Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

[86turbodsl]

Had a nice Christmas. Kids seemed to enjoy their gifts.

Made a nice ham dinner. Watched a few movies. Wife is watching Star wars right now, while we wait for some bread to bake.

I have been doing some programming on the boiler. It's hit and miss.

Hope everyone in GJ land is doing well.

 

[scooterbum46]

Do you have a thread or part of this thread that covers the heating system you've built?

 

[86turbodsl]

It's interspersed in the thread. Nothing focusing on it. I could probably expound on it.

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[86turbodsl]

After Christmas dinner went out to the shop and played around some more. Have the tank heating up automatically now but the rtd reads temp 20f too high. The transmitter is a cheapo Chinese and probably is just not very good. But at least it's warmed up.

Super nice outside. 55f or better.

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[Strouty]

Got to love the cheap electronics. Hopefully you can get it all ironed out before next year.

 

[86turbodsl]

That is very rapidly approaching lol.

Made some headway today. Working on oil delivery. Having trouble finding tools in this mess. Grrr.

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[ClappedOutBport]

Got to love the cheap electronics. Hopefully you can get it all ironed out before next year.

That's quite the short time frame. Give him until next decade, at least.

 

[86turbodsl]

Ha! Next decade is what, 3 days?

Not much to show pic wise, i've finished the wiring from VFD to motor, piping from tank to motor and recirc into the tank for testing, and otherwise it's been slow progress, this programming stuff is not easy for me. Nor the plc wiring, however, i have been successful in getting the plc to control the vfd/oil pump speed, remotely, from trickle to firehose and turn flow of oil on and off. That's as far as i've gotten today. Next step is replicate that on the electronic air pressure regulator, once that's done, all the building blocks are in place and i can start programming control sequences for the boiler. Sometimes i think 3500 for a waste oil burner would be cheaper...

At least it's been warm, and i've been salvaging diesel fuel from one of my barrels for when it gets cold again. Should be enough for a few more days of cold weather. i've got another few days before i go back to work.

 

[86turbodsl]

Arrg. I have been working on air pressure control today. the regulator works as expected, but i can't seem to write different data to the channels. if i command something on oil speed, i get the same thing in air pressure. Tried several different things, but can't control them separate. there's a programming trick i'm missing. If/once i get it figured out, controls will be about done.

 

[86turbodsl]

FML.

I finally figured out the programming to write data to both output channels and correctly had air pressure independently controlled from oil flow. Working exactly as wanted. Saved the program to disk and backed everything up. Went to the house for a bit. Come back a while later and neither channel worked. Did every kind of troublshooting i can figure out. No output on either channel. Nothing working anymore. Best i can figure, the module died. Ordered another one from ebay. Never had one of these modules die ever. They're so robust its almost inconceivable, yet here we are. Ugh. This thing is going to kill me. I hate living in the north and needing this ****. If i was in the south, i'd have a heat pump and call it good. Or just sweat.

 

[Strouty]

Hopefully that new module will fix it, you have so much invested in this, can’t let it beat you. Once it is working, it will be free heat, we’ll heat you paid for in aggravating ways, but you won’t be buying heating oil. I am just learning about waste oil heaters, the new shop has one and I need to understand it, I also need to setup a large holding tank for the used oil, 55 gallon drums ****.

 

[86turbodsl]

I hope so. Today was a fail on all levels. Everything went bad. I've tried everything on that module six ways from sunday and nothing works. I'm at a loss. I hate spending more money on it. 3500 for a waste oil burner is starting to look good. Been going through this **** because i don't want to filter hundreds of gallons a year.
As far as your burner: preheat your oil and filter it well. Most commerical burners are pressure/siphon fed and need clean oil. I went down the other path. If i could get natural gas here, i'd do that and never look back.

 

[Strouty]

I have faith in you, hopefully it will just be that module. If you can’t get it going this winter, then we can talk about a commercial waste oil furnace.

Natural gas can get crazy expensive around here, heating oil has had the best track record as far as cost, unless you have a cheap source of wood. I don’t have the oil preheated, but it is inside the shop, so 50 degrees, should it be warmer? Also have no clue how they filter it, I want to setup a good filtering system. I have a 330 gallon tank waiting to get plumbed for waste oil, it is in an insulated box with a vent coming from the heated shop, I think it will need more heat, what I want to know is if I can get away with a draw tube heater, I have one on my outdoor heating oil tank and it has never frozen.

 

[86turbodsl]

Waste motor oil I preheat to at least 150f.
The commercial burners take care of that with a preheated block close to the nozzle.

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[86turbodsl]

While i wait for boiler stuff to show up and still on vacation, i took the opportunity to work on shaping up
the welding area. I moved the welding table to more permanentish location and put the syncrowave over in the final position. I still need to determine where the mig and plasma goes. But i like it so far. I *Love* having an air outlet right by the welding table.

It's also become super apparent i need to organize grinder supplies, welding supplies and c clamps.


I also took the time to put this hose reel up. I liked it so much i bought another for the house garage. I'll put it up and then run copper line through the attic and down into the basement and put the compressor downstairs eventually.


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[Strouty]

Looking good, be interested to see what you do for you clamps and stuff, mine are all wasting space in a drawer.

 

[86turbodsl]

Started off today by installing the new card in the PLC. That's working again. Then welded a flange on the exhaust for my kids truck. Once I get some more stuff off the floor I'll be bringing it back in to work on.

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[86turbodsl]

Then I figured out a rack for c clamps. I didn't have my car today so I found some old scrap to use. I wanted the c clamps to be able to come off at random or in any order without pulling a few to get to the one I wanted so that meant horizontal bar and perpendicular to pull off. It seems to work great.

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[Strouty]

But you have to bend over to get them, my back and I have a deal about that.

 

[86turbodsl]

Spent the evening working on the analog output on the PLC and it's not working again. Seems very fussy. I may have to rethink my strategy on this.

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[86turbodsl]

But you have to bend over to get them, my back and I have a deal about that.

Yeah, i don't like it that much either, but i have limited space to put them, and i thought i'll use the grinders more than clamps, so i wanted those above the clamps. The bigger question, is what do i put overhead of the welding table? Lot of wasted space up there. Don't think i can span the table with pallet racking and have room to work. It's a conundrum.

 

[macgyver37]

Put a smoke eater over it. Try and **** up the smoke and grinding dust if you can.

 

[83VillageRepair]

Your shop is really starting to shape up. It gives me hope that someday I will get get there. That is quite the welding bench!

W/

 

[86turbodsl]

Thank you, i can't complain much about the bench. The neighbor had brought it home from his work, it had a diamond plate 1/8" top on it, he was tired of walking around it. I brought it home, put a 1/2" top on it, and casters. 4x6' and does a great job on setups. It is a little big, but i can do all my work on it.

The smoke eater is a good idea. How much do they cost? Never seen one really.

 

[86turbodsl]

I have been asking on the automation direct customer forums about my problems and it seems like i might be doing some things wrong. I've never played with analog cards before. On the house i used an RTD card for temps and discrete outputs for everything else, so there was no scaling and whatnot to worry about. I really need to get out there tonight. Last night i made dinner and some donuts and that killed the night.

 

[Strouty]

You lost me at “I have been”

Hope things can be figured out, I want you to have heat.

 

[86turbodsl]

Yeah I tried again tonight and failed again. I'll get some more diesel tomorrow and warm up the shop and do something else. Oh well.

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[86turbodsl]

Ok, FINALLY, i have a resolution on the plc analog output card. My ladder logic was wrong and i can't properly read a manual. Ugh. Thanks to the Automation direct forums, at least it's working again. Now i will be able to control the oil flow and air flow remotely, to whatever schedule is optimum at the particular time. Now to complete the burner welding and build and get it installed. Probably right about spring...

 

[Growlertdi]

YAY!! congrats. I remember my PLC class at the community college way back before 1998 and how particular the ladder logic had to be. guess that's why I focused on physical design versus logic and programming design..

With this success you will have automated heat soon and it will be glorious.

 

[86turbodsl]

Thanks. The issue was really i skimmed the manual too fast and didn't read carefully enough. I was trying to use two different methods at the same time of sending the analog card output data. If i was more versed in PLC i would have caught it, but i'm a newb really.

You are very right though, if there's ANY ambiguity in ladder logic rungs it'll just sit there.

 

[86turbodsl]

We have a big storm coming in late tonight. Predicting up to a half inch of ice before the snow hits. I'm going to try and batten hatches tonight and program plc tomorrow before it gets real bad. If the power goes off (likely) i will be off line for a while except by phone probably.

 

[86turbodsl]

Ok, weekend storm over and it was essentially a dud. It rained all day saturday and just a little ice overnight into sunday. No big deal. I was able to get some work done out in the shop, essentially finish welding up the burner. I made a little modification of the burner tube as i realized i wouldn't be able to pull it back apart to clean if i welded it up as designed. So i made an adapter plate that bolts to the end by the burner, and that went well. I also determined that my tig welder is no longer controlling my current with the foot pedal. so i have to figure out whats going on there at some point.
Pictures of the burner as it sits now.


Tonight i hope to pickup some more of the drain plumbing, and once that's done, i think i have enough to get started with burner testing. Barring finding any other issues anyway. Tomorrow i have company over so i might be testing well into this week. It gets colder towards week's end, so timing will be good for testing.

Finish welded the tube to the flange mounts on the boiler.


The supplied air pipe goes over this assembly. Holes for air admittance are not yet drilled here.


Adapter bolts on the flange just welded on. The burner bolts on to this plate.

After all that welding, i drilled the air holes for forced air, and bolted to the boiler. Determined what i needed for drain plumbing and will pick that up tonight after work.

I also welded up the babbington ball mount and that should be ready to go tonight if i choose. Oil could run over the ball tonight.

I also need to figure out where to mount the transformer and electrodes, but i could theoretically use a propane torch to ignite tonight and see if i am even close to proper operation.

 

[Strouty]

Sounds exciting, don’t burn the place down! Sounds like having the PLC stuff figured out will make everything worth it.

 

[86turbodsl]

Yes, that was the plan. Full tunability. I think the optimum conditions will be different depending on the temp of the boiler and burner. At least that's what I've heard.

Slow start tonight. Got home late and been watching grand tour with the kids.

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[Pressingonward]

Looking good! Can't wait to see you get that burner up and running; it's a cool project.

I've been meaning to ask - for your big industrial welders, do you have any issues supplying enough amperage to run them? I've heard that some of those require a 200 amp dedicated circuit or something ridiculous like that. I know they'll draw a lot less at lower settings, but I'm curious how large of a circuit they really need to run them for home shop use.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

It probably won't trip unless you need it. Our 330A/BP calls for a 125A breaker, uses 104 at full load, we've got it on a 60. Got a 100 sitting by if we need it, but it's never tripped. It's only got an 6 or 8 gauge cord on it anyway. It does dim the lights when you turn it on, but otherwise it never seems like an issue.

 

[86turbodsl]

I have a 200A service in the shop, and nothing i run out here ever dims the lights at all, and all of the big welders are about the same. Needs about 100 at full tilt. I have em on a 60. No trips ever.
I think the syncro 300's are rated at 104a, and the 330a/bp is rated at 96a. All are power factor corrected and that drops the max load a bit.

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[Strouty]

Welders are weird, nothing follows code, especially wire sizes. I have a 200 amp service and my 10 HP single phase compressor will flutter the lights, inrush is something like 235 amps, so I guess it is to be expected. If it was bad, I would probably add a VFD for soft start.

 

[86turbodsl]

Made the drain line tonight. Works perfect although I have to start the pump at 75pct or less for about 30 secs to avoid filling the cavity before it starts draining fully. Viscosity changes with heat. Also have the air side mapped out. Pickup more fittings tomorrow.

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[matt_i]

Looking good! Are you using something like a PID loop with analog channel feedback (the RTD) or is it more digital on/off?

I have never messed with analog cards, every PLC project so far has been full on-off stuff.

So far this has been a very mild winter. Good one if you were framing a building or working outside. There's still time for us to get slapped back to average though