Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

[86turbodsl]

I thought about a pid loop for the temps, but really it's overkill. Most HVAC stuff is simple on off with a deadband. I did use a 50pct pwm for the heater though to avoid burning the oil as much.


Some more info on my plans:

The PLC will control the temp of the heating tank. There's 2 temps planned, one for motor oil, one for veg oil. I have two operators on the front panel, one for each. For operation, hit one and make sure that tank valve is open. There's an e-stop that stops the whole thing.

The plc analog card takes two values in memory, one for oil and one for air. The optimum values for oil flow and air pressure should change depending on the temp of both the burner tube and the boiler. When the burner is called, oil will flow for a bit to stabilize temps, then i'll energize the oil control, which will be a standard oil burner control. The output of that will be to the solenoid for the air and the ignition transformer. The fire eye will control all that so if flame out for whatever reason, it shuts off the air solenoid so no oil goes into the tube.

The plc will also control the pumps for the system, turning the boiler pump on and off depending on temps of the system. I want to minimize cold water return to the boiler to keep flue condensation down, so it'll be on/off until tank temp is above 140F and then full circulation.

The normal floor controller is still in the system to control floor temps reset to outdoor temp.

I will be setting up tuned operating points for oil and air so i can quickly call an operating point by just energizing a single contact. For instance, c10 would call cold startup mode, which might be 30pct oil flow, 30psi air. After a 2 minute soak, i'd energize contact c11 and it would set oil flow to 50pct and air to 20psi. These operating points would need to be determined before hand.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[86turbodsl]

One picture is worth 1000 words.



Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[Growlertdi]

Sure hope you are having some M'F'n Pancakes this morning!

Congratulations!

 

[86turbodsl]

Thank you. I still have a long road yet, but the concept was successful. Big relief.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[Strouty]

So there will be an igniter instead of the torch? Or do you still need to have a flame to ignite the atomized oil?

 

[86turbodsl]

I'm using a standard oil burner ignition. Not installed yet. Wanted to validate my burner and burner tube would work.

With the ignition point up by the ball, it burns awesome. Without it, the burner stays lit, but chuffs as the hotter end reignites the spray back up to the ball. Oil ignition will be perfect.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[86turbodsl]

Hold Grail achieved. Automatic ignition via 2 sole wires.

I'll post a vid later, but I'm beyond stoked. Beer thirty.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[scooterbum46]

Is the far end of the burner tube supposed to be glowing ?

 

[Strouty]

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Is the far end of the burner tube supposed to be glowing ?

That's how you know she's chooching real good. Is this for the house or shop 86? I joined in this thread too late.

I guess it is pretty cold up there right now. I've got the woodstove cranked and a few space heaters on down in Alabama. Lows of 20F. Nothing for you Northern guys, but most people around here have only heatpumps.

 

[scooterbum46]

"That's how you know she's chooching real good. "
LOL . I heated with wood for 31 years (Johnson 9900 in the basement). Before I went stainless on the smoke pipe, I had regular stovepipe from the furnace to the cement block chimney (about 4 feet on a diagonal and then a horizontal about 36"). About this time of year, had a good hot red oak fire stoked and I thought damped down, went to bed. Heard that freight train noise only a chimney fire can make, I'd left the ash door open to get the fire going before damping it down..... The smoke pipe was glowing from the back of the furnace up about the first 3 feet. That's choochin too! Replaced that pipe within a week - didn't trust it after being that hot..

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I've only been burning for 4 years, luckily I've never had any pipe fires. Definitely scary. Unfortunately my layout is pretty poor. I've got 4' of vertical, then about 10' horizontal, then about 20 feet vertical. The outside vertical is triple wall stainless, you can put you hand on it with a raging fire and it's ice cold. Really well insulated But I still have issues with the exhaust gas getting cold and creosote raining down into that corner elbow. I have to empty it about every two weeks of heavy burning or it chokes the flow right down. My Vermont Defiant has been a real reliable stove but it has no ash grate and I hate shutting it down and restarting to empty it. I've been meaning to make a mesh scoop for it for a while now, I should really get to doing that.

 

[86turbodsl]

I love that....

 

[86turbodsl]

That's how you know she's chooching real good. Is this for the house or shop 86? I joined in this thread too late.

I guess it is pretty cold up there right now. I've got the woodstove cranked and a few space heaters on down in Alabama. Lows of 20F. Nothing for you Northern guys, but most people around here have only heatpumps.

This is shop. Burning waste oil is technically illegal for homes although i know people do it, and i don't really care if they do. Where in 'Bama? We've got a plant there in Montgomery. I enjoy visiting.

 

[86turbodsl]

Is the far end of the burner tube supposed to be glowing ?

You should see the pipe sticking into the boiler...

Most of the waste oil burners i've seen get pretty hot. Thats' why it's 1/4 in wall steel. I do have a pipe that goes over that though and it provides cold outdoor air. I know there will be a replacement interval on the pipe, thats why i made everything modular. I can also increase the diameter of the pipe a little bit before i hit refractory on the boiler. After that i have to start carving refractory, which i really don't want to do.

For everyone's viewing pleasure:

 

[OldSoldier]

Cool video, congrats sir!

 

[Growlertdi]

Liked and commented, Does the spark have to be working to keep the flame going or will it self sustain after things heat up a few minutes?

 

[86turbodsl]

The spark is 100pct. It will chuff back and forth down the tube without.

All oil burners are 100pct spark.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[1Garageman]

Thanks for sharing the video! I subscribed to your youtube channel.

 

[jbmatth]

That is great to hear, I bet it feels great to be here after all of the struggles you've had with it.

JB

 

[macgyver37]

If you had waited another 2 months you wouldn't need it til next fall.... Ha

 

[86turbodsl]

Funny.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[86turbodsl]

Down for the count again. Just making it back to work today. Passed another gallstone. Never had two so close together before. I might have to look into doing something if this keeps up. Hope the shop is still warm, i probably ran out of diesel either overnight tues or wed morning. Haven't been out there since. Convalesced all day yesterday.

 

[Strouty]

Sorry to hear that, I understand the situation, so get better.

 

[shawnspeed]

Have you figured your welder out yet?? If not, take the pedal apart and re-connect one of the wires going to the rheostat....mine does the same thing occasionally... will start the arc, but no amp control..

 

[86turbodsl]

Not yet, i've been working on the heat pretty much exclusively, but the pedal was where i was going to start. It used to work, so i'm hoping it is something simple.

 

[86turbodsl]

Some news to report, and it's not good.

I ran the burner for about 5 minutes last night, looking to see if it would reach steady state conditions. I think it did about 4-5 minutes in. I checked stack temps at about 250F. All good. Then shut off the burner and went to work on the program. About 5 minutes after that, i noticed a smell in the room. Went to check on the boiler and noticed a lot of radiant heat off the stack. Checked with the IR gun and got temps over 700 in some spots and off the scale on upper sections. Noticed a couple of sparks floating around. Uh oh. Went outside and saw sparks coming out the chimney. Back inside, i setup a ladder quickly on the bathroom doorway to climb up and check stack pipe integrity as i noticed some discoloration on the pipe, and the ladder went out from under me. I fell about 3 ft down onto the concrete and landed on the edge of a 5 gallon bucket and either bruised or cracked a rib. It's not super painful so i think it's just bruised, but it was unnerving.

I checked on the stack temp after about an hour and it was cold, and opened all the boiler doors after the event and noted a LOT of soot built up on things.

Assessment:
The previous drip style burner ran combustion quite low temp. Lots of cold starts and lots of soot buildup. I'm over 1/4" and thick and curling off in most locations on the boiler. Because there was not automatic starting last year, every start was a cold start. So there would be lots of soot building up every time. And the new burner is VERY hot operating, so it was sufficient to ignite some soot. I thought it was interesting that it waited to take off after i shut off though. And there was not a freight train noise like wood chimney fires. So it's a different animal, but it definitely exists.

I found some literature online about oil chimneys needing to be cleaned yearly and that it usually didn't happen because not many people know about it. Clean your chimneys!!

So i didn't burn anything down, but at least i know to clean the boiler/chimney ASAP! And it will become part of my yearly routine along with cleaning out the heating tank.

Whew! Close call.

 

[Strouty]

Glad it didn’t get out of hand, that could have been worse for sure. Hope you just bruised the rib, either way it stinks, is it one of those times where just taking a deep breath hurts or only when you laugh? I know when I get back spasms, the ribs will get pulled out of whack and that hurts to breathe. If it only hurts to laugh we will have to post some funny stuff to test you. Get better and stop hurting yourself.

 

[86turbodsl]

It actually doesn't hurt much to breath. I think i must have just bruised it because its getting better so rapidly and doesn't hurt that bad. Good thing i was only up about 3 ft.

I think i need to be more diligent on this job and make sure i haven't overlooked anything while i work.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Dang 86, life is just beating you up right now, eh? Hopefully everything smooths out soon. I know winter is a tough time on equipment, people too apparently.

 

[Spareparts]

On the Volunteer FD I worked on for 15+ yrs we carried some Hiway Flares and a 1/2 sheet of plywood for fire place flue fires, toss one in the fireplace and cover with the plywood, it would snuff a fire quickly, ***** the oxygen ont of the air. Might work for the boiler if you have a way to get one in there .

 

[86turbodsl]

Dang 86, life is just beating you up right now, eh? Hopefully everything smooths out soon. I know winter is a tough time on equipment, people too apparently.

Lol. You'll need a bigger photo for all the stuff that's happened to me lately....

 

[86turbodsl]

On the Volunteer FD I worked on for 15+ yrs we carried some Hiway Flares and a 1/2 sheet of plywood for fire place flue fires, toss one in the fireplace and cover with the plywood, it would snuff a fire quickly, ***** the oxygen ont of the air. Might work for the boiler if you have a way to get one in there .

First step is clean the boiler and chimney. There's a boiler door i can throw stuff in. I will look into that. Thank you.

 

[86turbodsl]

Worked on cleaning boiler and chimney this weekend. Pulled out the smoke pipe and as expected found a lot of caked soot. Smoke pipe looks like it survived. Boiler has an insane amount of soot. Made a water filter for the shop vac. Taken a ton of sludge out. Looks like 1/2in of scum all over inside the boiler. Probably a yearly maintenance task now really.

Fighting the broken/bruised rib. It's gotten bad enough i am going to try to go to the chiropractor tomorrow. He'll know what to do. I know the doctor will just prescribe pain killers and rib injuries heal with time only.

 

[86turbodsl]

Working in the shop was not a good idea this Sunday. I believe i completed the fracture of the rib. Lots of crunchy noises and progressively more pain.
From discussion with my chiropractor, likely a contracostal cartilage break. I have a DR appt tomorrow morning to discuss options. All research i have done shows that cartilage takes a very long time to heal. Like 6 months. It is very likely i will not be working in the shop until spring at least. I am considering what options i have to avoid working on the heat for the rest of the year. Perhaps draining the boiler is prudent.

Whatever i do will probably be decided by the end of this week.

 

[Strouty]

Sorry to hear that, wish I was closer, you could boss me around a bit. Get better, protect the asset (you).

 

[rattle_snake]

Damn, that *****. Self banned from shop time to heal is a *****. hang in there.

 

[86turbodsl]

Thanks guys. I'll probably know more after the dr. Tomorrow at 815. I'm hobbling around work slowly now.

If i do end up in self-exile, i have plenty of deferred maintenance and reading to do indoors. My server has not been maintained for a couple of years and the pvr no longer works. I can do plenty of reading and planning from a chair without too much effort. I like to be quite a bit more active, so i'll have to dial down the calories unless i want to gain more weight. But the goal is really to get back to 100% before summer.

I have a new VMAX sitting in the garage that i REALLLY want to be riding this summer. Gotta be 100% to handle those arm-ripping ponies.

 

[1Garageman]

I hope your doctor gives you some good news this morning! I think we need some pictures and info of your new VMAX on here when you get a chance.
Good luck with the doctor!!

 

[86turbodsl]

Update after Dr. Visit:

Took xrays, got the analysis this morning,

"non-displaced, complete fracture of 8th rib"
"nothing we can do, limit your movements, don't lift anything heavy, don't hurt yourself further, get plenty of rest, here's your scripts for tylenol3 and muscle relaxers, it'll take a long time to heal, have a nice day"

Exactly as expected. I must have enough cartilage calcification at my age they could see it well enough. The xray tech agreed with me that cartilage is radio transparent but she could still see it.

So i am just taking it easy for a couple months while i mend. I've got plenty of studying to do and planning. And i can still go out and practice welding.

As for the VMAX. Mom gave all the kids a little inheritance money after dad passed and the dust settled. I paid off all debt except the house and reasoned that i am not getting any younger, and all my fun can't be projects, and if i don't do something turn key pretty soon, i'm going to be too old to ride by the time i get my **** together, so i played the market as best i could and bought this in late fall:

2006 Yamaha VMAX1200 About 16,000 miles.
Mark's pipes, stage 7 jet kit, braided stainless brake lines, new tires.
Needs nothing and runs perfect.

Dad and i didn't see eye to eye on a lot, but we both shared a love of cars and motorcycles, and this was my dream bike, from the time i saw it come out in 1985. They still made the same model up to 2007.
This one is a monster. Only way it could get better is more cubes.