teamextreme
Well-known member
Really? #6 solid bare copper destroyed by a string trimmer? Not sure I buy that. It'll do a number on stranded, insulated, I'm sure, as-in destroying the insulation, but GEC doesn't need insulation.
60A Subpanel Feed Questions
- Thread starter TurboEuro88
- Start date
Really? #6 solid bare copper destroyed by a string trimmer? Not sure I buy that. It'll do a number on stranded, insulated, I'm sure, as-in destroying the insulation, but GEC doesn't need insulation.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
You apparently have a reading comprehension issue.
#6 solid cu is the min size required to "avoid" protection requirements NOT #4...
OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
For the purposes of most, if not all, home owners installing GEC to ground rods, the cost difference between #6 and #8 solid bare copper wire isn't enough to matter. It really only adds up when dealing with larger, bulk quantities of wire. For the purposes of my install it's a realistic difference of about $7 to go with the larger wire - IMO I'd be foolish to not spend the extra $7 to know I don't need to run the GEC in a conduit of any kind.
teamextreme
Well-known member
Apparently so. My bad. For some reason I thought it was #4.
OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
Another update to this thread... Got the ground rods installed. For $65 I rented a rotary hammer drill and the ground rod driver bit from Home Depot, and frankly this was the smartest money spent. I think each rod took less than 10 minutes each to get driven to depth. I marked them out 2ft from my garage foundation and 16ft apart. Still need to run the ground wire itself but the "hard" part was simply getting these rods installed.
Next, and hopefully final update, will be the results of the inspection, hopefully by the end of this month.
Next, and hopefully final update, will be the results of the inspection, hopefully by the end of this month.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
16’ seperation?
You only needed 6’
You only needed 6’
OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
That's the minimum, yes. Optimal distance I read in a number of places referencing the NEC code said 16ft to isolate to electrodes. I forget the technical reason they gave, though.
pattenp
Well-known member
If you use PVC conduit sleeve for protection it doesn't need to be bonded to the GEC like when using a metal conduit sleeve.
OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
Small update - Panel box is done! Just need to get the lighting installed and I'll be ready for the inspection.
pattenp
Well-known member
Are you aware that the little tiny knockout can be used for the GEC?
OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
Yeah, I tried to knock out the small one but managed to punch out the medium knockout instead. Oh well.
Was a retainer bracket used on the back fed main as required? Any plug in breaker that is back fed is required to have one, with Siemens loadcenters it’s hard to tell without removing the adjacent breaker(s), and knowing what your looking for.
OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
I'll be honest - I have no idea what you're specifically talking of so I can't really answer that question with any amount of confidence.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Wrong one, but they do show the correct one down the page for a buck ninety eight.
Edit: this is the correct one. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-Backfed-Main-Breaker-Hold-Down-Kit-ECMBR1/202315481
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pattenp
Well-known member
I'm talking about the tiny 1/4" single knockout to the left backside of the large center knockout, not the small center of the stepped sized knockout. Actually there is one on both back sides of the large center knockout.
OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
Good to know. Never knew these things existed, honestly. I'll snag one this evening and give installing it a shot.
Never even saw those until you pointed it out
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OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
Quick question for the sparky's here -
Are there any requirements or specifications that dictate how the GEC can be run that connects both electrodes? I've got the GEC run from the subpanel to the first electrode, then from the first electrode to the second, but wasn't sure if there was anything specific I need to do to the conductor to pass inspections.
Speaking of which - I'll be getting that scheduled shortly now that all the electrical stuff is done. Fingers crossed all goes smoothly!
Are there any requirements or specifications that dictate how the GEC can be run that connects both electrodes? I've got the GEC run from the subpanel to the first electrode, then from the first electrode to the second, but wasn't sure if there was anything specific I need to do to the conductor to pass inspections.
Speaking of which - I'll be getting that scheduled shortly now that all the electrical stuff is done. Fingers crossed all goes smoothly!
I believe there is wording in the NEC that states the GEC wire to the ground rods must be continuous, and not spliced... I am not 100% sure on this abd was too lazy to look it up. When I wired my garage I ran the wire from the 2nd rod, to the first, and at the first rod simply fished the wire through the acorn without cutting or splicing it. Then connected the other end to the panel. The wire thus is one single piece from the panel, through rod 1 and to rod 2.
Brian
Brian
Continuous wire from panel to first rod, can be spliced or continuous to second rod.
The grounding electrode conductor is not allowed to be spliced (except by irreversible connection). But the wire from the first rod to the second is not a grounding electrode conductor, it is a grounding electrode jumper.
I'll say good job on using a good panel and doing a pretty nice job with the wire terminations. I probably wouldn't have left the loop in the feeder wires but it's not bad since you didn't do it to all the wires.
The grounding electrode conductor is not allowed to be spliced (except by irreversible connection). But the wire from the first rod to the second is not a grounding electrode conductor, it is a grounding electrode jumper.
I'll say good job on using a good panel and doing a pretty nice job with the wire terminations. I probably wouldn't have left the loop in the feeder wires but it's not bad since you didn't do it to all the wires.
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Kudos, on the 16'. No one does that unless the job spec's it out.
Side note......Keep the leaves and other debris away from the siding of the garage. You have very little separation between earth and sill plate.
^^^^ This was always my understanding and long-time practice.
I was since corrected that a separate bonding jumper is permitted between additional electrodes.
I still continue to loop through the first rod's clamp as it eliminates one clamp but more importantly eliminates a possible fault mode - if the clamp from the gec were to fail, the other rod is still connected.
OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
I read somewhere, probably in the NEC code, that to maximize the effectiveness of the two electrodes they need to be spaced 2x their length. Something about the possibility of them interfering with each other. Either way I had the space and the wire to do it so I figured why not. The long term plan is to turn the area where they are into a landscaped area of some kind so at that point they'll be plenty buried and out of sight. More concerned about passing inspections right now than anything. Worst case I think I'd have to replace the GEC since I spliced it on the run from the 1st electrode to the 2nd. Not the end of the world.
Appreciate all the other feedback on the wiring. I am by no means a pro but have seen the pro's work and try to do my best to emulate that.
OP
TurboEuro88
Well-known member
Small update. Or kind of a big update.... Passed inspection today. Appreciate all the help along the way. Glad to have this behind me
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Congrats. Nice to have that done
ford33
Well-known member
Congratulations.