6 point vs. 12 point

[OctaneMotorsports]

Hey Everyone,

This is a stupid question, but what are the advantages/disadvantages to 6 point vs. 12 point sockets and wrenches? I can't think of a situation where 6 point would be better, could someone enlighten me? Thank-you.

 

[Jared]

Six point is usually better in my opinion because it tends to grip the fastener alot better and not round off the heads.


Jared

 

[l_bilyk]

I usually use 6pt

But I bought a set of 12pt in 3/8 drive for 12pt fastners and such

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

6 point are better in sockets, and have been very handy in wrenchs. However, with wrenchs, you can't add extensions and work further back to change angles, like you can with sockets.
That said, on some stuff you WILL need 12 point, not just due to angle issues, but also due to on some things, they use 12 point bolts. As examples, some Dodge vans use them for front brakes, Ford trucks use them for drive shafts.

The more tools you have, the more you try to do, the more you try to do, the more tools you aquire, a vicious and addictive cycle.

 

[Red1986GT]

I am a tech and from what I have come across is that a most bolts are 6 point and when using a 12 point on a 6 point head could end up striiping the bolt.

 

[OldCarGuy]

It is always best to use a six point socket on hex fasteners. Particularly on rusty hard to loosen bolts and nuts. A six point socket has much greater contact area and far less prone to round fasteners off.

The only advantage a twelve point socket has over a six point is that they will engage twice as often,, handy in tight areas. And can be used on square headed fasteners. Though they do make eight point sockets for them.

You never can have too many tools,, and the right tool for the application.

 

[dink]

Most of my sockets are 6 point with the exception of the hardly used bigger ones which are 12pt....on my wrenches I have my 6pt wrenches and I also have the 12 pt ratcheting wrenches...I prefer the 6pt wrenches

 

[Uncle Buck]

I guess I just learned something from Old Car Guy, I never knew that a 12 point socket could be used on a square nut, as far as I knew, my 8pt set was the only suitable socket for a squre nut?

 

[boiler7904]

A 12 pt socket is only going to grip the corners of a square nut / bolt. Very likely to round the head.

 

[TNToy]

That depends. A bottom-line Craftsman socket is a lot more likely to round off the fastener than a Snap-On. I've used 12pt Snappy sockets on square stuff wihtout any problems before.

I hate 6-point wrenches. The one angle you can get in to access that hidden nut is always halfway between two of the flats.

I use 6-point impact and swivel sockets, 12-pt chrome sockets, and 12 point wrenches. You're better off using the OPEN end of a 19mm snap on wrench to break loose a rusted bolt than the closed end of a harbor freight wrench. The quality of the tool has a lot to do with it...

 

[OldCarGuy]

Like I said, “Use the right tool for the job.” Indeed an eight point socket works best for square headed fasteners. But in a pinch, a twelve point will work.

Without a doubt a good quality tool will work better than a Wally World special. And last you a lifetime if not abused.

 

[kartracer55]

Alrighty then, go look at the nuts holding the wheels onto the hub on your kart. Since these get taken on and off very frequently, take a look at all the wear on the nut. I use a 6pt socket, and actually see the wear on theflats of the nuts. Now, IF you were to use a 12pt socket, you will see the wear and deformation on the corners of the hex.

Anyway, TNT said it best. You cant add an extension to a wrench and work further back, so your best bet for wrenches are probably 12pt.

I use 6pt sockets whenever possible, because I have noticed that it tends to make fasteners last longer as well (by this I mean the heads dont wear out as quickly)

Sometimes you will need a 12pt socket. You need a 12pt socket to turn a VW/Audi crank on certain (maybe all?) models. Some jeeps use 12pt bolts on the caliper anchor plate bolts, some ford drive shafts have a 12pt. European cars like to use 12pt bolts here and there, and they are popular for aftermarket hardware as well. Personally, I think they look cooler than a 6pt, so for anything that would get shown off to people, 12pts have a nicer appearance.

Jim

 

[OctaneMotorsports]

Sweet, thanks.

BTW Jim, what are you running next season?

 

[kartracer55]

Most likely the same class with same chassis, but I plan on running a few different east coast series because Im totally sick of the track im running at now... no rules being enforced and weekly entries dropped from around 300 karts to less than 100 in the past season. Hbu?

Jim

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I never knew that a 12 point socket could be used on a square nut, as far as I knew, my 8pt set was the only suitable socket for a squre nut?

Thats because they don't, and won't fit on square nuts and bolt heads. I've run into this before, and just went out to the shop to confirm this before posting. A 1/4-20 square nut is 7/16 aprox across the flats and a 7/16 open end fits just fine, but a 7/16 nor a 1/2 12 pt socket (or box wrench) will fit the nut, and a 9/16 12 pt socket is too large. Also tried it with some square headed lag bolts I have, same thing, no 12 pt socket will fit, either too big or too small.

Charles

 

[OctaneMotorsports]

Most likely the same class with same chassis, but I plan on running a few different east coast series because Im totally sick of the track im running at now... no rules being enforced and weekly entries dropped from around 300 karts to less than 100 in the past season. Hbu?

Jim

Sweet deal.

I'll be running the Maxter up here in Canada, and the Rotax in Canada and the USA (Florida Winter Tour). Junior in both.

 

[OldCarGuy]

Thats because they don't, and won't fit on square nuts and bolt heads. I've run into this before, and just went out to the shop to confirm this before posting. A 1/4-20 square nut is 7/16 aprox across the flats and a 7/16 open end fits just fine, but a 7/16 nor a 1/2 12 pt socket (or box wrench) will fit the nut, and a 9/16 12 pt socket is too large. Also tried it with some square headed lag bolts I have, same thing, no 12 pt socket will fit, either too big or too small.

Charles

I know I’ve used twelve point on square fasteners; but just where? Alas I take my twelve pointers to my old 1914,, square fastener were very common back them. Yep they do fit! It seams the stands have changed since 1914,, 1/4" bolts had 1/2" across the flats and 5/16" bolts had 5/8". And a 5/8 socket works on the old 1/4" square nut(1/2"across flats). Along with a 13/16 socket fit on a 5/16" square nut (5/8" across flats).

Also common on the old cars were square headed set screws. They had the same size across the flat as the diameter of the thread. And a 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 1/2" set screws can be driven by a 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, 5/8 twelve point socket respectably. I can only say that I’m in the wrong era!

 

[Bradley Miller]

Hey -- the Wally World stuff isn't too bad . . . I'm still using a Popular Mechanics 3/8 set of sockets and I liked the wrench a lot better than my Craftsman one. The other night I put a cheater bar (well, the end of a jack handle) on the ratchet and the mechanism didn't break, but the little doo-hickie to switch directions did . . . there's a nub now. It still works, but it's more of a pain . . . and I really liked that one. Oh well.

 

[SuperKid]

For high-torque situations, 6-point is best. But, for a general purpose 12-point will do. You can use a 12-point socket/wrench on a 6-point fastner, but good luck using a 6-point socket/wrench on a 12-point fastner.

 

[chevy302dz]

As a rule you should use 6 point sockets on hex heads, you only use 12 point sockets when you need them for tight spots, or when dealing with 12 point fasteners.

 

[Gearhead559]

Six point is usually better in my opinion because it tends to grip the fastener alot better and not round off the heads.


Jared

how does a 6 point socket fit a 12 bolt?

 

[TNToy]

I'm still using a Popular Mechanics 3/8 set of sockets and I liked the wrench a lot better than my Craftsman one.

There's a shock. I'd rather beat on timing cover bolts with a brick than use a Craftsman ratchet on it. I really hate them. Worst tools currently made by man.

Hey -- the Wally World stuff isn't too bad... and I really liked that one. Oh well.

You just haven't used the good stuff very much, that's all. If all you'd ever driven was 4 cylinders, you might be deluded into thinking a Civic Si was actually fast.

 

[eschoendorff]

If all you'd ever driven was 4 cylinders, you might be deluded into thinking a Civic Si was actually fast.

Ouch.

 

[OctaneMotorsports]

There's a shock. I'd rather beat on timing cover bolts with a brick than use a Craftsman ratchet on it. I really hate them. Worst tools currently made by man.

LOL! +1! Although I havn't used a whole lot of Craftsman, what I did use was dumpster food.

 

[EdNJ]

The only times I really use 12-pt sockets are for transmissions (clutches,flywheels) and engine assembly (head bolts or head studs,connecting rod bolts or nuts),otherwise I use 6-pt most of the time.

 

[Rickster]

I always reach for the 6-point sockets first; they have a feel of less slip or a firmer grip on the bolt/nut. But often in tight situations a 12-point socket or wrench will make the grip where the 6-point won't. It's a tough call if you're starting out and can't afford both sets or are just looking to maximize your dollar value, I'd say go with versatility and buy the 12-points now and then add the 6-points later if cash-flow is an issue. Maybe check the clearance rack for some often-used sizes in 6-point.

 

[oldgoat]

I've must have missed something. I've used my Craftsman sockets for years without a problem. We have snapon at work and while they are good they aren't worth double the price. Snapon wrenches are uncomfortable to make a heavy pull on due to their thin body. I have long ago started only buying 6 point sockets, but as far as wrenches they limit you too much on how much you can move between changing. I do have some though and if I can get them on I will use them to break a bolt loose and then use a 12 point.

 

[eschoendorff]

I think everyone has made the case for both 6 and 12 point sockets. As for wrenches, I only own 12 point and have never given a thought to purchasing 6 point. If I have a fastener that is giving me THAT much trouble, I use a 6 point impact socket with my 24" SK breaker bar. That generally persuades anything to move. If not, the torch comes out.

In reality, I have never really had a problem with a 12 point socket or wrench rounding off a fastener. Especially now that almost every socket or wrench available in the United States features some version of Snap On's flank drive system.

 

[MarkH]

My thoughs are like this. There is the right tool for each job. I have worked on many machines that you had just enough swing for one 12 pt move in a hidden area you could not get a socket to fit and 6 pts were useless. Then would go on and tackle something you could not get a socket on that we did damage the heads removing a bolt 12 a 12 pt. So I have seen it both ways.

Then we had a number of bolts we removed with a torch and a punch that defied a socket and a up to 6 ft cheater bar. So the right tool for the job. Both are best if you have to do a wide variety of work. The choice is what do you use if you can only have one and do not have a defined scope of work that helps you decide which works best. On most farms we used 12pts for the flexibility we needed, it was not an issue since we have large racks on the side of each shop with almost every fastener in common use available for replacement if we blew the head.

 

[thefairlaneman]

That depends. A bottom-line Craftsman socket is a lot more likely to round off the fastener than a Snap-On. I've used 12pt Snappy sockets on square stuff wihtout any problems before.

I hate 6-point wrenches. The one angle you can get in to access that hidden nut is always halfway between two of the flats.

I use 6-point impact and swivel sockets, 12-pt chrome sockets, and 12 point wrenches. You're better off using the OPEN end of a 19mm snap on wrench to break loose a rusted bolt than the closed end of a harbor freight wrench. The quality of the tool has a lot to do with it...

6 point sockets have a better "bite" and wont crack or slip as easy as a 12. You should NEVER use a 12 point with air power.

 

[TNToy]

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said.

I've must have missed something. I've used my Craftsman sockets for years without a problem.

I wasn't referring to craftsman wrenches... I was talking about their ratchets. The raised-panel wrenches are marginal-to-okay in quality. The raised-panel ratchets are absolute ****.

Snapon wrenches are uncomfortable to make a heavy pull on due to their thin body.

I've heard a fair number of people say that, but it's never bothered me. You don't actually push/pull on the handle, do you? You pretty much always push with the heel of your hand on the wider profile of the open-end of the wrench, when breaking a fastener loose with the box end.

So I don't get why people complain that the wrench digs into their hand... I've got a lot of Snap-On wrenches that I wouldn't trade for anything else.

 

[kartracer55]

Craftsman raised panel wrenches, at least the ones made in recent years are clearly not as high in quality as Snap ons, Matco, SK, or Craftsman pro. I wore out 2 different size wrenches in 2 years. Replaced them with Pro's and havent had a problem with wear. But hell, for the $$$ I dont mind simply having the get them warrantied every once in a while.

TNT... the thin "handle" of the snap on wrenches digs into the soft area between my thumb and index finger. Not all the time, but onlywhen Ive got the wrench in certain poisitions. On the other hand, the quality is excellent.

BTW, Im gunna hold off on those matcos for now. I have the oppurtunity for some MAC knuckle savers which are damn nice. Still not too sure, but I figure I can mybe get the 420$ set for 210... more sizes than the matcos plus these are new.

Jim

 

[oldgoat]

I've got Craftsman ratchets that are over 20 years old and maybe had a kit or two in them, but they have been reliable. We have the Snapon soft handle ratchets at work and the soft end broke off because the shaft doesn't go all the way through.
Actually I avoid pushing on a wrench or ratchet. If it breaks loose you have a harder time catching yourself. The wide end isn't that big and if trying to break loose a stubborn fastener you have to use both hands. Snap on is good stuff, but around here anyway I have seen too many people that are unhappy with the dealer and like I said for me they are too thin to be comfortable.

 

[TNToy]

TNT... the thin "handle" of the snap on wrenches digs into the soft area between my thumb and index finger. Not all the time, but onlywhen Ive got the wrench in certain poisitions. On the other hand, the quality is excellent.

I knew what you meant. I was basically being a jerk & saying "if it hurts, don't hold it that way" ... I usually rest my thumb along the edge of the wrench instead of wrapping it around the wrench. That keeps it from digging in.

BTW, Im gunna hold off on those matcos for now. I have the oppurtunity for some MAC knuckle savers which are damn nice. Still not too sure, but I figure I can mybe get the 420$ set for 210... more sizes than the matcos plus these are new.

Jim

I'd probably do the same thing if I were you.

Around here anyway I have seen too many people that are unhappy with the dealer and like I said for me they are too thin to be comfortable.

That's HUGE right there. Having a really great guy for my dealer, and being surrounded by other guys that love their stuff makes me WANT to like Snap-on. It also helps that I love Snap-On to start off with.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Craftsman raised panel wrenches, at least the ones made in recent years are clearly not as high in quality as Snap ons, Matco, SK, or Craftsman pro. I wore out 2 different size wrenches in 2 years. Replaced them with Pro's and havent had a problem with wear. But hell, for the $$$ I dont mind simply having the get them warrantied every once in a while.

TNT... the thin "handle" of the snap on wrenches digs into the soft area between my thumb and index finger. Not all the time, but onlywhen Ive got the wrench in certain poisitions. On the other hand, the quality is excellent.

BTW, Im gunna hold off on those matcos for now. I have the oppurtunity for some MAC knuckle savers which are damn nice. Still not too sure, but I figure I can mybe get the 420$ set for 210... more sizes than the matcos plus these are new.

Jim

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=1542640

Try these wrenches, they are very rounded (and somewhat fat handled) are are very comfortable to use. Long pattern. I bought this set at $89 and now its $79, makes me want to buy another set for the house, I put the first set in the box at work. Perfect chrome finish. And the price is right for professional quality wrenches.

Charles

 

[AgencyLife]

I like 6pt. better for manual and impact sockets. They Look stronger with thicker construction. There is a more of a perfect fit. Logically, less chance of rounding the fastener.

 

[bobbar]

^^^^^^^

 

[jetmech09]

I have never rounded anything off with a 12 point. Don't use crappy tools.

 

[Monte]

I like 6pt. better for manual and impact sockets. They Look stronger with thicker construction. There is a more of a perfect fit. Logically, less chance of rounding the fastener.

+ 1

 

[kc-steve]

This is an old thread, but I'll say what I've said in others. Start with a set of 12pt sockets because they are more versatile; ie. can be used with 4pt, 6pt and 12pt nuts. Then later add sets of 6pt sockets for reasons mentioned above. I think MANY times people round off nuts are due to using the wrong size 12pt socket rather than the socket's fault. Just sayin'.

Steve