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Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.

Strouty

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How is the testing going?


My brother was working on his 7.3 diesel, he bought rebuilt injectors and was all set to install them, but they sent the wrong gaskets for the valve covers, so he has to wait until he gets the right ones.
 
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86turbodsl

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Ok, an update. I spent most of saturday and a couple hours sunday afternoon working on the truck and i can report success! The truck now runs perfect from cold start with no preheating. The injector armature plates were running a thou or less clearance to the injector bodies. The oil valves slowly recess over time into the injector bodies and lowers the clearance. As it gets down to around a thou, the oil surface tension holds the armature plate down and the injector doesn't fire until the oil warms. The symptoms are terrible / no cold starts, with injectors suddenly coming online one by one as the truck warms. Nearly everybody i discussed with said to replace injectors to the tune of about $1600. $60 kit off ebay and back in business for a while at least.

I am struggling with the boiler. Put another 55 gallons of oil into the holding tank, still waiting for my buddy to finish my settling tank which sits between the main tanks and the preheat tank. I installed the dual level switch, and it works great. Working out the logic and relay to turn the solenoid on and off to allow oil to drain into the preheat tank.

The flame thrower, i'm in a quandry where to mount it that will both be lightable and not have problems with sooting up. I think i'm going to just revise it to all stainless 304 design, and abandon the gas pilot design, and move towards a high energy spark from a oil burner setup, with long electrodes somewhere down in the pit to light it. I would then use a fire eye to sense flame and run the whole mess from the plc. My issue with the gas pilot was the sense/spark needed to be about down in the pot to light the flame and keep the sense line in the flame. And i'm worried about getting the wire down that far and it not burning up and shorting. So far the only things in there that have survived are the copper line for oil, which is cooled, the steel air tube, and anything stainless.

The gas lighting is turning out to be a pita, but i can't figure out a good way to light the oil without being there to do so. i really like the simplicity of the drip burner, but maybe this is why everybody else is just dealing with super clean oil and converted beckett burners. Stay tuned, i'm hoping to lick this one.
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The first photo shows where i had planned to put the gas flame thrower which after i put the hole in i realized i would need to put a hole in the refractory, which i am not sure i want to do. My thought was the flame thrower over in the corner, pointed at the pot, and the lighting electrodes hanging off the main burner tube and connected by silicone spark plug wires or similar to the high voltage transformer.

Im very torn. Need this thing going quickly but nothing seems to be quick on this thing.
 

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86turbodsl

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McMaster to the rescue. Adapters and check valves showed up today. Much better than the rinkydink plastic adapters lmi ships with the plastic pumps. Will screw into any pump I choose to use and I don't have to replace the check valves every year like they want. Now to make a wall stand and try it out.

Also spent some time this afternoon engineering the door opener shaft. Quite a few parts to machine unfortunately.fe4c486b47dbd3eace08752028881fee.jpg413c961d7fc1b688ccb63055667bc6e4.jpgaa75c8e4842feaa91fe9e5cb4602ad3f.jpg

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86turbodsl

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Busted a** and got the wall mount for the pump done tonight. I think it turned out well and i put the the kreg jig to work. The pump makes way less noise when it's clamped down and screwed to the wall so i think it's going to be ok. There won't be any question the boiler is running but i have tunes going most of the time anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem. I threw it on the wall and went inside to give the missus some attention, and will finish the plumbing tomorrow. I could really use a couple of days off to work on this. Starting to get pretty nervous, we have significantly cold weather moving in, and i'm concerned that the temps in here will drop too far. I can manually burn with a little work and dump into the floor, but while i'm gone, i get nervous. I need to make it through about a week. I do have the salamander but still don't have enough insulation for my taste, and saturday is half blown due to a family visit. dad is also in the hospital again for his tumor, so i have to take some time out for that too. Pics of the pump setup below.6111840a669c75a97ff5ea1727cc299f.jpg2343dc9be8819849f0f77ba8644114eb.jpg
 

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86turbodsl

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I'm disgusted. I hooked up the tank to the preheat tank tonight and the solenoid i have for it doesn't gravity flow. Now i don't have any more left, so i think i'm dead in the water until i find a valve. Probably out of options at this point. Grrr.
 

Strouty

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All this effort must be killing your morale when things like this keep happening. I know you can make it work, but at what point do you give up? I struggle with things like this too, is there an alternative? Could you buy an off the shelf unit to get it done so you have heat that won't make you nervous while you are trying to sleep?? I don't want to come off negative, but I do want to at least play devil's advocate. Everything you are doing is over my head and above my pay grade, but I try and follow along...... ;)
 
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86turbodsl

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Off the shelf heaters using waste oil are thousands. Not in the budget. My alternative is a full system drain out and don't worry about it and just not work out there. I'm not quite there yet. Maybe by this weekend though if i have to keep babysitting things. I ordered a solenoid off amazon. Gets here tomorrow. We'll see what happens.

On a positive note, i did hook up the dosing pump last night, plumbed to oil tank and it does spit oil out the outlet. Not sure if it's enough yet. Hard to tell when it's coming out of the line so fast.
 

Strouty

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My dad has a waste oil furnace but he also has a forced hot air as backup, his furnace was new, but with used oil you can have hiccups. The biggest issue he has had was quality and consistency of the oil, he doesn’t have near the setup you have, he hardly takes the time to filter it half the time. I think his furnace was right around $5k installed.
 
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86turbodsl

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Yeah, that oil inconsistency is the reason for the drip stove. Waaay less sensitive. Father in law ran a waste oil heater for years but he was super careful and made his own oil. My oil comes from a restaurant, and various motor oil sources from friends and family.

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86turbodsl

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Some good news, i hooked the metering pump back up to the boiler, and found that it appears to inject enough oil to do the job. Pretty happy about that. Once i get the injection rate to where i like it, it should be pretty hands off from then on. I think the needle valve would have needed constant attention, particularly as the oil stock changed.

I'll keep working on it as the cold hits.
 
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86turbodsl

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Ok, so this happened:



45f0289618f38a3b875081f48a0281a9.jpg


And, .................... $250. For both.
 

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86turbodsl

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I set up the salamander pointed at the boiler. Set the temp at 50F. I had an oil solenoid ordered on amazon yesterday, with one day shipping. Amazon screwed it up, put the solenoid on the wrong truck and it finally shipped today. From Cleveland. Where i was yesterday. :wtf:

Some days you just can't win.
 

jbmatth

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You say some days you can't win but you did score a syncrowave 300 for $250 and another machine thrown in for free. I'd say you are a bit ahead all said and done.

JB
 
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86turbodsl

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Thanks for the confidence, but we'll see how good i feel if the boiler freezes and splits. Very nervous about this coming week and it's 21F predicted temps! YIKES!

I'm not sure those syncros even work. The surplus place was unable to test them. So maybe they're just copper scrap. We shall see. The one with the sequencer does look near brand new though.
 
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86turbodsl

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Yeah I know, I have a welder fetish. Right now I have the following:

Miller CP-200 MIG
Miller CP-300 MIG
Compakomatic 3PH MIG
Miller 330 A/BP TIG/STICK
Miller Syncrowave 300 (X2)
Airco 330 a/bp clone (defunct/parts)

The CP300 was my first attempt at the Haas-Kamp conversion and was unsuccessful for now. The CP200 was successful and works great.
The Compakomatic is fully functional but only on 3phase. I am semi-actively trying to give it away.
The 330 is my current stick/tig welder. It's a sine wave transformer beast.
The new Syncros are square wave TIG/Stick. Square wave works a lot better for beginners on Aluminum TIG. Will probably need parts from one to fix the other so one good one. Likely it could replace the 330. Really only need 2, one MIG and one TIG/stick. I use all 3 processes regularly. So theoretically i could get back down to 2.
I'll probably need to keep a couple parts machines up on pallet rack for repairs.

Hey, you asked! :)


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86turbodsl

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My buddy and i built a settling tank today. It's a section out of a Nissan truck driveshaft. And I brought it home and fitted it out. Then started working on mounting it. I am so darn fussy I used a level to get unistrut straight. Hey remember I'm a struggling perfectionist?

Got the new 1/2in gravity feed solenoid in the mail and plumbed it in to the preheat tank.

Hoping to reconnect the oil supply in the morning.
I was beat as it was 1030pm when I came inside. Snow is falling. Salamander is set at 50f. It's about 55 in the shop at the moment. The tank was half empty when I got home so it is running some.

c37d19ae965125a8bb5027fb8f47e957.jpgb4d940d7c420387468247e8cb93728a3.jpgdb93506597ad064117905a229931cb0e.jpg

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Strouty

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I have my fair share of perfectionist tendencies too.

Last night the heat at the house was not working, so I was doing some frantic repairs, no dinner for me, too tired, but I got heat, luckily my hoarder side had kept a spare burner unit and I could pull the transformer off it.

As for the settling tank, probably the most interesting repurpose of a driveshaft I have ever seen.

I am actively looking for a Miller 350 tig, so you ****. I found one for a bit over a grand, but the seller is a flake and refuses to call me, they will email, but not answer any of my questions about the machine.
 
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86turbodsl

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Ah that ***** dude. Packrat can pay off! I've pulled a few things out of the pile recently and save a ton. I think organization is the key. Get a good breakfast. You will feel better.

Hgr has a couple of Miller 350s. I didn't look at em real close, but I could if you need me to. It's crazy how low these things go for out if that place.

23f outside. I need to check shop temp. Going to visit an uncle today so most of the day is shot.

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86turbodsl

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Mounted the settling tank this am, using repurposed strut clamps, HVAC ducting, bits of metal and bolts. Seems solid. Then plumbed up the supply side and pex to the preheat tank.

It's filling now, but slow. I should have added an air bleed to the top.

Won't have time to run the boiler until later tonight.

6f099badada10d62b6e3392a8d6f0d9b.jpgce30317363b4123237636baaa24ee0bf.jpg0e0d7d8e7bc8b195056133401a671c66.jpg864a870cd0caefbfb9cf99fd60a1078e.jpg

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Strouty

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Fingers crossed! What temp did the shop end up being? We haven’t been in the 20s yet, but next week looks like it will be, I am almost ready, maybe tomorrow. ;)
 
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86turbodsl

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Shop is at about 48F. I did not fire the boiler today. But I can report after returning home that the settling tank works perfectly, the oil solenoid works perfectly, and the float switches work perfectly. It took about 3 to 4 minutes to fill the preheat tank and a couple more to reheat to the set temp. I'm super happy with that. All I have to do is setup the relay circuit for the solenoid and it will be automatic.

Should be online tomorrow.

:)

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86turbodsl

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The salamander has kept it to a temp. Couple gallons a day. Want to get it warmer than 45f though.

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86turbodsl

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Well my relay logic works great for oil tank fill. I really need to pretty it up though. Fill takes about 2 minutes. Temp drops about 40f by end of fill and it takes about 4 mins to catch up. I may need to bump up my proportional gain for that.

I did not burn today, I still have holes to patch in my burner mount plate.

I will finish up the tank cover tonight at least.ecbb374839f7029e239b7565a939d492.jpg9b0e54c43831e8c6fc14ce9d77d7c362.jpg

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86turbodsl

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Kreg to the rescue. Fully foam insulated and completed preheat tank. Minus final wiring anyway. ee57b06c6bfe5047d61e6a77cfb0206e.jpg

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86turbodsl

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What a horrible sight. I heard from my boy this afternoon when he checked the shop temp that the smell was bad in there. I arrived home tonight to find this mess:

The thermocouple controlling the PID / temp controller had gone intermittent connection, which resulted in the heater element BOILING the oil to whatever ungodly temp it can get to, resulting in the tank, fittings, valves, sealant, switches and everything else overheating and failing. There was oil all over the floor and climbing the wall, as well as running into the bathroom. I'll never get it out of the walls. Sawdust working on soaking as much up as i can.

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The tank itself was the only survivor.

What a beat down. :(
 

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86turbodsl

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Thinking seriously about letting the PLC control the temp instead of the dumb PID, so it can do a sanity check / secondary temp measurement.
 

jbmatth

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Wow that is no fun, I'm sorry you are having so much trouble with this, I wish there was some advise I could offer but I really don't have any.

JB
 
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86turbodsl

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Thanks. It has been some trials for sure to heat this barn. Maybe i'm destined to just be cold all the time... :(
 
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86turbodsl

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Got right back to work on the tank. Had a bud help me weld up an extra couple bungs, one for an rtd sanity check and an overflow line. Picked up more insulation and cut some of that and some new panels. Ordered a Madison float level kit off eBay. No more Chinese controls. Not worth the headaches.
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u3b3rg33k

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May I suggest a PTC heating element instead of a standard resistor for when you rebuild? that should help mitigate runaway problems. otherwise logic in a better controller (as mentioned) can help you, too. my 3D printer has some safeties in the firmware to shut down the heater if it detects runtime that doesn't line up with the temp it's reading.
 
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Strouty

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Another thought would be just to put the entire system on a mechanical timer for testing purposes, set the timer for an hour when you leave, you could have it come on for 30 minutes every hour after that, that way if it tried to do this again it would self regulate. Then when you are in the shop you can test it under a watchful eye.
 
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86turbodsl

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Hmm. I did plan to use the plc to limit on time to the ssr, and I'm not sure where to get a ptc heater. I'm set up for a water heater element at present.

Edit: i found some documentation that PTC heaters max out around 160F, i need to be able to go higher for some oils.

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