50 by 60 design and layout... 48 by 68 build

[don long]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I've been studying your layout and would encourage you to rethink loosing your 4 post lift .They are very handy and you can store cars on and under them as well. I would consider moving the bath to the lower right corner, and put the 4 post in the upper left corner then park 2 cars in front of the lift
I would put the 2 post next to the 4 post leaving room for your toolboxes to be on the wall behind the lifts so your tools are within reach when needed.
with 60 feet in depth you have enough room to park 3 cars bumper to bumper and by leaving the center isle open ,you can pull any car out or in without moving another car and still be able to load and unload the 2 post freely

Most parking bays are 10 foot wide and with a 50 foot width you are using less than half the width for parking and both car lines can use the center lane to come and go

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Chris,

I may be able to increase the width to 55 feet, not sure I could get to 60 feet wide. Would would be an ideal length and width?

Don, I get what you mean about the 4 post lifts. My dad swears by them. Are either of the attached orientations what you would recommend?

Thanks for the input.

Steve

 

[TooMuchHair]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

You should take a serious look at ICF for the building. I am very thankful for meeting a NUDURA ICF rep right before starting my 60'x60' shop 2 years ago. I also wanted A/C, so we went with a 4 ton heat pump, the building is so tight and well insulated with R-60 blown in fiberglass in the vaulted attic that so far electric usage has been incredibly low. I did 2 of my walls with no openings for layout flexibility and security. In the other 2 I have 4- 48"x96" casement windows, a 46" wide steel entry door and a Raynor 16' wide x 13'-6" high R-17 garage door. I love my square shop. I have plenty of flat ground to build whatever I wanted to and studied until I turned gray Ha. It's perfect for us. 2' overhangs with 10'-6" sidewalls combined with the vaulted trusses for a 16'-2" ceiling at the peak fits in nicely in our neighborhood.

 

[FunkyfullWidth]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

A few things I've learned...

-If I have the space it gets taken up.
-If I take up the space, I find I need it for something else.
-Work seems to spread out far more than you'd think.
-Anything to do with metal work makes a huge mess.
-Everything seems bigger on paper

My garage space gets quickly taken over If I have a few cars in it. I can only imagine 8 cars... I know you said that's not what you have. What about adding a car port or other type of enclosure on the side of the building? Can we get some pics of the land?

I wouldn't want my welding bench near where I'm parking cars. Glass, paint, plastic all get destroyed by grinders and welders no matter how carefully you aim the sparks. It seems like your showing a lot of bare walls near where the cars are... Trust me, you'll want to fill those voids someday, then cars will be way more tightly packed, going with the theoretical 8.
Mezzanines are great, but even greater if you have the headroom above to stand up straight on them. Trust me, bending over gets old fast up there.

 

[Chris705]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Don't think I have read any consideration or elimination of attic trusses yet?

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Nudura ICF is an interesting product. The plan right now is a steel structure consisting of 5 column and rafter pair assemblies, but I will ask my structural engineer about concrete options.

I have attached a photo of the land with a rough overlay of where the garage will sit. The property is very rocky. The only flat area on the site is to the right of the garage and would sit about 6 feet lower than the garage with the way the grade works. I also don't want to eat up the only flat land with structure.

To separate the clean area from the dirty area I am planning on using an industrial curtain system like this:

http://www.strongarmstore.com/shop/...ack-system-1?gclid=CLTFtK3I78kCFZEXHwodDk4Kiw

which will run across the shop.

The mezz will have more than 6 feet of head room for the middle 15 feet of the 50 foot width. Not ideal by any means, but I think usable.

 

[TooMuchHair]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I was almost ready to order a metal building from Olympia, we even took a trip to PA to check out the factory. When we got back I decided to go to the big home show in St.Louis, thats when I met my Nudura rep. He pointed out to me that much of the strength of metal buildings comes from the foundation. With ICF a simpler footing is used and the strength is in the design of the wall itself. So $$$ turn out comparable and you can use a traditional wooden truss system (goes well with a shingle roof) and R-60 in the attic will cost way less than even R-30 with the metal system. Actually, when I studied the issues of insulating the metal buildings properly that was my tipping point to decide ICF. It is fantastic Good Luck Will you be able to have footings below the frost line or ...????

 

[kv501]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

To separate the clean area from the dirty area I am planning on using an industrial curtain system like this:

http://www.strongarmstore.com/shop/...ack-system-1?gclid=CLTFtK3I78kCFZEXHwodDk4Kiw

which will run across the shop.

Unless that curtain is tight to the ceiling you're going to have dust problems in every square inch of that shop. Table saws and band saws are the worst offenders. We're not talking chips and sawdust that you can see on the floor, this stuff is airborne and the next day you'll come in the shop and find a fine layer of baby powderish dust all over your expensive cars, cycles, and machines (really really not good for mills/lathes/etc.). People spend huge bank on intricate dust collection systems and only hope to minimize it as much as possible.

I realize it's only going to be periodic use, but if you rip a few sheets of plywood down you're going to have a mess guaranteed. Wood tools at the very least need their own room. Wait till that stuff collects inside your welders and makes paste out of the grease on your lathe and drill press.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

My version control appears to be slipping. My intent is to keep woodworking out of the new garage. The table saw and miter saw will not be used or stored there.

The band saw is for metal, not wood.

I don't want to compromise or compartmentalize the whole space, so woodworking will have to be elsewhere in its own closed off space.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Not too much of an update. Site survey has been done, and we are waiting on the soil engineer's report so that we can detail the structural drawings. Current arch drawings attached. Our goal is to apply for the permit in April.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

After reading Platonic Solid's Light Fixture Layout Collections thread I have been attempting to teach myself DIALux. I have a hack and slash version of a model built and it looks like 10 rows of lights will give me at least 90 FC on my work plane.

Selecting fixtures in DIALux is not that easy. What are people using in the software that they can actually purchase in the US? I have a strong preference for LED fixtures. I am using QLF 235/BE as my luminaires in the model.

 

[Blue XJ]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Do you really need storage for 9 cars all the time? It looks like you are getting rid of a lift in order to park another car. I would rather have the lift. With 9 cars, there is no way you wouldn't have more than 1 on a lift at a time working on them.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

The plan is for a 2 post asymmetric lift centered, and recessing my mid rise scissor into the slab as well. Which lift do you think I have gotten rid of?

I have deleted some cars so you can see both lifts.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I also don't have the skills to show the lifts in the DIALux lighting software, and for some reason my architect left out the lifts on their floor plan. I haven't received the revisions to their drawings which includes the lifts.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

We have have an approved permit!

However the structure designed by my architect and engineers is more than double my budget.

Emergency value engineering meeting scheduled for Thursday, so that we can break ground within the month, hopefully.

Tons of money ******* in steel, foundation, and architectural details. Building orientation will be modified to minimize size of retaining walls. Dormers and bump outs will go away. 10 foot overhang on the front gable wall will go away.

Looking into preengineered steel packages that we can then start from and modify to fit our original design instead of a custom steel package.

Hopefully better news after Thursday's meeting.

The one good thing is that the permit was issued without any planning board reviews.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

It has been a long time without an update, but the project is still moving forward.

I have a 48 by 68 Morton building on order. 4 dormers, shingle roof and hardi plank siding. Building is scheduled to be delivered in the beginning of January.

Site work is ongoing. Ledge removal took about a month between the hammering and blasting and the short Thanksgiving week.

Retaining wall work should begin next week, and then it will be a race against the winter to get the frost protected mono slab formed, poured and cured before the building shows up.

 

[Falcon67]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Nice building. Good luck, after looking at the topo, all I could think was "somebody's going to be moving a lot of dirt".

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Building delivery has been postponed to maybe march.

Step 0.1 remove ledge is complete.

Step 0.2 level the site nears completion.

Step 1 form and pour foundation is a weather dependent questionmark.

Meanwhile in the attached garage i have started repair work on my datsun.

 

[bcoke]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Been looking over your shop......great space planned... just a thought, I would place a "slop" sink in the shop [on the bathroom wall for easy plumbing access] ..I realize you will have a full bathroom but I find a deep laundry/slop sink in the shop for filling buckets of water.......washing rags..........etc keeps the bathroom clean and is more convient.....just a thought ...good luck with build.....bobbycoke

 

[swharris]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Congrats on moving forward. I'm doing something similar (60x35). I struggled with many of the issues you have. I won't need the place for as many cars as you, but it is very similar. I will have a mezzanine for storage(not cars) and am going to use the area under it for machines. I'm now thinking of walling off that space for dust control.

Are you still going with a bi-fold main door? Any ideas about cost differences between that and a roll up? Bids for my 23 foot door are over 7k! The wide opening is necessitated due to limited egress from a very narrow ally so I'm sorta stuck with a large door. Have you decided on what brand 2 post? I was also thinking of sinking a sicssor lift in as well. Great minds.....lol.

We are attaching a rental unit to the NE portion of the building, so some of the space has been compromised. Still it will be much better than what I'm dealing with now. The drawing below is not currently accurate, but it is basically what I'm going to do. Looking at it again now, I can see I'll need to rearrange the lift placement and put pallet racks on the S. wall.


Oh, and from one B5S4(Avant) owner to another, good to see someone else is a glutton for punishment ;-) My first car was a '72 240z too ;-) Is you name Steve too? Haha.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

SWHarris:

I moved away from the bifold door as part of my value engineering process. It would have been slick, but the 5K for motors and frame without sheathing are not justifiable right now. I will only have 3 cars and a 57 chevy 3100 in the garage for the foreseeable future, but I want to do this once and give myself ample room to grow into it. There also may be a 49 GMC COE taking up half the garage. I might be out of room already.

My B5S4 may look like my 240Z soon. Drove it a couple weeks ago, and the turbos flatlined. 0 Psi. Ran fine, no hoses slipped off, so my best guess is a stuck waste gate. Will probably end up replacing my original K03s. Nice layout. That 25 foot door will be awesome.

BCoke:

I will consider adding that sink there. That wall is where most of my work will take place, so I will have to see the space once the building is up and I have started to move in if I want to give up some bench space for a sink. It would most likely be worth it. My opinions on slop sinks is tainted because my old one car had one, which took up 28 inches of the 110 of overall width I had to work with. I cursed that thing constantly. However with 48 feet instead of 9 wide it is a different ball game.

Steve

 

[swharris]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Good luck making the pig turn. It can and has been done though. Mine is stg. 3 with Ko4 birds. She needs a lot of fixing as most B5s do. I'm fighting a wg imbalance issue. Think I've got a wonky wg on one side or it's adjusted wrong. No lift is one of the reasons I've not looked into it yet.

Good luck with the cars and the build. I'll post a build here soon as we get started.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Retaining wall is complete. Monday is forecasted to ge very rainy. Tuesday we hopefully start on utilities.

Before and current photos attached.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Better angle of the site..

 

[pmiranda]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Nice! I like the look of those retaining walls... I'm curious about the fill/compaction that was done?

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I believe the fill is 3/4 minus. Compacted in 8" lifts with a plate compactor.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Plumbing underground waste is installed, inspected and backfilled. Sanitary connection to the septic system was completed this morning. I revised the shop layout so that a slop sink is recessed into the wall next to the bathroom. I think this will work out well, and will minimally impact the space. I also relocated the water heater, boiler, and compressor which saved 40 feet of underground plumbing, and a extra vent through the roof.

As many other people have done, I am recessing my Bendpak mid rise scissor lift in the slab. Conventionally forming it would require one pour for the lift depression, and another for the slab. I decided to make the form permanently embedded in the concrete. the frame is made of 2" angle iron, with 6" extensions made from 1/4" plate. The lift cover / lift table work bench will be made from 1/4" plate and will sit proud of the floor by only a 1/4."

I added 4 more threaded rod loops to engage the concrete after the painted photo was taken, but did not take any pics of that.

 

[zmotorsports]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Subscribed.

Mike.

 

[pmiranda]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

That scissor lift frame is pretty slick!

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Thanks. Hope it works as expected when we pour the monoslab.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Had a light dusting of snow the other day, and it has been a quiter week on the construction work.

Found out that we need to get the ledge removal contractor back to create a workable bed for the utility trench from the garage to the house. Site is a bit compressed so the trench to the house was not opened up until recently.

Wood for forms was delivered today. Where i park at the monent is getting more constrained by sand for trench backfill and a few pallets of excess block from the wall that i dont know when will be returned for credit.

Pex for the in slab radiant is on hand. Hopefully we will be laying out the twelve 300' loops by the end of next week, but that may be overly optomistic given the forecast for snow tuesday.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I don't usually get to see my house during daylight during the winter workweek. Didn't notice until this morning that the scissor lift form / frame was mocked up in place.

 

[FearTheH]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

This is gonna be a super awesome space man. I've been reading through the previous pages, and I'm excited to see the finished product! I'm sure you're more than ready to have it done by now as well!

 

[sberry]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I am a fan of working thru a single door if I can in a building like this.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Oh, and from one B5S4(Avant) owner to another, good to see someone else is a glutton for punishment ;-) My first car was a '72 240z too ;-) Is you name Steve too? Haha.

swharris, must have missed that last sentence from your post till just now, but yes, my name is Steve as well.

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

Concrete forms have started. Need to be completed and braced.

Reinforcement steel to be delivered monday.

There is some frost in the ground, but there is some warmer weather forecast for mid week. We can't put down the underslab xps until the frost goes. If we put the foam down now it would keep the frost in.

 

[arkracing]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I have just a small suggestion. Looks like you do some engine work on your cars. If you are planning to use a asymmetrical lift I would highly suggest considering turning it around so you have to back the vehicle on the lift. It will give you more room to work on the front of the vehicle.

FYI I have a shop that I work in everyday. I set all 3 of my lifts up this way. I also do a lot of engine swaps, but it baffles me why shops don't set up at least one lift this way. When you have it up against your wall or bench you end up feeling cramped.

There are advantages to both ways.

My humble suggestion. BTW Nice shop & set up....I'm in RI so not to far from you

 

[swharris]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I have just a small suggestion. Looks like you do some engine work on your cars. If you are planning to use a asymmetrical lift I would highly suggest considering turning it around so you have to back the vehicle on the lift. It will give you more room to work on the front of the vehicle.

How much room do you suggest be in front of a lift if you are going to do motor swaps? Distance from front of car/truck to work bench?

Thanks.

 

[swharris]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I don't usually get to see my house during daylight during the winter workweek. Didn't notice until this morning that the scissor lift form / frame was mocked up in place.

I take it the hole in the frame is for electrical? Are you just laying PVC in the slab at pour time?

I think I'd like to put one of those low rise lifts in the future, but I don't have the funds currently. I wonder how I could pre lay the conduit during the main pour but be able to find it later if/when I get the low rise. I'd just cut the slab and put it in then. Think that is possible? I guess I'll really need to plan the placement out now.

Shop is looking great!

 

[stamanti]

Re: 50 by 60 design and layout

I have just a small suggestion. Looks like you do some engine work on your cars. If you are planning to use a asymmetrical lift I would highly suggest considering turning it around so you have to back the vehicle on the lift. It will give you more room to work on the front of the vehicle.

FYI I have a shop that I work in everyday. I set all 3 of my lifts up this way. I also do a lot of engine swaps, but it baffles me why shops don't set up at least one lift this way. When you have it up against your wall or bench you end up feeling cramped.

There are advantages to both ways.

My humble suggestion. BTW Nice shop & set up....I'm in RI so not to far from you

That is a pretty good idea. I'll consider it.

swharris: the hole is for a 2" PVC sleeve for the hydraulic line for the lift.