6-pt vs 12-pt

[route246]

Regardless of brand (and quality requirements) I was curious about opinions here. I recently converted my "primary" sockets (regular and deep) to 6-pt and moved all of my 12-pt to my "seldom used tools" chest. So now, I only have 6-pt handy and this seems to have worked out well for me. Full sets of 1/2" sockets are very heavy and bulky so this is why I decided to segregate and favor the 6-pt ones. Is this rational thinking on my part?

I don't seem to have any tight situations which require 12-pt granularity, for instance. 6-pt seems adequate for the arc where I need sockets.

 

[turrican]

When I was real young, I used to think 12-pt were better somehow because "if I needed that, it'd be right there" and "it'll reduce my ratchet swivel in a tight area". Suffice it to say, ALL of my primaries are 6-pt, and I don't remember the last time I had to grab a 12-pt (barring the odd 12-pt headed bolt, Ford driveshafts come to mind...)

Wrenches, though, all of mine are 12-pt. The 6-pt box ends just look funny

 

[chewy7]

I think its rational. 12point sockets i think are mostly good for is 12 point fasteners. Most of my sockets are 6 point. But almost all of my combo wrench's are 12 pt. If i round off a nut or something, I break out the vise grips or the hot wrench (torch). If the fastener rounds off, its usually junk anyhow. So I ordered some flare nut wrench's for soft and corroded fasteners that are in poor shape.

 

[chewy7]

the only real application where I have to use 12 points too is the bolts holding the yokes on the drive shafts on pickup and grain trucks on our farm.

 

[4x4gearhead]

I did the same thing with my sets, my 12 point sockets are with my seldom used tools and the only things that I needed them for so far was a harley davidson engine, my ford driveshafts some engine mount bolts on deisel engines, and not to forget some of the fasteners on the first car I ever owned which was regretably a 1986 saab.

 

[Tigwldr]

I actually asked the snap on dealer for some 12 point sockets I needed to finish a set. His reply was " I haven't sold 12 points in years, I can order you some but you could get used ones off ebay quicker" so thats what I did.

 

[mrholeshot]

I use a lot of 12 point on engine builds but most other stuff I use 6pt.

 

[NY Old Guy]

I would have thought 12 point was better due to more angles it can get on the nut, so I'm surprised you guys like 6 point better. Is it because it won't round off nut edges, why is it that you guys prefer 6 points?

 

[strnjss]

I got a gift card to Snap-On last year for Christmas, and I used it to buy a Blue Point service set. All of the deep sockets in it are 12-point, while all the regular sockets are 6-point.

I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Usually the cheaper sets I get are all 6-point. So when I got 12-points in the really expensive set I figured something must be good about them.

I've never had a problem with the 12-point rounding anything off yet. Granted, I've never tried to use it on a really badly stuck fastener, but have used them on occasion for lug nuts without a problem.

I know 6-points have less of a risk of rounding things off.

I've also read somewhere that 12 points can be used for square fasteners too (but I have no idea where on earth anyone would run into a square fastener).

 

[trainwreck]

I've settled on 6pt sockets and 12pt wrenches unless there are specific applications that require a 12pt socket. (See below.)

12pt tools can be used on square fasteners, but it's a bit of a pain. For starters, the angles are off (60 degrees vs 90 degrees.) Also, the sizes aren't right anymore. I think that's because hex fasteners (and tools) are measured across the flats. When you engage a square fastener, you're engaging it across the diagonal, so the measurements aren't right anymore.

If you look at picture1, it's 24mm across the flats. But if you look at picture 2, you can see that the square isn't engaging in the same notches that a hex fastener would. It's not 24mm across the flats anymore. It's 24mm along the diagonal which is about 17mm across the flats.

I would have thought 12 point was better due to more angles it can get on the nut, so I'm surprised you guys like 6 point better. Is it because it won't round off nut edges, why is it that you guys prefer 6 points?

A 12pt wrench will require half the arc that a 6pt wrench will. (ie, 30degrees vs 60 degrees.) On wrenches, having 12pts means that you can work in tighter spaces. On wrenches without flank drive (or the equivalent), it means that you have a slightly higher chance of rounding a fastener.

But on sockets and ratchets, the ratchet already has a much smaller arc. Even the coarsest of modern ratchets only require about 10 degrees between engagement, so you're not giving anything up by using 6pts instead of 12pts. If anything, you get a slightly lower chance of rounding a fastener.

But as previously noted, there are applications where you come across a 12pt fastener, and you don't have any choices. In addition to those noted above, the MINI Cooper uses a 14mm "bi-hex" deep well socket for the sparkplugs. Beginning gearheads bought the special $50 "bi-hex" socket that MINI offers. Older gearheads just grabbed the 12pt socket that was rolling around their toolbox.

 

[diesel research]

I've also read somewhere that 12 points can be used for square fasteners too (but I have no idea where on earth anyone would run into a square fastener).

Dodge rwd torqueflite transmission band adjustments. Could use a crescent, but they have a very specific torque spec, thus a socket is recommended. Could also be used as a tap/extractor socket in some instances where a tee handle wouldn't fit (allowing use of extensions)

 

[stopdroplol]

I got a gift card to Snap-On last year for Christmas, and I used it to buy a Blue Point service set. All of the deep sockets in it are 12-point, while all the regular sockets are 6-point.

I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Usually the cheaper sets I get are all 6-point. So when I got 12-points in the really expensive set I figured something must be good about them.

I've never had a problem with the 12-point rounding anything off yet. Granted, I've never tried to use it on a really badly stuck fastener, but have used them on occasion for lug nuts without a problem.

I know 6-points have less of a risk of rounding things off.

I've also read somewhere that 12 points can be used for square fasteners too (but I have no idea where on earth anyone would run into a square fastener).

My very first socket set (Craftsman) was like that too. No idea why they decided to switch it up and put in 12 points for deeps.

The only time I've ever used 12 points was for square nuts and bolts and once to remove the headers on my Honda cb900c. Ended up stripping the nuts but I had to use it. Didn't have ratcheting wrenches at the time.

I hear A&P mechanics (Airplanes) use 12 points almost exclusively. I was looking at my schools programs and it was part of required tools for it. Reminds me, I gotta gotta get some Safety wire pliers (also on the list).

 

[crewchief888]

most of my sockets are 6 pt
i have a few 1/2" dr deep 12 pt sockets for 'tight spots" that a 6 pt socket wont fit.
and the occasional 12pt bolt head

i have a few 6 pt wrenches 1/4" 5/16" & 11/32" come to mind

 

[Damian]

The only time I use my 12pt stuff is for TQ'ing down ARP head/rod/main bolts that use a 12pt nut fastener.

Otherwise they just sit and collect dust.

 

[moparmuscle88]

performance SBC intake manifold fasteners and connecting rod nuts on different motors, particularly 60*v6 GM engines comes to mind

 

[MattT]

Regardless of brand (and quality requirements) I was curious about opinions here.

If you're disregarding quality go with 6 point and I wish you luck. If you're using flank drive, or high quality copies, there ain't much if any difference between 6 and 12 point.

 

[DrkMtnDew]

If you're disregarding quality go with 6 point and I wish you luck. If you're using flank drive, or high quality copies, there ain't much if any difference between 6 and 12 point.

lower quality 12pts. are just a headache.

 

[route246]

Thanks for all of the responses. This is very enlightening. I also have 6-pt combo wrenches but they do look odd when I think about it.

 

[redsky49]

When ratchets were only 36 teeth (or less), 12 point sockets made some sense for fasteners that were difficult to access.

With 60 and 72 tooth ratchets I rarely reach for a 12 point socket anymore.

In the past, I did round off some fasteners with a 12 point socket. Can't remember the last time that has happened with a 6 point.

 

[Hammer1963]

6 points unless its a 12 point bolt.

 

[handyvorb]

I work on Audi's for a living and the only 12 pt sockets we need are 10, 13, 15, 19, and 24 (I have those in short and deep). Only used on our 12 pt crank bolts and rare 12 pt bolts/nuts.

I also have an Imperial 12pt socket set at the house for the ARP stud nuts for the project cars.

Bottom line, only use 12pt if you have to.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I've also read somewhere that 12 points can be used for square fasteners too (but I have no idea where on earth anyone would run into a square fastener).

Older square nuts and square headed lag bolts are sized differently and no 12 pt sockets will fit them, requiring 8 pt sockets. Newer ones are sized so that 12pt sockets do generally fit them, but most lag bolts are hex headed now, and you don't often run into stove bolts with square nuts.

Charles

 

[Rickntenn]

We see a few 12 point fasteners . The one that come to mind are mainly on drivelines and starter bolts.

 

[farmmech86]

I always thought that 12pt sockets were designed to be used with breaker bars and t-handles...from back in the "old days" when ratchets were just coming out and were expensive or rare. The extra contact points made it faster and easier to use a breaker bar in a confined space because it gave a tighter swing and it is easier to center the socket on the bolt than 6pt.

I have not personally had trouble with 12pt sockets rounding off bolt heads. In my experience, if a bolt is stuck/rusty/damaged it is going to round off no matter if you are using 6pt or 12pt. In other words, most bolt heads that I've rounded off would have probably rounded off with any socket. I've also found that a lot of times when I round something off, it is because I am rushing the job and have my big hammer handy

Best thing I've found is: if it feels too tight, like something might round something off, then back up, think about what you are doing, squirt some liquid wrench (or kroil or pblaster or whatever you like), maybe get out the propane torch (assuming you won't melt anything or set anything on fire ).

 

[William Payne]

The advantages of 6 points are obvious with 6 point nuts and bolts, but still find this topic interesting and it makes me wonder why if 6 point is so popular why do Stahlwille sockets all have 12 points and the only 6 point they make are super duper expensive ones designed for special applications.

 

[Krokodil]

All my sockets are Gedore 12pt and I have never had any issues with bolt rounding etc. From what I read above its more of a preference than a fact type of thing.

 

[cglasgow]

As I recall, the socket contact points test that someone did here proved that the contact patches on (quality) 6- and 12-pt sockets were virtually identical. Therefore 12-pt is no more likely to round than 6-pt. So both are equally good; use whichever you prefer....

 

[dirtrider]

I have both and find them equally useful. The 6 point's I use on mostly easy to reach places where I'm using a ratchet. I have never had a problem with 12 points rounding the heads of fasteners. I actually prefer 12 points when using non ratcheting tools like wrenches, air tools, breaker bars they just fit on easier and I don't notice a difference in how tight it grips the nut. It's weird many of the larger size sockets in 1/2,3/4 and 1inch are more predominantly 12 point.

 

[cglasgow]

It's weird many of the larger size sockets in 1/2,3/4 and 1inch are more predominantly 12 point.

Maybe it's assumed that large sizes are more likely to be used on breaker bars?

 

[ohmfab]

I use both 6 point and 12 point for shallow sockets. I use only 6 point for deep and impact sockets. I find it is less likely to slip when needing a deep socket if it's a 6 point, easier to keep it square on the fastener. For torquing down anything I always use a 6 point unless a 12 point is required.

Where I find a 12 point socket really useful is removing hard to reach bolts like upper bellhousing bolts. The 12 point sockets that I use are Proto and Gedore and they fit the fasteners really tightly.

Omer

 

[handyvorb]

As I recall, the socket contact points test that someone did here proved that the contact patches on (quality) 6- and 12-pt sockets were virtually identical. Therefore 12-pt is no more likely to round than 6-pt. So both are equally good; use whichever you prefer....

The contact patches are the same. The difference is when the bolt head begins deformation, on a 12pt socket the bolt head has a place to deform, where a quality tight fitting 6pt socket the sides of the bolt head can only deform into itself (preventing from being rounded).

 

[cruiser808]

I say each has its own benefits. I use both depending on the application. I do lots of work on old stuff before 2000.

 

[shampoop]

for 3/8" and 1/2" drive sizes i use exclusively 6 point impact sockets. You need to own them, and if you already have those, what's the use in having 12pt or even chrome sockets? There's just no use for them. Chrome sockets are only useful when you're never going to put them on a impact gun, and 12pt sockets are only useful if you're using a 12pt fastener.

 

[Buckgnarly]

You need to own them, and if you already have those, what's the use in having 12pt or even chrome sockets?

Thinner walls for tight spots.

I never understood why people argue 12 vs 6pt wrenches, sockets, etc....teh answer is obvious, and should be REALLY obvious to anyone who belongs to this forum: BUY BOTH!!!!

 

[Theloniousmonk]

I think 12pt is best for title pages and headlines... the 6pt, afaik, is a fairly standard size for bodies of text.

 

[shampoop]

Thinner walls for tight spots.

I never understood why people argue 12 vs 6pt wrenches, sockets, etc....teh answer is obvious, and should be REALLY obvious to anyone who belongs to this forum: BUY BOTH!!!!

That's what I used to think as well, except i've never run into a situation where a fractionally thicker impact socket won't work. I used to think I was going to fill out my chrome or 12 point sets, but then the more i use my tools, the more i realize how pointless they are.

 

[MBfreak]

I have a complete set of "automotive sizes" 6 and 12 points, 1/2" drive.
The 12 pt stay in the shadow mostly. A more unusual use of the 12 point is to hammer them down over a insex bolt ( internal hex for an allen key) that has a round head. When these are made in 8k quality, zink plated and then screwed into a typical MB engine from the 80ies they tend to corrode in place ( Cast iron, aluminium, copper gaskets, zinkplating makes a wonderful self-fusing fastener) After having rounded the internal hx despit using a perfect allen key hammered in place, the next remedy is to take a 12 point socket, just slightly to small to fit over the cylindrical head of the bolt and hammer the socket over the bolt. Thus you provide a poor man´s XZN 12 point bolt head, and more often then not the bolt will come out. But, once in a while the bolt breaks off halfway down.

Ola

 

[Buckgnarly]

That's what I used to think as well, except i've never run into a situation where a fractionally thicker impact socket won't work. I used to think I was going to fill out my chrome or 12 point sets, but then the more i use my tools, the more i realize how pointless they are.

I'm actually in the same boat, I keep wanting to fill out my 12pts into 6's, but can't justify it when I have 3/8-1/2"Hansen racks complete with impacts.

Though Craftsman has the 82pc laser etched 6pts down to 99 from 129.99 this weekend.....so tempting.....

 

[Theloniousmonk]

I( internal hex for an allen key) that has a round head. When these are made in 8k quality, zink plated and then screwed into a typical MB engine from the 80ies they tend to corrode in place ( Cast iron, aluminium, copper gaskets, zinkplating makes a wonderful self-fusing fastener)

Ola

It also keeps the heli-coil people in business.

12pt. is also good for removing the damn security lock on audi wheels - alot of people "loose" the socket... just hammer the socket on... i've cracked a few deeps doing this though.

 

[chewy7]

I think 12pt is best for title pages and headlines... the 6pt, afaik, is a fairly standard size for bodies of text.

lol