6 point vs 12 point- comparisons

[TOOL FANATIK]

I sacrifice speed for strength and always grab a 6 point.takes a bit longer finding proper angle for best leverage and sometimes cant get the best angle, in which case ill go for a 12. I just love the "full contact" feel i get from a six; feels a lot stronger and takes less effort....or is it all in my head? Lol

 

[Mohawk Dave]

You should only buy SO Spline Drive. Everyone should. The Kool Aid is so refreshing!


















ok, on a serious note, the strength between them seldom comes into play on 6pt hardware. However, 12pt hardware, (for the most part), is designed to have much more torque applied---think ARP headbolts---, and a 12pt socket was not intended for those strengths. It was designed for the average torques of the average 6pt hardware.

Here's a good read explaining that. http://www.wrighttool.com/about/innovate2.asp

That being said, I was CRANKIN' on a 12pt 25/32 not long ago and it did not split or crack. I think any higher end quality 12pt sockets will be just fine for 99% of normal stuff. But as discussed here many a time, the 12pt was designed to be used with breaker bars as ratchets had 181degrees between teeth.

 

[brass89]

12 pt are needed for some applications, but for standard hex bolts/nuts 6 pt are much more 'positive' grab. Under high torque, 12 pt has a greater tendency to round off bolts. Also preferable and I think it's become the standard for newer sockets is to leave a flared opening at the corners of the socket with the sides featuring a sort of shallow arch. That way the socket is grabbing the flats of the bolt/nut rather than straining right on the weaker corners. Less slippage.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

yea brass, (at least for SO) a 12pt hits the same spot on the flats as their 6pt, so no greater chance of rounding........but at one time with many socket brands, yes.

 

[mikehaugen]

I don't see how it could take less effort, but I agree 6 point is a little better. When it comes to wrenches however, I rarely use 6 point. I have only come across a handfull of times when a 12 would round a head. Normally a bolt will break long before a 12 point will round a head, unless the head is in bad shape to begin with. A "good" twelve point wrench works fine for me 99.99% of the time. Most of my work is on industrial mahines, maybe cars are different.

I will say however, that on a bolt/nut that gets removed often, over time a 12 point wrench will take it's toll and start to wear the head faster it seems.

 

[mikehaugen]

Oops, sent that one early...

A was going to add that sockets I always try to use 6 point. Don't see a lot of point of 12 point sockets except being easier to get on the head, or if you are using them on a breaker bar.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Oops, sent that one early...

A was going to add that sockets I always try to use 6 point. Don't see a lot of point of 12 point sockets except being easier to get on the head, or if you are using them on a breaker bar.

hey mike, just FYI, there's an EDIT button only you can see on each of your posts. Hit that and it opens it back up to revise.

 

[TOOL FANATIK]

With a 6 point socket or wrench, there's more contact surface. It seems to me the energy transferred from you to the wrench gets transfered to the fastener better and less energy is dissipated, hence more force to the fastener. I believe this to be accurate, but I may be reaching a bit so if anyone knows better, please advise.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

With a 6 point socket or wrench, there's more contact surface. It seems to me the energy transferred from you to the wrench gets transfered to the fastener better and less energy is dissipated, hence more force to the fastener. I believe this to be accurate, but I may be reaching a bit so if anyone knows better, please advise.

At one time, yes, but with Flank Drive, Surface Drive, and a ton of other copied designs, the socket no longer contacts the corner, but rather the flat of the nut/bolt. Same contact for 6pt or 12pt on modern good sockets.

 

[General Geoff]

the amount of force being transferred is exactly the same between 6 and 12 pt, unless and until the tool rounds the fastener.


edit; and yes, high quality modern 12 point sockets do not grip the edges of the fastener. They will not round fasteners any more readily than high quality 6 point sockets.

Note the angles and edges, this socket will not grip a hex bolt by the edges, but on the flats.

 

[TOOL FANATIK]

That's right, I forgot about that. Weird then how according to this SO illustration their 12 point design does not transfer load from each point, but rather every other. If this is accurate, then there should be no difference between 12 and 6 in respect to force applied.

 

[TOOL FANATIK]

What brand socket is that?

 

[General Geoff]

The one I posted is a Ko-ken socket, from a 1/2" drive 12-pt set.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

There is no difference in force applied to turn the same fastener. The 12 simply has twice as many positions to place it onto said fastener......or did I misunderstand the ?

 

[michael murder]

Check
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181559&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182713&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186329&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162927&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123827&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130761&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147786&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259540&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260112&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242556&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211327&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119717&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43024&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40154&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25239&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9622&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8125&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7259&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24081&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20608&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47341&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74119&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104315&highlight=12+point">here</a>
<a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99355&highlight=12+point">here</a>
for details.

 

[brass89]

There's no real difference in automotive vs machinery other than on commonly accessed nuts/bolts. The real issue is if they're used more frequently than others and previous mechanics have been sloppy you'll come across all sorts of damaged or partially rounded hex heads. Or from the shadetree mechanic that used no finesse and tried using the wrong tool (aka visegrips). In cases like that 12pt can be problematic, but yea the surface drives are what I was referring to. Much better design than the old corner grips and it has been copied a lot so many brands feature it.

 

[d.mcfarland]

There was a test of all kinds of socket types. That's going to be the thread ender here.

 

[mikehaugen]

I little off topic, but does anyone else notice a difference in the head size/thread size ratio between automotive/industrial applications? I have a whole different list of commony used sizes at work vs. on my cars.

 

[Cope]

I little off topic, but does anyone else notice a difference in the head size/thread size ratio between automotive/industrial applications? I have a whole different list of commony used sizes at work vs. on my cars.

Yes! My KIA Sportage uses 12mm head size on the splash shield bolts, but the replacement bolts at Lowe's take a 13mm socket. I have noticed this before on other autos.

 

[Wamsutta]

Back in the old days 6-point had an advantage, but once the Flank Drive patent expired and all the other manufacturers started incorporating the Flank Drive design into their sockets, 6-points no longer have the advantage and it becomes a matter of preference.

 

[86k10]

Ford vs. Chevy?

 

[Exceller8]

What do you guys like better 8-point or E Torx?

 

[Gmonkee]

In the days of breaker bars being more common that ratchets, and the ratchets having 20 or less teeth 12pt made a lot of sense. It gave you smaller degree angles to work with.

The age of 40 to 60T ratchets there was a breaking point to that advantage. Now with 45T to 88T dominating the market either works equally well, until you need a breaker bar again and 12pt gains that advantage again.

I use 72T ratchets. There are times I'd trade all my 6pt for 12 on frustrating jobs still. Today was one of those days.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

6 point still rounds out bolts here in the rust belt. I use 12s on 12s, and that's it.

 

[SantaAna12]

The one I posted is a Ko-ken socket, from a 1/2" drive 12-pt set.

Man...that is a clean set. Compact metal box, and I like the placement diagram.
Nice!

 

[Skin]

Back in the old days 6-point had an advantage, but once the Flank Drive patent expired and all the other manufacturers started incorporating the Flank Drive design into their sockets, 6-points no longer have the advantage and it becomes a matter of preference.

Maybe in Texas, not in the rust belt. 6pt still rule supreme, 12pt will still round off a corroded fastener.

 

[JeepsAreBuilt]

Well.. how about this. If I round off a bolt head with my 6 point socket.. I scramble to find a 12 point socket.

 

[bonneyman]

Because I prefer Bonney sockets, I tend to reach for their 12-points first. They had Loc-Rite broaching. Bonney's 6-point tools (sockets and wrenches) were normal engagement. Good steel though - first rate.

Now that patents have run out just about everybody has an enhanced broach profile. But I gotta admit - those KoKen sockets look dang nice.

Here's a shot of the working end of some Bonney's I have on the computer:

 

[KinzeMech]

I sacrifice speed for strength and always grab a 6 point.takes a bit longer finding proper angle for best leverage and sometimes cant get the best angle, in which case ill go for a 12. I just love the "full contact" feel i get from a six; feels a lot stronger and takes less effort....or is it all in my head? Lol

Try them both and form your own opinion. Be as objective as you can. 6 point vs 12 point is a zombie thread topic that keeps coming back over, and over, forever. Many will share there opinion. Many will argue about it. Many will post links to studies supporting their opinion, while yet many others will post links seeming refuting those links. In the end, no one convinces anyone else to change their opinion.

I'll throw my opinion out there, so someone can come along shortly enough to tell me how wrong I am:

A properly stocked toolbox contains both. A properly experienced mechanic chooses which one is most appropriate for the situation on a case by case basis.

I have both, use both, and wouldn't be without either. I prefer to first go to 6 point most of the time, yet just two days ago when working out of my dad's toolbox at his farm, my work was delayed 15 minutes because the toolbox on my truck only had 6 point sockets, and it took me that long to find where he had a 12 point.

 

[TOOL FANATIK]

Try them both and form your own opinion. Be as objective as you can. 6 point vs 12 point is a zombie thread topic that keeps coming back over, and over, forever. Many will share there opinion. Many will argue about it. Many will post links to studies supporting their opinion, while yet many others will post links seeming refuting those links. In the end, no one convinces anyone else to change their opinion.

I'll throw my opinion out there, so someone can come along shortly enough to tell me how wrong I am:

A properly stocked toolbox contains both. A properly experienced mechanic chooses which one is most appropriate for the situation on a case by case basis.

I have both, use both, and wouldn't be without either. I prefer to first go to 6 point most of the time, yet just two days ago when working out of my dad's toolbox at his farm, my work was delayed 15 minutes because the toolbox on my truck only had 6 point sockets, and it took me that long to find where he had a 12 point.

i couldnt agree more with you. i generally like 6 point more, but 12 point does just as good. im going to stand alone tho and say the flank drive designs are not the way to go. a 6 point traditional socket with tight specs (absolutely no slop) will not round off a fastener, IF USED PROPERLY. Then again, i could be terribly mistaken, and thats ok.

 

[DeliveryGuy]

You know what NEVER rounds off a badly rusted fastener? The socket that's one size too small. Pound 'er on with the maul, and never round another one off again. That's why I only buy socket sets that start one size too small.

 

[KinzeMech]

You know what NEVER rounds off a badly rusted fastener?

Smoke wrench, FTW!

 

[bonneyman]

i couldnt agree more with you. i generally like 6 point more, but 12 point does just as good. im going to stand alone tho and say the flank drive designs are not the way to go. a 6 point traditional socket with tight specs (absolutely no slop) will not round off a fastener, IF USED PROPERLY. Then again, i could be terribly mistaken, and thats ok.

I have found that, on sheet metal screws, my venerable 12pt Bonney 1/4" dr sockets slip regularly. Might have something to do with SM screws? Anyway, switched to Craftsman 6pt sockets and they don't slip.

 

[KinzeMech]

I have found that, on sheet metal screws, my venerable 12pt Bonney 1/4" dr sockets slip regularly. Might have something to do with SM screws? Anyway, switched to Craftsman 6pt sockets and they don't slip.

Tiny sizes is one place where I believe 6 point does make a difference. If you're talking about hex head sheet metal screws, what do they have? A 1/4" or 5/16" head? In sizes that small a 6 point socket makes a hell of a difference. In larger sizes, it makes less of a difference.

 

[nicksnothereman]

I think 12 point are easier (cheaper) to manufacture at least with the crappier stuff. With modern fine tooth ratchets it kind of obviates the need for 12 point sockets. Just saying.

 

[SASORacing]

In the days of breaker bars being more common that ratchets, and the ratchets having 20 or less teeth 12pt made a lot of sense. It gave you smaller degree angles to work with.

Ding ding ding! exactly!

 

[honcho]

I think 12 point are easier (cheaper) to manufacture at least with the crappier stuff. With modern fine tooth ratchets it kind of obviates the need for 12 point sockets. Just saying.

I've been trying to sort through and organize my collection of "extra" tools and have noticed that a great many of the the older sockets are disproportionately 12pt. I speculate that it is was easier and more cost effective to broach 12 point sockets than 6 point sockets. Couple that with the ease of fitting the 12 pt socket on the fastener and 12 point was more prominent.

That's really just a guess on my part and a socket manufacturing expert would need to chime in to verify or dispel the theory of 12 point being easier / cheaper to manufacture.

Also, some older socket sets mixed 6 point and 12 pt with 6 point for smaller sizes and 12 point for larger sizes. Below is a picture listing sockets in a Koken 3/8 set


However, a few years back I started assembling sets of 6 point sockets under the assumption that they are superior. After several years of using them, I think I prefer the ease of putting 12 point sockets on fasteners over the 6 point sockets, especially in locations (like engine bays) where I place a socket as much by feel as using sight. 6pt may be stronger and less likely to round fasteners but they seem to slow me down.

 

[bonneyman]

Tiny sizes is one place where I believe 6 point does make a difference. If you're talking about hex head sheet metal screws, what do they have? A 1/4" or 5/16" head? In sizes that small a 6 point socket makes a hell of a difference. In larger sizes, it makes less of a difference.

10-4

My 1/4" drive work set has 6 point for 5/16" and 1/4", 12 point larger than that.