51% US Made

[jsackin]

We’ve heard from a reliable source that the US government is now only requiring tool kits to be 51% US made. Tool kits are usually placed in military vehicles: tanks, jeeps, etc. Before, it was 100%, unless you couldn’t find it made here. There is a lot of gray area, as we just heard about this last week, so more details will probably be flushed out, but if this is true, this will be a big hit on US manufacturing.

If you guys have any ideas on who to contact to voice your opinion on this please let me know.

thanks

Jori
http://store.harryepstein.com/

 

[cashishift]

This will never surprise me.

I have a friend who is as anti american made as they come. I'll never understand his logic.

 

[HandyManny]

You'll be seeing it more and more with less and less domestic products as this country loses it's ability to make anything here anymore. At least our US military has 1% more domestic requirements than the Swiss require for their products to be labled Swiss Made.

 

[HandyManny]

This will never surprise me.

I have a friend who is as anti american made as they come. I'll never understand his logic.

Made in USA, used to generally mean at the least - pretty good quality at an affordable price. This country was well known at one time for manufacturing and designing some of the best and most advanced products in the world. We still design a lot here, but have to now rely on engineers from overseas because we have fewer and fewer good ones who are born and educated here. I see it in my current industry all the time. There still are a few high quality things still made here though.

 

[mrholeshot]

yeah what ever happened to quality US made 800 dollar hammers, HF has them on sale for 99 cents.lol

 

[HandyManny]

yeah what ever happened to quality US made 800 dollar hammers, HF has them on sale for 99 cents.lol

I guess if our DoD is willing to pay that much for a hammer, the contractor will be all too willing to sell it for $800. Makes me wonder who's running the logistic and procurment departments.

 

[Stuey]

Wow, that's pretty sad news!

 

[oldtools]

The military has a fixed budget. If they spend less on tools, they can spend more on weapon system or personnel. Imagine how much the military would save if they buy from HF.

 

[HandyManny]

The military has a fixed budget. If they spend less on tools, they can spend more on weapon system or personnel. Imagine how much the military would save if they buy from HF.

Ha ha, very funny. Nice try though. They're budget isn't that fixed. Ever wonder what the real big secret of Area 51 was??? I speculate it's biggest secret had a lot more to do with spending and funding that went on rather than it did with technology and experiments. Just my guess though.

No I can tell you for sure even these days, the budget isn't that fixed. I'm not bashing the DoD either. I firmly believe in our Armed Forces and have no problem funding them with my tax dollars.

 

[woody 73]

Sounds very sad...

 

[Sancho]

Be careful jabbing at $800 hammers, insturmented hammers for vibration testing can cost a lot more than that. I recall reading the article citing DoD waste at buying overpriced hammers a few years back, funny thing is theyre USA made hammers either from california or depew,NY (see: PCB Piezotronics and Dytran Industries).

These "overpriced" hammers are used in simple terms to determine if a prototype plane is ready for its flutter test among a miraid of other testing uses.

With my rant over, it is sad that the level has been reduced. Only time will tell what the true impact is.

 

[rsanter]

Made in USA, used to generally mean at the least - pretty good quality at an affordable price. This country was well known at one time for manufacturing and designing some of the best and most advanced products in the world. We still design a lot here, but have to now rely on engineers from overseas because we have fewer and fewer good ones who are born and educated here. I see it in my current industry all the time. There still are a few high quality things still made here though.

now 'made in america' is going to mean not radioactive

bob

 

[jsackin]

The military has a fixed budget. If they spend less on tools, they can spend more on weapon system or personnel. Imagine how much the military would save if they buy from HF.

It would save them money, but would you like to be a soldier working on his truck in the middle of the desert with harbor freight tools?

 

[nikonica]

It would save them money, but would you like to be a soldier working on his truck in the middle of the desert with harbor freight tools?

Our soldiers should have the best that we can provide them.

 

[DavidB]

That's sad news. I can't help but wonder if it was a push down from the Gov to cut costs or a push up from the manufacturers because so much is being outsourced these days.

 

[justanengineer]

Youre off base (pun intended) slightly. You wont find very many tools in military vehicles these days due to fast moving mechanics (like my former self) who are either with or right behind them. The government has always had a policy of "buy first here, second there," and it is getting worse but the brands remain the same in general. In the 12-ton toolbox I had as a soldier, I had nothing but SnapOn, Proto, Mac, and some very obscure specialty brands - nothing outwardly unAmerican, but most outsourced overseas. This is how I was clued in first hand as to the truth behind new tools, having not believed the rumors for years and holding onto hope that these brands were all 100% American made.

 

[Shipfittin]

The military has a fixed budget. If they spend less on tools, they can spend more on weapon system or personnel. Imagine how much the military would save if they buy from HF.

I know you were probably kidding but, there's no way we could operate with harbor freight tools. I think it would cost us more money to keep buying replacement tools then it would have to purchase top of the line to begin with. All of our tools are currently Made in the USA. I think most of our ratchets are S&K and I've used a few Snap On tools here and there we have. I work in a heavy industrial environment, so I can't speak for everywhere but I've never even seen a Craftsman tool or anything mid range at work.

 

[Zrexxer]

"Reliable" source or not, I'd do some more research before putting on your sky-is-falling helmet. This has all the earmarks of a rumor. I have seen no changes to the Berry Amendment that specify "percent US content," if they want to loosen the requirement there is already all kinds language in the statute that allows for exceptions based on emergency conditions, times of war, etc... The version I believe to be current says:

25.7002 Restrictions on food, clothing, fabrics, and hand or measuring tools. 225.7002-1 Restrictions.
The following restrictions implement 10 U.S.C. 2533a (the “Berry Amendment”). Except as provided in subsection 225.7002-2, do not acquire--

(b) Hand or measuring tools, unless the tools were produced in the United States.

 

[jsackin]

"Reliable" source or not, I'd do some more research before putting on your sky-is-falling helmet. This has all the earmarks of a rumor. I have seen no changes to the Berry Amendment that specify "percent US content," if they want to loosen the requirement there is already all kinds language in the statute that allows for exceptions based on emergency conditions, times of war, etc... The version I believe to be current says:

25.7002 Restrictions on food, clothing, fabrics, and hand or measuring tools. 225.7002-1 Restrictions.
The following restrictions implement 10 U.S.C. 2533a (the “Berry Amendment”). Except as provided in subsection 225.7002-2, do not acquire--

(b) Hand or measuring tools, unless the tools were produced in the United States.

Yes. I want to re-iterate that this is something that we have heard from people that deal with GSA. They just had a meeting here in Kansas City last week. I have not heard this directly myself, but wanted to put it out there. If I hear anything to the contrary I will post it immediately.

 

[mrholeshot]

Our soldiers should have the best that we can provide them.

Thats right because I don't want to be buying cheap stolen tools outside the back gate at night.I want the good stuff

 

[route246]

Don't exaggerate. The hammers were more like $500. It was the toilet seats that were $800.

yeah what ever happened to quality US made 800 dollar hammers, HF has them on sale for 99 cents.lol

 

[bczygan]

I think that's great. This means that US companies that already manufacture much of their product line out of the country, can still sell them to the military. Nicholson files is a good example. Actually, I want my military to buy the best tool for the job at the best price, regardless of source. It might be smart to stockpile items bought from potential enemy's though.

 

[oldtools]

I know you were probably kidding but, there's no way we could operate with harbor freight tools. I think it would cost us more money to keep buying replacement tools then it would have to purchase top of the line to begin with. All of our tools are currently Made in the USA. I think most of our ratchets are S&K and I've used a few Snap On tools here and there we have. I work in a heavy industrial environment, so I can't speak for everywhere but I've never even seen a Craftsman tool or anything mid range at work.

HF tools are life time gaurantee, so there is no cost associated with replacement tools.

 

[oldtools]

It would save them money, but would you like to be a soldier working on his truck in the middle of the desert with harbor freight tools?

Only buy Taiwanese made tools from HF. With the money saved, they can buy more protective armore or advanced weapon.

 

[fordbroncodave]

i don't understand why we cut business with ourselves. we create the best products available apon comparison of others. there are exceptions such as those the government is heavily involved in (automobiles).

support your country you live in. don't be a cheapass and buy the cheapest wrench you can find. save and invest in what your fellow residents produce.

 

[Shipfittin]

HF tools are life time guarantee, so there is no cost associated with replacement tools.

Oh yeah, I can just see that working out. I hope your kidding, because if your really think that the DoD could use Harbor Freight tools on a daily basis then your living in la la land. You're hard pressed to find a mechanic that uses Pittsburgh ratchets on the job daily. Now imagine an environment where the stresses on tools are at least 10x greater in a lot of the environments. That would be like needing a good stapler for an office that is going to be used 300+ times a day and getting it at the Dollar Tree because they offered a lifetime warranty on that item.

 

[Stuey]

"Reliable" source or not, I'd do some more research before putting on your sky-is-falling helmet. This has all the earmarks of a rumor. I have seen no changes to the Berry Amendment that specify "percent US content," if they want to loosen the requirement there is already all kinds language in the statute that allows for exceptions based on emergency conditions, times of war, etc... The version I believe to be current says:

25.7002 Restrictions on food, clothing, fabrics, and hand or measuring tools. 225.7002-1 Restrictions.
The following restrictions implement 10 U.S.C. 2533a (the “Berry Amendment”). Except as provided in subsection 225.7002-2, do not acquire--

(b) Hand or measuring tools, unless the tools were produced in the United States.

My research into this shows the same. On the bright side, I now thoroughly understand the Buy American Act and its application towards both civil supplies and military hand tool procurement.

Yes. I want to re-iterate that this is something that we have heard from people that deal with GSA. They just had a meeting here in Kansas City last week. I have not heard this directly myself, but wanted to put it out there. If I hear anything to the contrary I will post it immediately.

From what I can tell, even if the GSA relaxes the USA-made requirement, the DoD's DFARS supplement specifically governs hand tools and would override such a change.

For contracts above the simplified acquisiton threshold [$100,000?]:

252.225-7015 Restriction on Acquisition of Hand or Measuring Tools.

As prescribed in 225.7002-3(b), use the following clause:


RESTRICTION ON ACQUISITION OF HAND OR MEASURING TOOLS (JUN 2005)


Hand or measuring tools delivered under this contract shall be produced in the United States or its outlying areas.

 

[american lockpicker]

As a tax payer I find that offensive. All the equipment the US military uses needs to be made here.

 

[Stuey]

All I could find was a single solicitation (http://sws.gsa.gov/sws-search/viewS...lRefresh=MA==&solDoc=MDkwMDA0MmI4MGMyZTFhMw== ) for a particular tool kit that does not require a Buy American Act Certificate, clause 52.225-1.

 

[oldtools]

Oh yeah, I can just see that working out. I hope your kidding, because if your really think that the DoD could use Harbor Freight tools on a daily basis then your living in la la land. You're hard pressed to find a mechanic that uses Pittsburgh ratchets on the job daily. Now imagine an environment where the stresses on tools are at least 10x greater in a lot of the environments. That would be like needing a good stapler for an office that is going to be used 300+ times a day and getting it at the Dollar Tree because they offered a lifetime warranty on that item.

For heavy duty work, they can use SO, Proto, etc, but for fixing light duty base tasks, HF is sufficient. This would help the military save some money.

 

[oldtools]

As a tax payer I find that offensive. All the equipment the US military uses needs to be made here.

You will be surprise how equipment the military used are not made in USA.

 

[ibedayank]

For heavy duty work, they can use SO, Proto, etc, but for fixing light duty base tasks, HF is sufficient. This would help the military save some money.

Yeah having double the tools will save money. And i am sure that when something breaks it will tell you if its light duty or heavy duty.
Buy the best and be done with it.

 

[otis66]

If this is true why does Snap On NOT put USA on there dual 80 ratchets.

 

[Busted Bolts]

My nephew is mechanic in the Marines and said they just had to get rid of their SO stuff and its been replaced with Armstrong. All his tools got shipped to Afganistan for his 2nd tour. Says nothin like the SO sets they had.

 

[Fedwrench]

I don't know what you guys are complaining about. The cars that make up my government fleet at work don't even have 51% US part content despite having Ford/GM/or Chrysler badging.

 

[sonnyboy]

As a tax payer I find that offensive. All the equipment the US military uses needs to be made here.

If this is true why does Snap On NOT put USA on there dual 80 ratchets.

I agree totally. The wording should be expanded to include "made in the USA and LABELED as such ON THE TOOL"!

 

[A_Pmech]

One day we're going to get into another big full-scale conventional war.

Who exactly is going to make the tanks, guns, planes, and ammunition?

The enemy?

 

[Shipfittin]

For heavy duty work, they can use SO, Proto, etc, but for fixing light duty base tasks, HF is sufficient. This would help the military save some money.

What is a light duty base task? To my knowledge light duty would be regular maintenance on vehicles such as a Humvee. Outside of that, everything we do is pretty industrial. You don't see to many auto mechanics running around the civilian world with Pittsburgh ratchets and wrenches.

If your referring to doing building maintenance that is handled by a different entity. They don't just go grab Pvt. Jones and stop him from working on retreading a tank to go change out the light bulbs in an office because they burned out. Usually there is a civilian entity within that branch of the military that handles those tasks. Most of those guys bring their own tools with them, outside of specialty or calibrated tools. If that entity doesn't handle the job then it's usually contracted out through a bidding system. If a contractor does the job then they definitely bring in their own tools. So if your worried that we are sitting around changing light fixtures out with Snap On tools, don't let it keep you up at night, because we're not.

 

[oldtools]

What is a light duty base task? To my knowledge light duty would be regular maintenance on vehicles such as a Humvee. Outside of that, everything we do is pretty industrial. You don't see to many auto mechanics running around the civilian world with Pittsburgh ratchets and wrenches.

If your referring to doing building maintenance that is handled by a different entity. They don't just go grab Pvt. Jones and stop him from working on retreading a tank to go change out the light bulbs in an office because they burned out. Usually there is a civilian entity within that branch of the military that handles those tasks. Most of those guys bring their own tools with them, outside of specialty or calibrated tools. If that entity doesn't handle the job then it's usually contracted out through a bidding system. If a contractor does the job then they definitely bring in their own tools. So if your worried that we are sitting around changing light fixtures out with Snap On tools, don't let it keep you up at night, because we're not.

You don't need a $800 hammer to stake a tent. If you break a HF hammer, you probably need to learn how to use a hammer properly. Let say the US sent 30,000 troops to Iraq. If they are going to provide a hammer to each soldier so he/she can build a tent, they would have to spend $24 millions for the American hammers or $30,000 for the HF. If I was the soldier, I would rather have an armor vest than an overpriced hammer. Buying an American made $800 hammer doesn't help the US economy.

 

[Nuts]

You don't need a $800 hammer to stake a tent. If you break a HF hammer, you probably need to learn how to use a hammer properly. Let say the US sent 30,000 troops to Iraq. If they are going to provide a hammer to each soldier so he/she can build a tent, they would have to spend $24 millions for the American hammers or $30,000 for the HF. If I was the soldier, I would rather have an armor vest than an overpriced hammer. Buying an American made $800 hammer doesn't help the US economy.

When you start making sense, go ahead and post again.

No one is buying $800 dollar hammers to stake tent pegs, no one.


Nuts