To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.

Strouty

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
38,215
Location
Southern Maine
I am not looking forward to this cold snap. Hope you get the stuff figured out, sounds like you are almost there. The best part is you seem to understand what you are doing, I get lost too easily when things get all electronicky.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
I hope to be ready. If not, there's always the salamander. They are still making diesel fuel. The hard part with the plc is figuring out and calibrating the temp sensors. The rest is cake.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Had to spend today getting hay for the wife's horses. Killed a lot of time. Still no automation love. Storm hits in the AM. Not sure i'm going to work or not.
Put a lot of insulation foam behind outlet plates, Helps on the infiltration.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Been having some troubles with the feed from the burner. Intermittent flow, to the point it basically shuts down. Shut the motor off and let it sit a sec, and it's fine, but gets back to no flow eventually. Think i finally tracked down the reason when i cracked the inlet line while it was running. Instantly flowed fine. I think the siphon back down into the tank is getting so strong it's causing a negative pressure in the needle valve inlet and stopping flow. I'm going to add a tee and a standpipe and report back if it works. NEED THIS WORKING ASAP. It's going to be REAL cold on Wed. They are predicting -20F at our location Wed night. With that being about 50 degrees below freezing, any time not running is basically inviting a hard freeze of piping. I'm thinking i'm going to be very very busy that night. I have a house to keep unfrozen and don't want to spend any time outdoors.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
The standpipe does not work. As the hot oil moves from tank through pump to tee, it's hot and the pipe is not, the viscosity changes as the pipe warms up. End result of standpipe is it overflows when cold. As the pipe warms up, it flows better. I tried a check valve, it works at first, and not later. As the siphon establishes, it has too much resistance and blocks venting. I have it running now, but it's all hot.
I have two potential solutions. I'm going to change the drain pipe to much larger pipe with hopes that prevents a siphon. If that doesn't work, i'm going to add a solenoid valve that will open after the piping is hot. It will have to be plc controlled via timer though. I'm hoping the larger pipe works.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Replumbed tonight, standpipe and return moved to 3/8in and that seems to work. Steady flow on the needle valve. Shop is warming up while I enjoy a fireplace. It's 2f on its way to neg 10f.0378d18a688fdd58e6bd65a8cc740acd.jpg

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 0378d18a688fdd58e6bd65a8cc740acd.jpg
    0378d18a688fdd58e6bd65a8cc740acd.jpg
    77.9 KB · Views: 0

matt_i

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
10,725
Location
SE Michigan
Great job! nothing like a little motivation from mother nature :D

I was outside in the shop for a bit at 35F which felt quite balmy compared to a run for the trash + mail lol.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Thanks Matt! It didn't quite hit -10F, just -8F last night. I put the boiler on a timer, shut off at 2am, shop was 49F this morning at 6am. I setup the salamander at 43F and left for work. I really need to get the controls working.. lol.

I did setup a webcam pointed at the boiler gages, so at least i don't need to go out there to check on it now...

The outdoor cat doesn't want to leave the warm shop anymore. I can't blame her. She's doing good catching mice while out there too.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Thanks! I will have to rectify that! Lol!

1bc5dec0d2fd20d2d0e2b24b99ff5a74.jpg9383f3c8ac209e8c8e35924e30db3617.jpg

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 1bc5dec0d2fd20d2d0e2b24b99ff5a74.jpg
    1bc5dec0d2fd20d2d0e2b24b99ff5a74.jpg
    31.8 KB · Views: 0
  • 9383f3c8ac209e8c8e35924e30db3617.jpg
    9383f3c8ac209e8c8e35924e30db3617.jpg
    184.3 KB · Views: 1
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
43f when I got home. Pretty good. -15f right now. It dropped 5f during the sunny day! I am thinking -20f is likely.

Pic of the plumbing.0fc973839e47516a9b8df85e65630aa5.jpg

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 0fc973839e47516a9b8df85e65630aa5.jpg
    0fc973839e47516a9b8df85e65630aa5.jpg
    102.3 KB · Views: 1
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Working on door insulation. 87bf5441ca73f02da38f895675d061d7.jpg

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 87bf5441ca73f02da38f895675d061d7.jpg
    87bf5441ca73f02da38f895675d061d7.jpg
    78.5 KB · Views: 0

OldSoldier

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
131
Location
DFW
Good work on the insulation and finding a way to get out there even in the bitter cold. I'm a little surprised you didn't do the door insulation earlier. That seemed like it had the biggest impact on my shop of anything I did. I think it should make a big difference since your door is so large.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
I've been putting it off because I still have welding to do on the door.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Beautiful day today, first nice day ina while. It hit 41F today, and so i took the opportunity to open the shop up and disassemble the garage door.
0ee0797ed0d107c870491159d897d6cf.jpg

Added the brackets for the lower opener, painted and reinstalled the insulation.

92f9edab64c66db83e5aaf67cf2e3938.jpg
36157a904a243a626d3fdf40c8a9c548.jpg
fcab9783ed95d2d1f265eb29c8a76cc2.jpg
0efad10f6512a9e82c24a578185e81b2.jpg

Also added weatherstripping to the door sides and midsection. I ran out of the thicker stuff, so need to get more and open up again for the top of the door. Once it's done, i'll add the insulation for the lower section and get started on the closure mechanism and opener mechanism.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 0efad10f6512a9e82c24a578185e81b2.jpg
    0efad10f6512a9e82c24a578185e81b2.jpg
    88.5 KB · Views: 0
  • fcab9783ed95d2d1f265eb29c8a76cc2.jpg
    fcab9783ed95d2d1f265eb29c8a76cc2.jpg
    69.8 KB · Views: 0
  • 36157a904a243a626d3fdf40c8a9c548.jpg
    36157a904a243a626d3fdf40c8a9c548.jpg
    73.8 KB · Views: 0
  • 92f9edab64c66db83e5aaf67cf2e3938.jpg
    92f9edab64c66db83e5aaf67cf2e3938.jpg
    98.4 KB · Views: 0
  • 0ee0797ed0d107c870491159d897d6cf.jpg
    0ee0797ed0d107c870491159d897d6cf.jpg
    71 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Thanks!
Let's hope so. I'm finishing the insulation on the bottom half today including spray foaming in place. I'll see how far i can get on the top. I'm short a few strips of weatherstripping though. Hope to pickup tomorrow after work. No heating needed today. 57F without heat. It's warm out.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
The completed lower half. 9084281d66f7807c52535d7dc941accb.jpg

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 9084281d66f7807c52535d7dc941accb.jpg
    9084281d66f7807c52535d7dc941accb.jpg
    98.4 KB · Views: 0
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Trimmed lower and installed half upper.51f257b226b68777f1b857a882ca1658.jpg

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 51f257b226b68777f1b857a882ca1658.jpg
    51f257b226b68777f1b857a882ca1658.jpg
    85.1 KB · Views: 0
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Sweet! So this happened today.

Need to build my cooler now.b87ff07fcc75ec18667fd1a39086947c.jpg

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • b87ff07fcc75ec18667fd1a39086947c.jpg
    b87ff07fcc75ec18667fd1a39086947c.jpg
    96.1 KB · Views: 0
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Strouty

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
38,215
Location
Southern Maine
I have to figure out my cooler too. I am thinking I may start with and air cooled torch. Do you have any idea if there are quick connects for the coolers? I would like to use one cooler for multiple welders.
 

Duker

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
10,861
Location
Livingston, TX
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Most coolers are threaded connection, but as Duker says, you can get quick connects easy. I didn't think about that, i probably should do the same, since i have 2 syncros and a 330.

I just tried to unzip the cover on the old vinyl torch and got almost to the head and found a melted spot. Dahmit! Had to order another cover on amazon.

I need to order a stainless pan for the resevoir also. I already have the procon pump and motor as a surplus soda pump.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Not a huge update, but there are things going on in the background for now. I have parts on order to build a tig cooler, i have parts on order to continue the burner 2.0 build, some of which are here, and i got a denim cover for my CK230 tig torch. It fit nice and looks great.

Burner 2.0, i am trying to move to variable oil flow over the doorknob, so i can control heat output. I picked up a 1/4hp 3phase motor and a 1/4hp VFD. Motor works great on the VFD. RPMS from about 50 to 3500. No torque down low though, so i will have a minimum speed it will work at. Since it's a 3600rpm pump i'm using, i should be good at flow rates down at lower speeds. It's a 1750 rpm motor at 60hz, and seems like it works just fine at 3600 at 120Hz.
The parts on order will be machined slightly to mount the suntec pump on the 56C frame motor and i will abandon the beckett mount. Will need to figure out a holder for the transformer. The variable oil flow can be controlled by the PLC since the drive accepts modbus and several other methods of control.
That takes care of fuel flow. I should be able to start at low flow rates to get solid ignition and vaporization, and as my tube warms up to cherry red, and vaporization is much better, ramp up the fuel flow rate.
A little tougher job will be the variable air rate needed. i am looking at electronic air regulators but they are quite expensive. i could also do multiple regulators, but that solution is clunky. Jury is still out on what i will do.

On a related note, i now have burned a hole in the stainless pan that all the oil drips into. it was a matter of time i guess, but not even making it a season says i am still having trouble with oil control. I am considering getting a cast iron pot to try on the way home.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Excess heat from running a concentrated flame on the spot too long. Even stainless has a limit. What happens is the oil drips through the central copper and the surrounding air cools it down too much. unless it's real good and hot in the boiler, the oil vapor condenses on the pot walls and makes soot. once it cakes up it restricts the burn to a concentrated area usually on one side of the pot. I'm hoping the new burner takes care of that by only feeding enough air to combust, and keep things vaporized. I'm planning to split the combustion air and feed a metered amount to get the burn started and feed more in downstream to complete the burn. We'll see if it works.

What torches did you get? I'm super excited to try water cooling.
 

Strouty

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
38,215
Location
Southern Maine
Could you use a firebrick where it is hottest?

Torches I bought were the CK17 air cooled and CK18 water cooled (both superflex hoses). They take the same type of supplies, I figured for the learning curve, it would be best not to need different styles of supplies.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
I don't think so. The firebrick would need to be inside the pot i think to do any good. I'm hoping a nice low profile cast iron frying pan will work ok. The whole combustion chamber is already refractory brick.

Nice on the torches. I almost bought the CK18 set you're talking about. $157 on amazon, but then decided to look around more and found a CK230 set on ebay for $121. Rated 300A still but uses the smaller consumables. I figured i wouldn't be using it at over 300A enough to deal with the larger torch head all the time. I'm using a CK17 torch set at the moment but with a 12' lead. I can only weld right on the corner of the table closest to the machine... :(
 

Strouty

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
38,215
Location
Southern Maine
I did get the 25' leads, for that exact reason. ;) I actually wanted to buy a more expensive torch, but I decided these were perfect to start with, then once I get myself into a situation that I need the fancy torch, I can justify buying it. I was kind of proud of myself for that.

Hopefully the cast iron pan will do the trick.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Good plan. I *almost* bought myself the flex-loc torch, but talked myself out of it at the last minute. I'll get fancy later if needed.

I sure hope the pan works. I"m sure it'll change the flame dynamic. Should be interesting to see how. Horror freight has cheap pans. Details at 11.
 

Strouty

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
38,215
Location
Southern Maine
I just don’t want to see another mess of oil like the last time, that made me feel like driving out there with a mop and bucket, honestly thought I was going to be sick, I felt so bad.


I was looking at the super duper fancy one they offer, the flex loc is probably what I will end up owning, I don’t flex like I used to, so it would be helpful from my back.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Synopsis: harder to light. But seems to burn decent.

467c0e1b5b90a660dbd4387f43eec46a.jpg233e124cc177a2aaefd5de1ba7caf7bb.jpgfe2e048a172bf92949bc267e09631384.jpg

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 

Attachments

  • 467c0e1b5b90a660dbd4387f43eec46a.jpg
    467c0e1b5b90a660dbd4387f43eec46a.jpg
    99.6 KB · Views: 0
  • fe2e048a172bf92949bc267e09631384.jpg
    fe2e048a172bf92949bc267e09631384.jpg
    36.2 KB · Views: 0
  • 233e124cc177a2aaefd5de1ba7caf7bb.jpg
    233e124cc177a2aaefd5de1ba7caf7bb.jpg
    112 KB · Views: 0
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Thanks. I sure don't want you to drive over for something as mundane as mopping... [emoji6].

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Not sure it's a good idea but I switched over to veggie oil. Had to insulate all the lines. We will see how it does.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
Not so good. I found after a couple hours that the fire had gone out and due to low flow. i think the 1/4 in lines are too small for the flow rate needed with the wvo. Found that if i shut the pump off for a few seconds, i could get more flow out of the pump, so i'm thinking that the line INTO the pump is too small. I'm going to try upsizing it a couple sizes and see if that helps. If not, i'm not sure what i'm going to do. I have WAY more WVO than WMO, so i need to get this figured out for sure.
 
OP
8

86turbodsl

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
6,556
Location
Michigan
After more fiddling with it at 185F, it seemed to go ok. It's running now, but i am running the last of the wvo out of it and back to wmo for now. i need to work on it some more before i go back to wvo.

I think the key is keeping the line short, large diameter, and hot/insulated.
I need to work on the packaging for the new motor/pump and line layout before i do too much more.
I am also prepping to move to a more normal hydraulic pump if needed. Larger inlet/outlet comes with that. Tank only has a 1/4 outlet line though i think. Might need to bump that up.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom