will see that I went to the point of making a room for the machine tools. Machine tools will quickly loose precision if the ways are exposed to grinder dust and the wood shavings will gum up the works. Can you define what you are, as in woodworker, machinist, metal fab, car collector or car mechanic? Or something else? I found that in my first shop I tried to make it a universal do all place. Over time I figured out what I don't do and eliminated those capabilities.

I second that the restroom is to big. I also really like the radiant heat. Nothing better than walking up to a machine that has warm surfaces.

lg
no neat sigline

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

The rest room is overly large, because it will be a changing room and rest room for the future pool we would like to build next to the back side of the garage.

As far as a definition as to what I am? I wrench on cars for a hobby.

I do some around the house wood working, but only utilitarian stuff, and I could keep those tools in the house. Fabrication tasks will consist of motor mounts and chassis braces. Future automotive projects I have in the drawing board phase are things like a turbo or NA LS swap into volvo 240 wagon, making my track prepped 240Z with a blown engine back into a good street car with a zz4 small block, ac, and fuel injection.

The primary purposes of this space is car storage, maintenance, and performance improvement.

 

[ASHMAN_AZ]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

How tall will the walls be? If you enclosed your work shop area, could do mezzanine storage over it.

Could make the mezanine out of steel and use the 4 post lift to store cars on the mezzanine.

Can you do two garage doors?

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Walls will be 12 feet tall. Code limits accessory building height to 22 ft. I think 14 ft walls would be too industrial for my residential location.

I do like the idea of a mezzanine. Car storage on the mezzanine is interesting, but I would guess those cars would never get used. I plan on using the space above the bathroom for storage in addition to the pallet racks.

I might be able to make a second garage door work, and that would add some flexibility. If I did that, I would probably rotate the 4 post lift clockwise 90 degrees.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I'm also thinking of covering the 12' of interior walls with plywood to make mounting tools and general storage easier. Plywood is also more robust and i could do 24" stud spacing. The roof would be drywalled. Anyone have experience with this?

I keep going back and forth on painting the plywood, or giving it a coat of tonge oil. How would you do it?

 

[larry_g]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I'm also thinking of covering the 12' of interior walls with plywood to make mounting tools and general storage easier. Plywood is also more robust and i could do 24" stud spacing. The roof would be drywalled. Anyone have experience with this?

I keep going back and forth on painting the plywood, or giving it a coat of tonge oil. How would you do it?

Just a thought 16" vs 24" stud spacing. Last time I had to buy 24" insulation bats they were quite a bit more expensive than 16". What you save on studs you may spend on insulation...

lg
no neat sig line

 

[CTyankee]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I had a meeting last week with my architect and he is recommending exterior rigid foam insulation instead of interior spray foam.

Has anyone gone the exterior rigid insulation route for the walls and the roof? The concept makes sense to be, but I don't know if it will make for as tight a final building.

My Arch's contention is that the exterior rigid insulation is a consistent barrier with thermal bridges eliminated.

We've built/retrofitted 4 homes this way over the past few years. If done properly it will create an extreme tight structure. A "truer" R value is also achieved due to the elimination of the thermal bridging.

The roof would require a secondary layer of plywood on top of the insulation lagged to the primary structure. The wall siding could be affixed with long screws.

Our procedure on the roof, we use a 2X batten system which are lagged(vertically) through the foam into the rafters. The plywood is then attached to the battens to accept the roofing surface. This provides the for a very stable platform and the ability to vent the roof surface...debatable if necessary, but something we always.

On the walls, we again use a batten system over the foam. Vertical for clapboard/vinyl, horizontal for shingles...but no secondary plywood layer. All the windows/doors are installed on the exterior sheathing recessed into the foam. Extension jabs are required to trim the openings.

Soffits, flashing, etc. require planning. An HRV system is pretty much going to be needed. Building design...ie dormers, multiple roof plans makes for a more time consuming build.

If you do go this route...Make sure you find someone who has some experience doing this type of work. It's a lot more involved than just slapping 3 inches of foam on the side of the structure and then using long fasteners to attach the siding.

 

[ZRX61]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

No reason for the pisser to be bigger than 4x6. Changing room for the pool could be a cabana type deal by the pool or even as a lean to type arrangement on the side of the garage.

Something like this:

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Ctyankee, that is the type of info i was looking for. Thanks.

Zrx61, that is a great idea for a changing area. The bathroom will shrink.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I reworked the layout and moved the two post lift into one of the corners at an angle. I like the way this makes for more bench space near the car on the lift.

I also shrunk the bathroom. This arrangement allows for parking of one more car.

 

[J Dogg Z28]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Seems like the approach to the lifts should be in line with the garage doors, to make it simpler to get vehicles (especially long trucks) on and off.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I revised the design again, and though it may take more site work, the layout is more efficient for storage and minimizing corridor space if I can make a central door work.

One reason why I wasn't including a central door on the 50' wall was to allow for 4 post lifts, but eliminating the 4 post lift removes the obstruction of it from the doorway, allows the garage door to be centered on the wall, and allows for parking of 2 more cars without having to stack any. Probably my best bet if I can economically remove the ledge in the way.

 

[GarageView]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Lot's of great info! Thanks for posting your build...

 

[zcar751]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Might I suggest parking four 4 post lifts on the back wall and moving your working space to the left and right wall separating the wood working to one side and the metal work/auto to the other. Also move the bathroom to the front corner near the bay door. You also need to put in at least one man door. With a building that large I would do two or you will always find yourself on the opposite side of the building when you want to go in or out.

 

[Onewolf]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Reducing the size of the bathroom was the correct call. The full bathroom in our detached garage/workshop is 5'x8' and it includes a 5'x3' shower while still leaving plenty of space for the throne and utility sink/vanity.

I think the first time you use a wood saw or sander you will regret not having an enclosed area for your wood working tools.

The 5x8 bathroom:

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I hear what you are saying about the wood working tools. I think I'm going to keep the woodworking tools in the existing attached 2 car garage.

Onewolf, I like that sink. Do you know who makes it?

Zcar751, I tried your suggested reorientation, but it looks like I will be doing a lot of car shuffling. One of my goals is to make using any of the cars easy. Having to shuffle cars around or use a lift makes it difficult. That is why I'm now planning on eliminating the 4 post lifts entirely. Also the approach to the 2 post lift will be a many point turn.

 

[jkwilson]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

If you plan on using any of those vehicles regularly, you aren't going to like that. I'd be looking at 3 doors on the right side and stack cars two or three deep.

With 90 degree parking, the minimum aisle design width for a parking area is 24'. Assuming 2 16' vehicles parked 1ft from the wall, you would be about 10ft short of having enough aisle width to use it. With a truck on one side and a car on the other your aisle will only give you 2ft on each side of the entering vehicle. No way you can park it.

 

[Onewolf]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I hear what you are saying about the wood working tools. I think I'm going to keep the woodworking tools in the existing attached 2 car garage.

Onewolf, I like that sink. Do you know who makes it?

It's a combination sink/vanity/faucet from Home Despot. The sink seems nice and sturdy and has a splatter finish which should be good for hiding some of the paint brush cleaning residue.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

JKwilson, You are right about the 90 degree parking. My plan is to back the cars in, but it is probably going to lead to problems.

I think canting the cars should eliminate that issue.

Onewolf, thanks for the make and model information.

 

[Autorotica]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

if you can make your building longer and taller. This gives you way more options....

Chris

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Chris,

I wish I could, but the budget dictates otherwise. The exterior of the garage will be wood clapboards, and there will be 4 dormers with windows in effort to compliment my 150 year old victorian house. These exterior features will substantially drive up my construction costs over a comparable metal building without dormers, but these features are necessary in my mind.

 

[sundevil64]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

What program are you using for drawings?

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I am using bluebeam revu. It is more of a pdf editing than a drafting software, but i use it for construction management every day.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Does anyone have an awning over their garage door? Do you like it? Is it functional or purely aesthetic?

I am thinking about adding a hipped awning over the garage door and man door. This may require deletion of the diamond lite window above it.

 

[sz0k30]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I like your drawings and your layouts. I think for easiest car ingress/egress the last layout seems to be the best. Its a ***** when the terrain dictates the size, orientation and layout of a bldg. I had the same issue many years ago. Sometimes you just can't get what you want, but have to make the best of what you can get.

By the way, where did you find the detailed views of the cars?

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Thanks.

I found the detailed views via google image search.

I used search terms such as "Porsche 964 plan view" or "Ferrari 458 dimensions."

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Reworked the design with a mezzanine and an awning. Structure grew to 50 by 66. I rolled the mezzaniene into the awning space, which I think is an efficient use of space. I will probably put a staircase in the south west corner. 3 steps going south and then the balance of steps going east.

 

[Autorotica]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Reworked the design with a mezzanine and an awning. Structure grew to 50 by 66. I rolled the mezzaniene into the awning space, which I think is an efficient use of space. I will probably put a staircase in the south west corner. 3 steps going south and then the balance of steps going east.

I would suggest you forgo the mezzanine now in favor of an increased footprint to stick within budget. You can always do the mezzanine later if still necessary.

Your floorplan looks great on paper. In practice it will be difficult (but not impossible) to maintain.

Chris