6 point vs 12 point sockets

[jrb0512]

I have all of the sockets I need, both metric and SAE, 1/4 inch drive, 3/8 drive, and 1/2 drive. Most all of mine are 6 point. What is the advantage of 12 point? Why would someone have a full set of both?

 

[mike93lx]

12 pt work on square and 12 pt fasteners, but I bet many people have have them as many sets include both.

I have a lot of both to have multiples of many sizes.

 

[Moosefire]

If you have a ratchet with a low tooth count, getting into really tight spaces with little swing and operating the ratchet can be a pain, but a little easier to line up the socket with the bolt with a 12 point. That's been my main use for them over the years. Also on square fence bolts

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[Dakkyz]

I personally have found having a 12 point set around in 3/8 and 1/2 has been useful for me, their not my go to sockets, but they do come in handy sometimes and I wouldn't spend a silly amount of money on one either.

Axle nuts/bolts, a few suspension components but these can be had with a spanner, I also find my self hammering on 12 point sockets onto rounded fansters, I also beat them onto rounded allen and torx capped head type of fasteners as well work pretty well.

 

[jsmeece]

I like them because they go onto the bolt or nut easier, with less effort to align them. I don't see a deficiency in performance compared to 6 point. Mostly, I use the 12 point in preference to 6 point.

Some guys on here claim that every time a 12 point is used instead of a 6 point, a bolt rounds off, but that hasn't been my experience. They will counter that with "you don't work with the salt rust that I do". That's probably true, the North Idaho and South Dakota salt rust I worked with is different than the Minnesota salt rust; that's just basic physics, right? What I will concede is that in cheap tools, the 6 point appear to work better. If you buy HF, Craftsman, or online asian tools, or house brand asian tools, you'll probably be more satisfied with 6 point. If you buy US made Snap-on, Proto, Williams, Wright, SK, or older USA made ones such as Bonney or Indestro, the 12 points will do just as well. I suspect the better imported ones such as Williams Taiwan, Blue-Point, Ko-Ken, Shahwile, Nepros, Wera, etc would do as well but I haven't owned them to know.

I have both 6 and 12 point; ultimately that is the answer. There are times, especially with small bolts, that the 6 point work better. Anything bigger than 10mm or 7/16" so, I just use 12 point because I like them better. The only 6 point I use routinely are my 1/4" drive. Basically, it boils down to preference. If the ease of aligning 12 points isn't important to you, there is no benefit except for 12 point specific fasteners.

So where does Carlyle, Toptul, Taiwan Gearwrench, USA made Craftsman/Armstrong/Allen/Mastercraft/older NAPA/older Kobalt (or any other Danaher Brand) and any other quality brand you OVERLOOKED fit into your rant!

 

[Wamsutta]

I don't believe we've ever discussed this topic before; have we?

 

[Tallpilot]

12 pt work on square and 12 pt fasteners, but I bet many people have have them as many sets include both.

I have a lot of both to have multiples of many sizes.

The geometry is wrong for square fasteners(not just 90 vs 120 degrees, the arises are shorter on 12pt). It will work in a low torque application like many field expedient solutions but more than a few 12 point box ends have been broken on square stuff.

A Williams USA 8 point socket set is about $30. Plus this is GJ so any excuse to buy more sockets is a good one.

 

[jsmeece]

I haven't used some of them, so not good data. USA Craftsman, I have used extensively, from the -V- to the G2 and E series. None were very good if considered from a commercial, non-homeowner viewpoint. They were a cost effective, easily accessible homeowner solution. When I replaced them with Proto, my rounded bolt problems went away. Carlyle, I have bought a few when I needed one at odd hours as NAPA is open. I've just bought 6 point as I wasn't real confident in them. The 6 point have worked okay. I've had a few old USA NAPA, they were okay but haven't used them extensively in sockets. I think they were New Britain. I had a few torx and hex from the just prior to Carlyle NAPA taiwan brand, they were okay but not exceptional. I had some older Kobalt, they were Williams USA and were excellent. The newer Taiwan Kobalt ones I have had were mediocre at best. Not even worth using since I had better already. Toptul I have never seen one, so no comment. Taiwan Gearwrench I have had a few examples of their tools, and every one has been disappointing. I don't expect the sockets would be different. I remember getting a set of them in a box I liquidated, but they were laser etched and the etching was wearing off, so I never even tried them. The now obsolete armstrong and mastercraft and such I have seen, but not used. They seemed to be about the same quality as Craftsman.

Now that was a more helpful assessment.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I don't believe we've ever discussed this topic before; have we?

That statement sounds like the effect of the Texas heat. I am rushing right over with a large umbrella and a loaded cooler.

 

[bcradio]

I don't believe we've ever discussed this topic before; have we?

New topic for sure!

 

[CR888]

All I'll say is many wives tales & myths on this subject are and have been pedalled for ever. The evidence often doesn't support many of the claims about either design. The best tool co's often sell both but probably favour 12pt for general use in their sets. Bonney Ultica??in my opinion really developed the 12pt design years ago and today almost all sockets sold benefit from their work. Its not as simple as many believe, the science behind turning fasteners and where/how forces are put through them is very interesting. I used to think designs like Metrinch were really clever as they put rotational torque on the flats toward the middle of the hex sides. I learned this is not such a good idea although in a damaged fastener situation it works well. Where torque is directed through a fastener head is key to its ability to actually turning a fastener and not split/damage it. Some clever folks posted the finer details of this many years ago, I've never been able to dig it up.

 

[Professional Tool User]

There are 12 pt fasteners for certain applications like engines and drivelines. 6 pts sockets are far less likely to slip off when the fasteners are in less than ideal condition (crusted up, rusted, and around).

 

[Catch_22]

A Williams USA 8 point socket set is about $30.

We must be shopping at different places.

 

[mike93lx]

All I'll say is many wives tales & myths on this subject are and have been pedalled for ever. The evidence often doesn't support many of the claims about either design. The best tool co's often sell both but probably favour 12pt for general use in their sets. Bonney Ultica??in my opinion really developed the 12pt design years ago and today almost all sockets sold benefit from their work. Its not as simple as many believe, the science behind turning fasteners and where/how forces are put through them is very interesting. I used to think designs like Metrinch were really clever as they put rotational torque on the flats toward the middle of the hex sides. I learned this is not such a good idea although in a damaged fastener situation it works well. Where torque is directed through a fastener head is key to its ability to actually turning a fastener and not split/damage it. Some clever folks posted the finer details of this many years ago, I've never been able to dig it up.

I had a metrinch set! Still have a couple of the big sockets in my drawer, but chucked most of them a few years back

 

[Tallpilot]

We must be shopping at different places.

Could be.

https://www.toolsdelivered.com/Will...e-Tools-3-8-Inch-Drive-Chrome-SAE-Socket-Sets

 

[buckwheat_la]

I don't believe we've ever discussed this topic before; have we?

You mean in the last 24 hours?

 

[BarryWells]

The really, really comical part around here is the ************ factor over demanding 6 point sockets when, out of the whole f'n site, maybe half a dozen of us own 6 point combination wrenches.
OH. They aint nothing special..........

 

[Al Borland]

Smaller sizes, especially when rusted, do better with a 6 point.
Once you are over 9/16 or so, it's probably irrelevant.
Unless you are using impact sockets...

 

[BFHtime]

The really, really comical part around here is the ************ factor over demanding 6 point sockets when, out of the whole f'n site, maybe half a dozen of us own 6 point combination wrenches.
OH. They aint nothing special..........

Really good point!!!

 

[SRSemenza]

Maybe not shopping at different places ................ there is also a Williams 14 pc eight point set that is about $120. So maybe you guys are looking at different sets?

On the 7 pc set .................. amazon is cheaper when you factor the Toolsdelivered shipping. TD quoted me $18.00 for shipping.

Seth

 

[AreYaSerious]

6 point is more useful, but there's times where 12 point is needed.

 

[Tallpilot]

Maybe not shopping at different places ................ there is also a Williams 14 pc eight point set that is about $120. So maybe you guys are looking at different sets?

On the 7 pc set .................. amazon is cheaper when you factor the Toolsdelivered shipping. TD quoted me $18.00 for shipping.

Seth

True. Toolsdelivered is just like Tooldiscounter. They generally have the lowest prices but higher than average (dragged way down by 'free' shipping) S&H charges. Amazon or eBay for small quantities and the above for large orders. Split between multiple items the shipping charges get reasonable compared to vendors with the shipping built into the item price.

 

[Jtels85]

I have complete, comprehensive sets of Craftsman USA G2 and G2D sockets. Are there better brands? Sure. But mine have taken the abuse over-and-over, and I’ve never broke one.

I have metric and SAE, shallow and deep 6 point chrome socket sets in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 drive. I have 3/8 drive 12 point sets in shallow and deep, both in metric and SAE. I also have 12 point shallow 1/2 drive in metric and SAE.

I rarely use a 12 point socket, but when I do it’s on a nut or bolt larger than 22mm or 1-1/8” because Craftsman didn’t make a 6 point chrome larger than 22mm and I don’t own the large 6 point SAE’s that go all the way up to 1-1/4”. Never have I ran into an issue where I needed a 12 point because a 6 point wouldn’t work due to clearance issues or whatever the case may be. That’s not to say people don’t encounter that problem.. I have 12 point sets for that specific reason. Better safe that sorry. If I’m in the middle of a project, I don’t want to have to stop what I’m doing and drive all the way to the parts store for one tool.

That being said, I do favor 6 point sockets because I damn near rounded the 13mm drain plug on my Dodge with a 13mm, 12 point socket. I learned later on from another member on this board that Chrysler drain plugs are made of very soft metal. It only sees a 6 point socket from now on.

Everyone has their preference and opinions. You don’t need to go hog wild buying sets, but I say it doesn’t hurt to have both.

 

[rsanter]

I mostly prefer 6 point for general use, however I have a bunch of 12pt bolts on my cars.

12 point you can use on square heads, 6 PT heads, to drive taps...etc

 

[JRas]

Think everyone prefers 6 point sockets for strength

12pt fasteners pop up though

wrenches it makes sense, except splined hate em

 

[pstemari]

... I used to think designs like Metrinch were really clever as they put rotational torque on the flats toward the middle of the hex sides...

I don't know how the metrinch design worked, but the various relieved corner designs get a lot, if not all, of their advantage by being able to use tighter tolerances. A design with unrelieved corners must be looser because the minimum radius corner that you can make with a broach, or pretty much anything else, is much larger of a radius than the radius on the outside corners of the fastener. With the relieved corners, you don't need anywhere near as much clearance on the sides as you would if you didn't have them.

To really answer the question properly, I think you would need to do a finite element analysis. Presumably Snap-On, etc, have done that, but I doubt that the marketing types ever looked at it before they started spouting off. It wouldn't be the first time that marketing started spouting technical information that was blatantly incorrect. Just look at compressors and shop vacs.

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[Fluelikesymptoms]

I don't believe we've ever discussed this topic before; have we?

I have only been a member of garage journal for a few months and notice a lot of repeated threads in such a short time.

I've probably even contributed to that myself lol


As far as I have to say,

6 point sockets is for 6 point fasteners, 12 point is acceptable in tighter areas

(Many will say 12 point is good for everything, IMO I never feel comfortable breaking loose a 6pt corroded or fastener requiring a lot of torque with a 12pt socket)

12 point sockets is for 12 point fasteners

Regardless of what others may say, you will run into a 12 point fastener one day, and while not very often or nearly as common, itll happen. I had 12 point fasteners on a rear yoke for a drive shaft last weekend.

Just having metric and sae isnt going to cut it.

You'll want metric and sae, 6pt and 12 pt, shallow and deep, chrome and impact, and a good set of swivels.

This isnt just for professionals either, I just do personal home and auto repairs, and weekend mobile work, and I wouldn't even be able to do that much without the variety.

 

[Moosefire]

I had 12 point fasteners on a rear yoke for a drive shaft last weekend.

A good set of wrenches could help out here, but you're also correct on needing deep wells, a wrench cant help you if it cant reach the bolt.

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[jgromada]

I use my sockets about 90% for working on my cars which are now almost 100% metric. Most of those fasteners are 6 point but there are exceptions like that 30mm 12 point hub nut i had to get to remove VW hub to remove transmission. So i buy what i need when i identify that need.

Just bought a set of sockets in 3/8 and 1/2 in non-impact. The only impact sockets i have are 1/2 as the primary impact tool i have is a Dewalt and it is 1/2.

My use of SAE is very limited as well. There are always random things around the house that are SAE and i have what i need, just won't be buying any new sockets or wrenches for those.

 

[Jazz1]

Less likely to round a rusted nut with 6 point is why I prefer them

 

[MuhThugga]

I own 6 pt wrenches; both SO and Proto. I don't like them. I have broken a 6 point wrench, and it was S.O...... They're even harder to position than 6 point sockets.

The only 6 point wrenches I own are the SK X-Frames. I love the wrenches, but they can be a pain to line up some times.

 

[MuhThugga]

I have both 6 point and 12 point sockets. I think between my impact and non-impact sets, I have each size in both configurations. I don't work on cars professionally, but I do wrench on cars more often than the average hobbyist. The majority of 12 point stuff that I have come across is within ARP's offerings. They love to make everything a 12 point head.

The oddball socket I have is a Kobalt 11/32 universal socket. I had to acquire that guy to get some pressure plate bolts off a VW TDI clutch. I think the actual bolt head was VW's reverse triple squares, but the universal spline socket worked like a charm. The best part of that acquisition was that Lowe's only had the socket in these expensive sets. I just happened to look down, and inbetween two shelving planks, covered in dust, was a socket. I pulled it out and it was the exact 11/32 socket I needed. Go figure.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

Six point sockets are heavier than their twelve point equivalents and provide more of a continual workout for The Manly Mechanic. Charles Atlas used six point sockets. His wife used twelve point sockets.

 

[NC Rick]

No doubt 12 point are more versatile, particularly with box wrenches. My 6point box wrenches are a lifesaver sometimes. I like the 6 point wrenches with soft or damaged drive hexes as well as for better feel in certain blind and contorted positions. I reach for them often.