6pt or 12pt Sockets for hand tools
- Thread starter ToddG
- Start date
You're not in the Midwest rust belt. Go through a few Ohio winter's and then ask that.
Ton ton
Well-known member
I deal with rusty fasteners from time to time.
demarpaint
Well-known member
I deal with plenty around here.
Michigan too. Up here, there's no way around it, even if your car/truck is garaged.You're not in the Midwest rust belt. Go through a few Ohio winter's and then ask that.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
With respect to the "flank drive" comment made above all current 12 point sockets that I've seen since Snap-On's patent ran out a long time ago are flank drive. This is true with all modern 12 point wrenches as well.
Wait, you live in Hawaii. No wonder you have never seen rust.
torqueman2002
Well-known member
Fasteners are like teenagers. Telling them not to makes them want to even more.
vssjim
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Just to give the guy's that think Flank Drive is a S-O god like item they need to remember S-O stole it from Bonney tools as they invented Loc-Rite and S-O had to pay them after the court case was found they had copied Bonney's patents.
inliner311
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2022
- Messages
- 38
I wish there were more people who preferred 12 points in my area. I'd happily trade my extra 12 point sockets for 6 point sockets.
Last edited:
Ole Slewfoot
Well-known member
Hay guys, what kind of tool do I need to operate my 8 point sockets?
Eight point ratchet with an eight point extension should do the trick.
I have a brand-new set of six-point sockets I will trade for Snap-On twelve points.
Ton ton
Well-known member
Brilliant answer!
Ton ton
Well-known member
Another brilliant answer!
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
On smaller sizes they are USELESS !
About 50 years ago, I went all 6 point. If I ever need a 12 point, I will buy it !
Benny Franklin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2023
- Messages
- 85
Most of my shallow chrome sockets are 12pt, except for one Craftsman set that has shallow 6pt in smaller sizes and my 11/16 12pt impact socket for head studs on 6.0 Powerstrokes
Even have a set of 12pt 3/4 drive shallow sockets up to 50mm (several skips but I don't need them often)
Then I have sets of metric and SAE 6pt deep impact up to 32mm and 1.25" with a few metric skips
Then there's the middle ground sockets like my 1" drive SAE up to 2" set, not true deepwell but not exactly shallow either
Even have a set of 12pt 3/4 drive shallow sockets up to 50mm (several skips but I don't need them often)
Then I have sets of metric and SAE 6pt deep impact up to 32mm and 1.25" with a few metric skips
Then there's the middle ground sockets like my 1" drive SAE up to 2" set, not true deepwell but not exactly shallow either
CGarage
Well-known member
It's a self checkout thing.
Garcky
Well-known member
I pretty much have both, in sockets. In reality, I pay no attention, except in very special cases. If I need a 6-point socket, I'll grab one. Otherwise, it's the first socket I can reach in the size I need. All of my impact sockets, of course, are 6-point.
But, of course, I'm just a home teamer now, so what I do is irrelevant. But, I used to be a line mechanic. I did the same thing then.
But, of course, I'm just a home teamer now, so what I do is irrelevant. But, I used to be a line mechanic. I did the same thing then.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Oddly, impact sockets are where 12 point are most valuable to me since I use an impact to remove 12 point head bolts. Most recent example has been my best friend's F350 6.0 Diesel which in spite of having all of Bulletproof Diesel's modifications which include using ARP studs he still managed to burn a hole through a piston quite honestly though his own shear stupidity. A 12 point 11/16" socket and the mighty THOR impact was needed to remove the nuts from these studs which are torqued to 210 ft-lb on this engine. These are a true ball-buster to remove with a breaker bar.
This has to be one of the most discussed topics on Garage Journal, choose one or the other or both. There is no magic answer only specific application situations. This is something like the "does the ground go up up or down on receptacles?". Just for fun I did a search (something most people never do) on 6pt vs 12pt and it came back with 18 pages of results.
CGarage
Well-known member
CGarage
Well-known member
What amazes me is that there are clear “best practices” that no one seems to follow, and that is wild to me.
1) Aviation uses 12 point fasteners frequently. So in aviation, 12 point sockets are needed.
2) In areas of limited access, 12 point sockets offer distinct advantages compared to 6 point sockets. There are automotive applications for this.
3) If the 12 point socket fits the fastener snug, there is limited risk of rounding the fastener. This never seems to be discussed.
4) If access isn’t an issue, there is less risk of rounding fasteners with 6 point sockets.
1+2+3=3%
4=97%
I feel like I'm the only one not impressed by Thor.
What makes you think these are not followed, let alone by anyone?
CGarage
Well-known member
The fact that there are 18 pages of discussion on the topic and that every tool catalog I have seen fails to show ideal applications for each.
25 years ago, I didn’t know the answer to 12 point vs 6 point when I was buying my first Facom sets and had to make this decision. I bought the 12 point sets, btw.
So your not knowing means no one else knows either?
Thread seems to indicate the exact opposite of what you're saying. Tool catalogs probably figure it doesn't take much intellect to know when to use a 6 vs 12.
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
Because sockets can be rotated into position easier than a wrench.
BTT:
12-point are probably OK for larger sockets (i.e. typical sizes that use 1/2" drive or larger), since there is more contact area. But for anything in the 1/4" to 3/8" drive range, 6-point will be better for 6-point fasteners. Smaller 12-point sockets will be more likely to round off the fastener. However, 12-point sockets are needed for 12-point fasteners.
A complete set would consist of:
6-point shallow - Metric
6-point shallow - Inch
6-point deep - Metric
6-point deep - Inch
12-point shallow - Metric
12-point shallow - Inch
12-point deep - Metric
12-point deep - Inch
Double Square
E-Torx
E-Torx Plus
Spline - which is compatible with (mostly) all of the above, but not the best solution for anything except spline fasteners.
Then of course there's chrome and impact variants, as well as bit sockets and drag links. And all of these are available in different drive sizes. Oh yeah, don't forget about pass-through sockets. There's probably more than I'm forgetting.
If fundage is an issue, start with Spline, and go from there. Stick to impact for 1/2" drive sockets (and larger) for further savings.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
You forgot the infamous Toyota head bolt double hex and the VW Ribe. The double hex looks like an XZN but the angles are different.
CGarage
Well-known member
So your not knowing means no one else knows either?
Thread seems to indicate the exact opposite of what you're saying. Tool catalogs probably figure it doesn't take much intellect to know when to use a 6 vs 12.
It seems that I am not the only one. If I was the only one, there would not be 18 pages of discussion surrounding this subject on just this one forum.
Whoever runs the curriculum for the technical programs/schools in the US should have taught this topic better. I once asked a few old US auto mechanics with 30+ years experience this exact question. They could not tell me the exact reason for 12 point sockets other than the access advantage in tight areas. That was the extent of their knowledge.
jsmeece
Well-known member
They said modern high tooth ratchets took care of the accessibility issue. All of them I know use 6 point sockets and only use 12 point sockets on 12 point fasteners.
Last edited:
ArmyVW_GuyInTX
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Your are Not the only one.
You bought better tools that is the difference - one cannot compare horror freight to Facom or Hazet, or the over glorified snap on. The tolerances and quality are not even close. Better quality 12 point tools fit the fastener much better than sloppy **** HF 6 point ones. The other fact is that in today's world there are MANY more applications where a 12 point is the ONLY tools that will work. Try using a "6 point is king" wrench when reaching inside a multi engine helicopter in where you have to work by feel and cannot see due to the confined spaces - let me know how that works.
One style or brand is not a solution to all.
Garcky
Well-known member
Well, fasteners that use smaller heads generally require less torque, so I'd guess the 12-point sockets are fine in 95% of situations. Actually, I have all 6-point sockets for all of the large-size fasteners. Everything over 3/4" get's a 6-point socket consistently. Why? Because the torque needed to loosen (or tighten) them is much higher. 6-point sockets are less likely to slip or break at those higher torques than 12-point.
Bottom line, though, is that if you have tools of decent quality, either socket design will work just fine. Just use the one that's handy, really, in an appropriate drive size for the fastener. Simple, really. No points are awarded for using 1/4" drive sockets on large fasteners.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Where does one find sloppy **** HF 6 point sockets since with the exception of ICON, which are very good, HF only sells 12 point sockets?
CGarage
Well-known member
100%