500 sq/ft table saw recommendations?

[asilker]

Hey people! I am at a point in my home reno where I simply need a good table saw. I'm planning on setting up a permanent wood shop in my 500sq/ft garage, so I am looking for something that's more or less permanent. Currently I am looking at something like the Delta contractor T2 10" saw.

I am very familiar with drive systems in 40's and 50's turntables (belts, idlers, eddy currents, etc) as well as bicycles -- so I have some type of exposure to the benefits of belts VS direct drive etc

What else should I be looking for? I am imagining something smaller and more lightweight than a full 220 industrial rig, but most definitely more robust than a jobsite Ryobi.

Restore an old craftsman? Restore an old rockwell? Some kind of sleeper machine that folks in the know can point me toward?

Thanks in advance for any help

 

[tyyost]

Delta Rockwell contractor saws come up often in my area for a low cost. They are a great value as they usually have decent 1 1/2hp motors and will eat most materials you will come across. I have a Bosch 4100 portable saw and a Grizzly 1023 and picked up a nice Rockwell 10” contractors saw and it’s been a great filling the gap while I don’t have 220 for the Grizzly. One of the best parts is that they use the same accessories as the Unisaw so table inserts, miter gauges, etc are plentiful. I almost bought a second the other day for $200 because it came with a 50” Unifence…

 

[AEAdam]

Consider a track saw Instead. Unless you are constantly ripping solid wood for flooring or similar, skip the table saw.

Both Milwaukee and Makita have outstanding models. Depending on what you are doing these can be anywhere from acceptable substitutes to flat out superior. The cost of a TS big enough and high enough quality to handle plywood won’t even be close to the cost of the most expensive track saw.


oh, and lots of guys have both because they bought their table saws first. Having a track saw doesn’t mean you will never own a tablesaw. But chances are high , with so little space, you’ll put off the TS once you buy a tracksaw. I’ve yet to buy any stationary woodworking tools.

 

[neophyte]

The “standard” for tablesaws in the USA used to be the 10” Delta cabinet tables saws.
These used to be available with a 120v motor on the lower power side, to higher horsepower versions on the more powerful versions, with the main differences being the motor and motor controllers supplied.
Powermatic also offered similar options that were made in the USA, but which might have been finished slightly better.
Contractor saws offered similar motor options to the lower powered cabinet saws, but with a worse layout, and a lower cost.
Older saws have non guarded drive belts which can be a safety issue. (Some cable show I saw once showed a guy whose ***** had been torn up when it got caught in a drive belt, and Contractor saws have the belt at just the right height.)
Newer saws are more likely to have covered belts.
The other issue was dust collection, which tended to not be great on contractor saws, and cabinet saws weren’t great in that regard to begin with.
The major advantage with current new saws is safer blade features such as riving knives and better dust collection, if you want to purchase new.
I would avoid a benchtop saw ( Bosch, Dewalt, Ryobi, etc) unless you need the portability.
Cabinet saws are usually better than contractor saws with the same motor size, unless you need the slightly extra portability of a contractors saw.

 

[jar944]

I'd look for a unisaw, pm66 or similar. I prefer the 66 to the uni for a few reasons but either will work well and the deltas are typically a bit cheaper. Clones of either work as well.

 

[jbfsr]

10" 2 HP 115V/230V Cabinet Saw at Grizzly.com

<h1>G0899 10" 2 HP 115V/230V Cabinet Table Saw</h1> <h2>The perfect balance of power, precision, and price in a table saw.</h2> <p>We took our rock-solid 10" table saw platform with a powerful 2 HP TEFC motor and paired it with the most efficient dust collection system we could design.</p>...

www.grizzly.com

Check out Grizzly. Been very pleased with mine.

 

[rancherbill]

It's hard to tell from a part number but the Delta contractor T2 10" saw sounds good. Make sure it is heavy. There are two types of contractor saws - one you can move and load by yourself and one that is a two person job. Get the two person type. I have a Ridgid one and love it.

If I was buying one today I'd think long and hard about getting a track saw instead of a table saw. I have gone through all the things that I have done and the track saw won or tied compared to the table saw except for one job.

 

[nadogail]

I bought a 12” Sears Contractor Floor Saw used from a bankrupt contractor in the middle to late 70’s. It still does what I bought it for. The direct drive motor can be hooked up for either 120 or 220, it has been on 220 for over 40 years. It slices its way through 3/16 steel like a hot knife cuts warm butter.
When my son decided at 15 he was old enough to run the saw; I told him that “this saw is so dumb that the only difference it knows between Fingers and Boards is that Fingers are easier to Cut”

 

[PugetDude]

Bosch 4100 with gravity rise stand. Roll it out of the way when you;re not using it.
Buy the pull-out extension wings.

 

[tarmy]

Wheels are your friend…
Do yourself a favor and get a good cabinet saw and add stuff to it as needed. They will pay for themselves with a big cabinet job for the kitchen or shop.

 

[alinc100]

You don't say where you are located but here in SE Michigan with a bit of due diligence and hard looking you can find a Delta Unisaw for under $500. The vibration and smoothness is light years beyond most contractor saws. You also don't have the motor hanging out the back so it takes up less floor space than a contractors saw.

 

[milkovich]

I'm not sure if you're looking used or new but I really love my 90's Ryobi BT3000. It's light enough to be portable, it's a universal motor/belt drive (4700+rpm) and will drive a 6" dado no problem, the fence is pretty good for being aluminum, it has a roller on a track on the far edge. The dust collection is excellent! The only other saw I'd consider with your (and my) constraints is an old craftsman 113, but new enough that it has a knife and guard. It's not a true knife like the newer saws, but it is lightyears safer than nothing. The iron top has dual miter slots which is heavy but awesome, however the fence is pretty bad and there is zero dust collection. As far as a current production smaller saw, I think the bosch mentioned above would be ok but it's a 3650 rpm saw (direct drive).

 

[tjansson]

Wheels are your friend…
Do yourself a favor and get a good cabinet saw and add stuff to it as needed. They will pay for themselves with a big cabinet job for the kitchen or shop.

So you operate like pictured, on the casters? I was thinking about building a "cart" like that for my Craftsman saw but figured I'd need to drop it down to solid feet to keep it steady.

 

[Innovate1]

So you operate like pictured, on the casters? I was thinking about building a "cart" like that for my Craftsman saw but figured I'd need to drop it down to solid feet to keep it steady.

I built a cabinet base for my Craftsman with some good locking castors on it. It's very solid but then I made the cabinet a bit wider than the saw frame and about the width of the table with the extension wings. Much better then the flimsy legs on the stock base and gives me a spot to stick related tools.

 

[tarmy]

So you operate like pictured, on the casters? I was thinking about building a "cart" like that for my Craftsman saw but figured I'd need to drop it down to solid feet to keep it steady.

Yep. Get good non flat spot casters too. Look at that frame I made and notice how low that cabinet is. When locked that thing is not moving. I put it where I need for whatever the cutting plan is, especially if cutting down 3/4 cabinet grade plywood. I have an air filter directly over it as well.

 

[jives]

I just introduced my 25 year old niece to woodworking by building the classic high school woodshop stool. Table saw, jig saw, drill, router. Small pieces, large pieces, bevel cuts, angle cuts. Track saw could not handle most of it.

Working on some renovations for our church. Using a portable Bosch TS and a circular saw with a clamp on straight edge to rip down and cross cut full plywood sheets (with a helper). No need for a track saw.

Point? A table saw can do anything a track saw can do and considerably more. Dados, rabbitts, precision angles and bevels, ripping long strips from narrow boards, box joints, half laps, spline joints. . . the list is considerable. Get a table saw. Depending on your budget, get the Powermatic 66 or Delta Unisaw, or a contractor saw Delta, Powermatic, Craftsman, Grizzly. If a Craftsman, make sure it is belt drive. An Align-a-rip fence on the CM is a good fence. Late model Rigids -- the maker of CM saws -- can often be had for less because they are less well known.

 

[dnschmidt]

I have a Delta contractor's saw but the disadvantage of all such saws is the complete lack of dust collection with the open base. Get a cabinet saw of any type and hook it to a dust collector or you'll regret it for the rest of your life as I do.

 

[purplezr2]

What is your budget?


I always see tracksaws mentioned, which I believe they have their place(I have one), but I doubt I could replace my table saw with just my track saw.

Ideal world you could afford both....

 

[Hytekrednek]

I'd look for a unisaw, pm66 or similar. I prefer the 66 to the uni for a few reasons but either will work well and the deltas are typically a bit cheaper. Clones of either work as well.

I agree. I replace a Craftsman 1.5 hp contractor saw with a Delta Unisaw with 52'' unifence. I got it used but in excellent condition for $900. The craftsman worked but needed more power in some jobs with hardwood. A Powermatic with a beismier fence would be even better I think. I have no plans on getting rid of my Unisaw as it does everything I need and does it very very well. Once I tuned, trued, and calibrated it, it cuts straight, fast, clean, and without blade marks or burns "if you use a good blade".

 

[Crazyjake8493]

Consider a track saw Instead. Unless you are constantly ripping solid wood for flooring or similar, skip the table saw.

Both Milwaukee and Makita have outstanding models. Depending on what you are doing these can be anywhere from acceptable substitutes to flat out superior. The cost of a TS big enough and high enough quality to handle plywood won’t even be close to the cost of the most expensive track saw.


oh, and lots of guys have both because they bought their table saws first. Having a track saw doesn’t mean you will never own a tablesaw. But chances are high , with so little space, you’ll put off the TS once you buy a tracksaw. I’ve yet to buy any stationary woodworking tools.

A good table saw would be infinitely more useful than a track saw in a wood shop. The track saw is nice for breaking down sheet goods before going to the table saw, but that can also be done easily with any circular saw and a straight guide edge.

 

[AEAdam]

A good table saw would be infinitely more useful than a track saw in a wood shop. The track saw is nice for breaking down sheet goods before going to the table saw, but that can also be done easily with any circular saw and a straight guide edge.

just asking. Do you have a track saw? Relating a decent track saw to a circular saw and a straightedge sounds like a comment someone would make who has never used a track saw.

This is a “let them eat cake” discussion. A good table saw is expensive. The one in the picture above has an extension table, outfeed rollers, motion base, dust collection….that’s every bit of $3000.

whereas a good tracksaw could easily be less than $1000, and take up half the space. That space is money. That’s 8 or 10’ you could put tools or lumber in.

table saws shine for repetitive cuts, like those used for plywood projects. But there are jigs and appliances and tricks you can use to make track saws better at those kinds of operations.

the question isn’t “which is better?”. No tool matches the utility of the table saw. The question is, in a small low budget shop, is a cheap small table saw (contractor saw for example) worth the space compared to the best track saw which is comparably priced?

 

[aShop]

I would take a used contractor saw with a good fence over any track saw.

Track saws are good for sheet goods. I like working with solid wood.

 

[tjansson]

@tarmy
Thanks for the info. Love your setup. That's a killer finish on the table saw top too!

 

[neophyte]

just asking. Do you have a track saw? Relating a decent track saw to a circular saw and a straightedge sounds like a comment someone would make who has never used a track saw.

This is a “let them eat cake” discussion. A good table saw is expensive. The one in the picture above has an extension table, outfeed rollers, motion base, dust collection….that’s every bit of $3000.

whereas a good tracksaw could easily be less than $1000, and take up half the space. That space is money. That’s 8 or 10’ you could put tools or lumber in.

table saws shine for repetitive cuts, like those used for plywood projects. But there are jigs and appliances and tricks you can use to make track saws better at those kinds of operations.

the question isn’t “which is better?”. No tool matches the utility of the table saw. The question is, in a small low budget shop, is a cheap small table saw (contractor saw for example) worth the space compared to the best track saw which is comparably priced?

Track saws are made for breaking down sheet goods with fairly precise cuts, and in many cases are better than a tablesaw for the purpose.
If you want to precisely cut parallel pieces, and fo certain other cuts with the tracksaw, you have to start adding extra expensive accessories, such as longer rails, and parallel guides for the rails, and all of those accessories get expensive, fast.

There are plenty of types of work though that cannot be done with a tracksaw that can be done with a tablesaw.
Cutting joinery is a good example.
Most tablesaw accessories are also somewhat more reasonably priced than systems made for tracksaws, which are routinely proprietary to the track saw manufacturer.

 

[1949 caddyman]

For wheels these metal corners from harbor freight work for me. Rip some wood for the rails. The screw down pads hold well.

 

[AEAdam]

Track saws are made for breaking down sheet goods with fairly precise cuts, and in many cases are better than a tablesaw for the purpose.
If you want to precisely cut parallel pieces, and fo certain other cuts with the tracksaw, you have to start adding extra expensive accessories, such as longer rails, and parallel guides for the rails, and all of those accessories get expensive, fast.

There are plenty of types of work though that cannot be done with a tracksaw that can be done with a tablesaw.
Cutting joinery is a good example.
Most tablesaw accessories are also somewhat more reasonably priced than systems made for tracksaws, which are routinely proprietary to the track saw manufacturer.

Agree with some but not all.

sometimes lumber is twisted or warped such that it must be jointed prior to running through the table saw. That can be done with a tracksaw.

Most have depth settings that let you cut rabbets, dadoes, grooves etc, albeit with multiple passes. Most have cheap appliances for routers. Agree some of the parallel guides are expensive.

festool, Bosch, makita and Milwaukee all have compatible rails.

id say if you are clever, you can do most things a table saw can do, just a little less conveniently. The real advantage is the high quality for low cost, and the little space required, compared to stationary power tools.

I have an older bosch track saw set up and I’m getting ready to upgrade if anyone has any suggestions.

 

[jar944]

just asking. Do you have a track saw? Relating a decent track saw to a circular saw and a straightedge sounds like a comment someone would make who has never used a track saw.

This is a “let them eat cake” discussion. A good table saw is expensive. The one in the picture above has an extension table, outfeed rollers, motion base, dust collection….that’s every bit of $3000.

whereas a good tracksaw could easily be less than $1000, and take up half the space. That space is money. That’s 8 or 10’ you could put tools or lumber in.

table saws shine for repetitive cuts, like those used for plywood projects. But there are jigs and appliances and tricks you can use to make track saws better at those kinds of operations.

the question isn’t “which is better?”. No tool matches the utility of the table saw. The question is, in a small low budget shop, is a cheap small table saw (contractor saw for example) worth the space compared to the best track saw which is comparably priced?

I have both and I wouldn't personally want a tracksaw without a tablesaw, even a jobsite saw. The track saw compliments a table saw, and there are lots of tines where a track saw is "the tool" but trying to rip a pile of identical parts on a track saw is not something I ever want to to.

Track saws are nice for straight line ripping hardwood, breaking down sheet goods, cutting finished flooring in place for a remodel/change order, scribing cabinets or beveling for a scribe, odd angle cuts.. beveling the strike side of a passage door, cutting down passage doors, I could go on and on, and wouldn't be without one, I use mine all the time. But I still need a tablesaw.

 

[FTWingRiders]

A table saw and a track saw are both useful tools, and I use both depending on the job. I love my track saw to cut down sheet goods right out of the truck, then the table saw takes over.


I love my grizzly G0691. 10”, 3hp, 220v.
My shops not much over 500sq ft. But I wouldn’t skimp over having the right saw, so the run off table is also my main work area. Sometimes I need to think ahead and make most of my cuts beforehand, otherwise I might be in my own way, but I’m glad to have my cabinet saw setup.

 

[neophyte]

Agree with some but not all.

sometimes lumber is twisted or warped such that it must be jointed prior to running through the table saw. That can be done with a tracksaw.

Most have depth settings that let you cut rabbets, dadoes, grooves etc, albeit with multiple passes. Most have cheap appliances for routers. Agree some of the parallel guides are expensive.

festool, Bosch, makita and Milwaukee all have compatible rails.

id say if you are clever, you can do most things a table saw can do, just a little less conveniently. The real advantage is the high quality for low cost, and the little space required, compared to stationary power tools.

I have an older bosch track saw set up and I’m getting ready to upgrade if anyone has any suggestions.

You can straighten edges of lumber with a tablesaw, if you make a straight edge jig for the tablesaw.
Using the tablesaw might even be safer, unless the lumber is wide enough to fully support the tracksaw track, and the lumber is flat enough to prevent the saw from kicking back (I’ve had that happen, and judging by comments on the FOG Forum, it isn’t uncommon).

In general, I think it’s sort of necessary yo own both a tablesaw and a tracksaw, or at least a circular saw, with a set of straight home made cutting guides in various lengths.
One reason is a comment in a woodworking magazine I read years ago.
The comment was about trying to balance a horse on a kitchen stool, or something similar.

Trying to precisely move an 8’x4’ piece of plywood or other sheet good over a tablesaw is awkward, especially if you haven’t built auxiliary tables around the saw.
Trying to get an actual straight clean cut can be difficult, and if the sheet hangs too much over the sides of the saw, the sheet can bow above the blade, leading to safety issues and crappy cuts.
This is the situation where a tracksaw or circular saw makes sense.

For trying to cut precise joints in the end of a table leg, you might be able to do it with a tracksaw if you have something like the Festool
MFT, but the setup will not be as precise as what can be done with a tablesaw.

 

[AEAdam]

Ok all good. only comment I have is:

Table saws are expensive, dangerous AF, and take up a lot of space. If you have one and like it, no way anyone will ever be able to talk you out of it. It’s not stubbornness. This tool engrains itself into peoples work. It’s not a bad thing.

If you don’t have one and want to do woodwork, it’s super smart to start with a tracksaw. It excels at the sorts of projects (sheet goods) beginning woodworkers actually do. You will get a lot of advice from tablesaw owners who love their table saws. Got it. But a track saw, and a router attachment, couple other battery power and hand tools, you can build a lot of high quality stuff for not much money in not much space.

What I suspect happens is, when these questions come up, the tablesaw guys talk about their huge shops and cabinet saws and the OPs buy cheap *** contractor saws, which are really not comparable to the advice they were given.

Table saws are great tools, especially expensive ones. But a track saw is a reasonable alternative, that produces high quality cuts and can be used for more than sheet goods. Dollar for dollar its the better choice versus sub $1000 tab.e saws.

In my extensive experience, woodworking advice defaults to the most expensive options, as if everyone has the time, money and inclination for that. Rarely, is the advice my brother gave me: “ you don’t need that, just use your chisel”

(PS I’m as guilty or guiltier of this than anyone. Oh you need to fix a lamp? You need Snap On flare nut wrenches. Get the whole set!)

 

[jar944]

Ok all good. only comment I have is:

Table saws are expensive, dangerous AF, and take up a lot of space. If you have one and like it, no way anyone will ever be able to talk you out of it. It’s not stubbornness. This tool engrains itself into peoples work. It’s not a bad thing.

If you don’t have one and want to do woodwork, it’s super smart to start with a tracksaw. It excels at the sorts of projects (sheet goods) beginning woodworkers actually do. You will get a lot of advice from tablesaw owners who love their table saws. Got it. But a track saw, and a router attachment, couple other battery power and hand tools, you can build a lot of high quality stuff for not much money in not much space.

What I suspect happens is, when these questions come up, the tablesaw guys talk about their huge shops and cabinet saws and the OPs buy cheap *** contractor saws, which are really not comparable to the advice they were given.

Table saws are great tools, especially expensive ones. But a track saw is a reasonable alternative, that produces high quality cuts and can be used for more than sheet goods. Dollar for dollar its the better choice versus sub $1000 tab.e saws.

In my extensive experience, woodworking advice defaults to the most expensive options, as if everyone has the time, money and inclination for that. Rarely, is the advice my brother gave me: “ you don’t need that, just use your chisel”

(PS I’m as guilty or guiltier of this than anyone. Oh you need to fix a lamp? You need Snap On flare nut wrenches. Get the whole set!)

No one suggested a 10hp, 10' slider (yet), so still a relatively calm thread by GJ standards.


I'm not sure the op is coming back

 

[Crazyjake8493]

just asking. Do you have a track saw? Relating a decent track saw to a circular saw and a straightedge sounds like a comment someone would make who has never used a track saw.

This is a “let them eat cake” discussion. A good table saw is expensive. The one in the picture above has an extension table, outfeed rollers, motion base, dust collection….that’s every bit of $3000.

whereas a good tracksaw could easily be less than $1000, and take up half the space. That space is money. That’s 8 or 10’ you could put tools or lumber in.

table saws shine for repetitive cuts, like those used for plywood projects. But there are jigs and appliances and tricks you can use to make track saws better at those kinds of operations.

the question isn’t “which is better?”. No tool matches the utility of the table saw. The question is, in a small low budget shop, is a cheap small table saw (contractor saw for example) worth the space compared to the best track saw which is comparably priced?

Contractor saws are worthless and no one should own them. $600 buys a decent table saw with a cast iron top that will last a long time and will be safer and more enjoyable to use than a cheap table saw.

A track saw is great for sheet goods, I won't deny that. But they cost a lot of money for a tool that does one thing well. A circular saw with a guide WILL do everything a track saw can do (whether you like it or not), and all that money saved can be put towards a decent table saw, which will do dozens and dozens of things that a track saw won't do.

For a contractor on a job site breaking down lots of sheet goods every day, a track saw is a great investment. For a homeowner with a wood shop in their garage and a theoretically limited budget, they're a terrible investment.

 

[AEAdam]

Appreciate the discussion. Just in case anyone is interested:

i have German track for my Bosch 18v circ saw. The basic Bosch circ saw is a great little workhorse. The track for it is outdated and not available in the US. The set up does not plunge cut, depth stop is imprecise, and bevels are not possible. But there is a huge difference between clamping a straight edge or guide and using track. The track makes straighter cuts easier.

Proper modern track saws can really build a kitchen. There are some joints you can’t easily do. Many jobs are easier on a true TS. But there are other portable tools, esp routers, that can make up for some the tracks saws short comings.

Im currently using my set up to build window and door frames, and lots of exterior trim work, as well as framing.

 

[tyyost]

Contractor saws are worthless and no one should own them. $600 buys a decent table saw with a cast iron top that will last a long time and will be safer and more enjoyable to use than a cheap table saw.

I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean. Across this thread there are several suggestions for everything from Powermatic 66’s to a Ryobi BT3000. There are several iterations of contractor saws, including the ubiquitous ones from craftsman and Delta with the motor hanging off the back. A real 1 1/2Hp motor makes a many sawing tasks easy. 8/4 oak may need a good rip blade but it’s all doable. Table size is the same as a unisaw, and cost is much less.

The track saw debate blows my mind unless the OP‘s preferred material is sheet goods. I haven’t pulled my Makita track saw out in a few months, mostly because I’ve been working with solid lumber. Either way it seems the OP bailed on us.

 

[Wamsutta]

Sounds like what you need is an Altendorf F 25

 

[neophyte]

Nah, for sheet goods get a Striebig.

Striebig Archives

Striebig vertical panel saws offer Swiss precision for wood, plastics, and composite materials. CSAW provides Striebig equipment sales, service, parts, and expert U.S. support.

www.csaw.com

 

[acer66]

So you operate like pictured, on the casters? I was thinking about building a "cart" like that for my Craftsman saw but figured I'd need to drop it down to solid feet to keep it steady.

I have a diy stand for my unisaw with router table and since my garage floor is uneven at best I have casters with adjustable feet.

Takes a minute to adjust the feet to the floor but once its set its rock solid.

 

[dnschmidt]

No one suggested a 10hp, 10' slider (yet), so still a relatively calm thread by GJ standards.


I'm not sure the op is coming back

I was getting around to that. You just got there before me. Real men buy Martin's not Altendorfs. Hey, if you're going to go there go there.

 

[jar944]

Nah, for sheet goods get a Striebig.

Striebig Archives

Striebig vertical panel saws offer Swiss precision for wood, plastics, and composite materials. CSAW provides Striebig equipment sales, service, parts, and expert U.S. support.

www.csaw.com

Best go with a Martin t77 or similar for versatility over the striebig

 

[jar944]

I was getting around to that. You just got there before me. Real men buy Martin's not Altendorfs. Hey, if you're going to go there go there.

True, but for the op 3k vs 80k. Good for a cheap starter saw