Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

[u3b3rg33k]

Hmm. I did plan to use the plc to limit on time to the ssr, and I'm not sure where to get a ptc heater. I'm set up for a water heater element at present.

Edit: i found some documentation that PTC heaters max out around 160F, i need to be able to go higher for some oils.

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I have a heatsinked 100W PTC enclosure heater that definitely reaches >212F sufrace temp as evidenced by water boiling when I splash it. power output has dropped significantly by that point (starts out around 500W, drops off as it gets hotter).

it's not this one but shows the temp/wattage curve:
https://www.thorlabs.com/thorproduc...MIi432ncfZ3gIVTb7ACh3mtQRPEAQYBCABEgJu-vD_BwE

here's the one I have - the 100W model. 200C temp
https://www.omega.com/heaters/pdf/NCH-37000.pdf

 

[86turbodsl]

Omega does not seem to have any self regulated immersion heaters. I'm not going to have time to re-engineer the entire system to go self regulating anyway. I'll take my chances with the backup sensing. Thank you for your input.

 

[Strouty]

Hope you are having better luck with things.

 

[86turbodsl]

Got the new Madison float kit and with some finagling it will work great just not as designed. Also spent some quality time with the mig making the burner back to pristine condition so I can start over on the gas burner.

Snow keeps falling. Not even Thanksgiving yet. Usually we don't get much snow before then.

I also pumped waste veg oil that had been sitting for a few years from my filter rig up to the holding tank. I had guessed that there would be three dead mice, I stopped counting at 8. Eww. Now I need to make a mouse scoop to get em out of the bottom.

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[Strouty]

I hate mice almost as much as I hate snow. Both can ruin your day really quick and you can’t really control either of them.

 

[86turbodsl]

Interesting how many of us hate snow yet still live where it does. I'm only still here because of my work.

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[Strouty]

My GF won’t leave and I like her, so I stay.

 

[86turbodsl]

A good enough reason in my book! [emoji6]

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[86turbodsl]

Made this makeshift scoop for the barrel o mice.

And got this mess of gooey mice out of the bottom. Once that's done, heating up the upper barrel to drain and pump up to the holding tank. What a mess.


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[Strouty]

I really didn't need to see that.

 

[Spareparts]

Snow S N O W
h o n a
i e n
t t
s enought said

 

[86turbodsl]

I really didn't need to see that.

Sorry dude. Luckily they were covered in WVO so you cant see much.. no smell either.

 

[86turbodsl]

Snow S N O W
h o n a
i e n
t t
s enought said

i have no idea what you're saying there.

 

[86turbodsl]

I think i have decided to split the PLC into 2 smaller: a heating and a building controller. I can hang one of my $1 boxes by the boiler and put one of the smaller plcs in it and get up and running a lot faster than running all the wiring over to the entry wall.

The boiler needs to be automated faster than i need the building controller setup.

My brother and family are in town, so i don't know how fast i can make it happen though.

I also am closing in on the tank switches. A little fab work and we're in business. Thanks Jeff.

 

[Spareparts]

Let me try it again SNOW **** No One Wants I didn't even look after I hit post, it rearrenged all the letters Sorry

 

[rmalkow2]

Interesting how many of us hate snow yet still live where it does. I'm only still here because of my work.

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Copy that!
At least for another year or two, then we will see.

Too early for this snow and cold, too early to deal with mice. Just killed one that was using the console in my daily driver as a nightly motel room.

Hope you get your heater issues sorted and make your place warm and comfortable to work in.

 

[86turbodsl]

I think i have a plan on the heater. A bit of fab work, but i'm making some progress on that front, so i hope i can get it licked in a week or two. I'm only using about 2-3 gallons of diesel a day to keep it at 45-50F, so i can live with that for a bit i think.

My bro is in town for a few days, so i'm not getting very much done, but it's worth it. Family is where time is well spent. He's gone Thurs morning, and probably Friday i'll blow the last of the cellulose into the attic and close it up for the winter. I picked the rest up on Saturday.

I tried to put one of the $1 NEMA boxes on the wall above the radiant tubing, it won't fit by 1 inch. I will have to put it on the wall just to the right. Those boxes are BIG! But i don't have to buy and ship one that's more appropriate, so that's nice. I'll network the PLC's together eventually, but for now, i'll just scab it in and get it working. I have to remember not to be a perfectionist all the time. Wonder if that will ever change.

 

[86turbodsl]

Brrrr. 15F tonight. It's COLD out there baby!

I took 5 minutes and took the man door off the hinges and added a new bottom seal. Good time to do it, there was an east wind and it was COLD coming under the door. Sealed that up. Worked on mounting the new Madison floats in the lid of the preheat tank. Undecided if i should break out and hook up the TIG to weld the mount fittings onto the lid or should i just tack with the MIG. it's not the best at tiny stuff, It is an industrial 200A mig after all. And all i have is 0.035 wire at the moment.

Also after playing with the packaging of the gas burner on the main burner i am thinking really seriously about trying to develop a babington burner again. By the time i get the gas burner down into the pit far enough to light up the pool, the burner is right in the thick of the burn, so everything has to be stainless to live. Then to light the burner, i need to have electrodes that sit right in the fire and survive. It's very tough.

I orginally abandoned the gun style burners because i didn't want to worry about clogging, because my oil sources are so variable. So i wanted something near impervious to oil quality. Only 2 types meet that criteria: Drip style and Babington. There are many examples of drip style out there, but not that many babington. There *ARE* some babingtons out there that are auto-light though and that's the appeal. It would eliminate the gas burner part of my conundrum.

I'm torn.

 

[86turbodsl]

Here's one I found last night that does exactly what I need it to. Just gotta copy.

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[86turbodsl]

Happy Thanksgiving garage journal!

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[86turbodsl]

Taking advantage of the nice weather and blowing the last of the insulation into the attic.

Burned several hours last night. It got up to 58 by quitting time. Some random photos of what I was doing.

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[86turbodsl]

Finally after 17 years, I have a fully insulated shop. I am tired. Goodnight.

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[Strouty]

I bet that will cut down on the heat loss. Do you have any ceiling fans? Those made a huge difference in my shop, but I don’t have a tight ceiling like you do, so it might be an unbelievable difference in yours.

 

[86turbodsl]

I sure hope so. I was burning about 15 dollars a day in fuel oil to heat the partial insulated space to 45f. I don't have ceiling fans. I do have some portable fans for cooling. I don't think radiant floor shops generally use fans for heat distribution.

It was interesting yesterday we noticed that there was a very clear line on the roof where we could see where the insulation stopped. Melted snow on one side, full snow cover on the other.

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[Strouty]

I forgot you had radiant, no fan needed. You had been talking salamander and I got forced hot air in my head, plus that is what I use. It costs me about $10 a day to heat my shop to 55, I am willing to bet that half that goes out through the ceiling at least judging by the size of my icicles.

 

[86turbodsl]

Watch that heat loss. I heated one barrel of fuel oil through the old system before insulation and ceiling. The edge of my roof is soft because of it.

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[Strouty]

My roof is soft, period.

 

[86turbodsl]

Ewww. Sorry. :-(

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[86turbodsl]

Got the floats hooked up and doing 2nd burn. My conclusion: can't get burner 2.0 up and running fast enough. It's a pita to light and combustion is very uneven. It's blowing puffs of smoke through the cracks from the pressure. I can do better.


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[bimmer1980]

Finally after 17 years, I have a fully insulated shop. I am tired. Goodnight.

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Congrats!!! It all takes time!

I'm into year 9 of my garage build and currently working on installing a natural gas boiler for the floor heat. Your boiler work has been enlightening.

The insulation should be very helpful! How tight are the doors? Seals, etc?

I think the door seals are the weakest link in any garage build...

 

[86turbodsl]

I have to add gasketing to the doors. Might do that tomorrow. Burner is really bugging me. The Ash buildup is way too fast for my liking. I'm uncomfortable walking away from it. That's not going to work when it gets real cold.

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[Strouty]

I guess you could move into the shop.

 

[86turbodsl]

I guess you could move into the shop.

HA!

I might have to. I stepped away for a few minutes last night, during which time the floor call shut off, and the boiler rocketed past the T/P valve setpoint, and blew hot water all over the place. To top it off, as it was blowing off just as i stepped in the door, i ran back to shut off the firing, and all that was behind the hot water shower. I had to turn everything off with an improvised stick. Then after it finished blowing down, i forgot to turn the water back on, so the boiler pump ran mostly dry for 7 hours while i slept.

We have teething issues for sure....

 

[Strouty]

I think you are becoming a glutton for punishment.

 

[86turbodsl]

I think I always have been... Lol

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[bimmer1980]

Oofda.... That *****. You got more patience than I would have for it....

 

[86turbodsl]

Been running the boiler the last few days, it's a PITA honestly. The turk style drip burner doesn't get the oil hot enough or vaporized enough to burn without a lot of ash buildup. I have been having to clean it daily of about a cup or two of ash, and i have to turn off the metering pump a couple of times to allow the burn to catch up before it's steady state. It solidifies my desire to move to a babington.

On that note, i had several successful tests of the babington components yesterday. I confirmed i have a working oil ignition transformer and controller, which will bring automatic ignition and fire eye controls for auto shutdown / safety.
I confirmed the suntec oil burner motor/pump combo will pump the waste oil from the preheat tank at the proper flow rate for the babington ball so i will have fuel to run it.
I confirmed i have a small vacuum pump/air compressor that is very quiet and will do the job with a little tinkering.
I bought a dremel drill press for my dremel and have 10 tiny drill bits coming to drill the orifice. I also bought a Schlage interior doorknob and got two good balls out of it for the testing. I still need to buy some steel to start fabbing up the burner chamber. I have to nail this before the really cold weather sets in.

Also this weekend, i finished up the last of the insulation above the door, and got most of the steel back on the building. There is 1 section of steel i left off as i finished up on Sunday night right before the storm hit, and it was too windy to put that last panel in place and it was dark anyway. I hope to have it up before the next storm hits as long as i can get some daylight to play with.

 

[86turbodsl]

Anybody want the compakomatic welder? FREE. Feeder not included. You have to come pickup. It was always a sweet welder. Nice smooth arc. 3ph. Did I mention free? I don't have time to mess with it anymore.

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[Strouty]

Sounds like you have been busy!

 

[86turbodsl]

Trying to anyway. Cleaning and organizing. Purging. Monitoring the boiler. Run about 2hrs in the evening keeps at 55 to 60 during the day.

Working on collecting parts for new burner and door opener.

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