Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

[ClappedOutBport]

Watch Wes Work on YouTube didn't have any luck with it for unsticking engines.

 

[bulletpruf]

It was suggested that evaporust would work to unstuck a seized engine, I may have to try this.

I dunno about that. My secret sauce for stuck engines is a proprietary blend of Kroil, Marvel Mystery Oil, acetone, ATF, and a dash of Tabasco...

 

[86turbodsl]

I saw that vid on YT but didn't watch it. The best thing I've seen is time and pressure. The old timer way on tractors was take off oil pan and put a crank throw on a block of wood with front end lifted. The weight would unstick it after a week or two.

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[Strouty]

I don't think that video was very controlled (nothing against Wes), I have used evaporust to free up adjustable wrenches that were rusted almost solid.

 

[86turbodsl]

Im super impressed with evaporust. I would believe it would unstick an engine.

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[86turbodsl]

Making progress.

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[Strouty]

Looking good

 

[86turbodsl]

Having to torch or drill every freaking fastener in the lift pads. To put the new rubber on. What a pain.

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[Strouty]

I think I had to do the same, my lift was a drive over floor plate model, the chains ram under the vehicle. Made for an awful time when you needed to roll something under the center of the vehicle.

 

[matt_i]

Great stuff going on out there!

I also love evaporust, it will go into the "pits" that would require a deep metal sanding to smooth it back out. Keep a 5 gallon pail around for various projects.

I had to unstick a tractor engine. It was "barn stuck" from sitting around ~30 years but was always under a roof. But stuck nonetheless.

I put the tractor in 5th road gear and jacked up a rear wheel.

Filled the cylinder with Kroil although I dont think that matters very much.

Every day I'd go out and gently rock the rear tire back and forth.

It worked and no major issues. About 3 weeks in the engine started turning. I pumped in some motor oil at that point.

Now if its been sitting in a field with an open vertical exhaust then this method probably won't work...

 

[slodat]

It’s crazy how useful the lift is. I use it for unloading, often. Big HF tool chest, 50 ton H frame press and now my 5000 pound lathe. Looking good!

 

[86turbodsl]

Thanks guys, I am just waiting on a mcmaster shipment to finish the electrical and lift pad fasteners. Tonight I'm working in the house.

Slodat, good to see your lathe finding it's new home, can't wait to see some chips!

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[86turbodsl]

Got my shipment in, so hope to get something done tonight. I'm so ready to be done with the project.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Thanks guys, I am just waiting on a mcmaster shipment to finish the electrical and lift pad fasteners. Tonight I'm working in the house.

Slodat, good to see your lathe finding it's new home, can't wait to see some chips!

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My favorite part about mcmaster is how I get the final tally AFTER the shipment arrives!

but they have all the cool replacement parts so who am I to judge?

 

[86turbodsl]

Been busy getting shop cleared out to move things around. Moved the cherry pile over next to the fairlanes. Then had to repair the pallet jack. FroZen bearings. The kit from Amazon was wrong but I made it work. Then I moved the grob to the other end of the shop and started installing more pallet racking. The **** upright fell over twice and busted BOTH of my b7 audi consoles that were sitting on 55 gallon barrels next to the fairlanes. I don't have anywhere to put them because I have no more pallet racking left to put them. I have avoided putting more up on north wall because it needs paint. Mad enough to spit nails right now. Grrrr.

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[Strouty]

I hate it when stuff like that happens.

 

[86turbodsl]

So do I. [emoji19]

Tonight I finished installing the pallet rack and cut stringers. Now to get it decked and finished off.

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[86turbodsl]

Making progress. Got 2 sheets down and center structure cut out.

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[86turbodsl]

Whole mezzanine decked. Finishing off underneath tomorrow. Should be a surprise to most.

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[OldSoldier]

Any progress to update us?

 

[Spareparts]

I was wandering the same thing, he is on here on a regular basis, maybe he had to go into work and straighten up a mess. we worry about you!!!!!

 

[racer-john]

I think one of his shelves fell and knocked him out. Hopefully NOT.

 

[86turbodsl]

Near zero progress. Haven't felt like working on it. Work thrown me for a loop. I can update more in a couple weeks when I know what's going on.

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[Strouty]

Loops are no fun, good luck...

 

[86turbodsl]

Thought i should share an update with what's been going on. I haven't really been feeling like working on the shop for a couple of reasons. Been in a funk for a couple of weeks due to a phone call i got late one afternoon from my boss. Some of you either know or might have figured out that being an engineer and living in Michigan, there's a pretty good chance i'm involved with the automotive industry. I have spent the last 25 years working in powertrain development, generally in advanced R&D for internal combustion engines. I'm sure a lot of you are aware of the MASSIVE push globally to move to electric vehicles. And while i think it's a little premature with the current state of battery technology, i don't want to get into too much of a political or philosophical discussion on this at least in public. You can privately MSG me if you want to discuss.

I don't hold the reins though, so i do what i am told. DUE to all of this disruptive technology, a VERY large portion of the OEMs and suppliers have quit working on ICE development altogether or are severely curtailing it. So back to the phone call. I was told that the group i work in for the last 15 years is going to be shutting down. As a result, until yesterday i didn't know what my future employment situation was going to be. So i was in a funk / depression about what i was going to do for a career / income because if my profession is going away, how do i eat/provide? So with the most recent information it seems we have a short reprieve.
Long story short, i am going to be working on a career direction change, as i have decided i don't want to fight thousands of other brilliant people for table scraps as we all find ourselves out of a job. I'm too young to retire and don't have that kind of funds saved, so that's not an option.
I've long had a rolling 5 year plan to start a business and work for myself, and it seems my hand will be forced this time. So i have a basic plan of what i want to do, and i am educating myself to begin transitioning into this new career. I don't think i am going to be let go for the foreseeable future, but if i do stay employed with the same company long term, my role would be changing quite a bit and in a direction i don't know i like. So with all that said, my time spent on here might be quite variable until things settle down, and i likely will have much less free time as i get my business off the ground.
At the same time, i am trying to refinance my house to a lower monthly rate to give me more flexibility if the worst happens.

Like most things in life, there are no guarantees, you have to make the most of each moment. I like to learn, so there will be lots of that to do in the future. I'm pretty certain the future includes shop time though. Many of the business ideas i have circle around shop work. Figuring out what people want to pay for is the tough part. I have lots of ideas at least.

Thanks for listening.

 

[jbmatth]

86, sorry to hear about the news you received but at least you have some good options for the time being while you get your business underway. I'm sort of on the other end of the same problem as I work in the oil refining side. COVID hit us hard but we are slowly gaining steam and making strides to be profitable again. I do know my career is only going to last so long though, but at this point that timeframe is uncertain.

With all of the announcements for battery powered cars it brings up far too many questions to believe we as a country can pull this off given the current electrical infrastructure. If I do make a major career change in the distant future it would be toward electric production or distribution as that is one sector that can not be outsourced to an extent.

Either way you go I wish you the best in life and look forward to where you go in the future.

JB

 

[rattle_snake]

Stay positive. Attitude is everything. It is likely you will look back on this time from a better place. It can be quite a burden to think about the financial side of things and the unknown.
Given your capabilities and adaptability shown in this thread, I think you can transition and strive in a new role. Good luck.

Perhaps some quality shop time can get your mind off other things. I understand most projects consume cash, but not all.

 

[Strouty]

With your skills it could end up being the greatest phone call you ever got. There are plenty of pitfalls, but they can't outsource manual labor, especially skilled labor. You are smart to do the refi before you leave, it would take a while before the bank will talk with you about a loan as a fresh business owner. Rates are really low too, so that could make it a win win situation. I would suggest a couple things since you are currently gainfully employed, if you don't have a line of credit, get one, you don't need to use it, but in a start up situation you may need it to bridge any gaps. Also eat lots of kale and play old Nintendo games, that should help a lot too......

 

[86turbodsl]

Lol. I have a 15K line of credit. Not that i want to use it that bad. Plan is get business running while employed.

My biggest questions revolve around the business end. Get an LLC, taxes, etc. I can make a lot of stuff, but what does anyone pay for is the big question. I think i value my labor too low also. But in this area, everyone is dirt poor and nothing sells high.

 

[86turbodsl]

86, sorry to hear about the news you received but at least you have some good options for the time being while you get your business underway. I'm sort of on the other end of the same problem as I work in the oil refining side. COVID hit us hard but we are slowly gaining steam and making strides to be profitable again. I do know my career is only going to last so long though, but at this point that timeframe is uncertain.

With all of the announcements for battery powered cars it brings up far too many questions to believe we as a country can pull this off given the current electrical infrastructure. If I do make a major career change in the distant future it would be toward electric production or distribution as that is one sector that can not be outsourced to an extent.

Either way you go I wish you the best in life and look forward to where you go in the future.

JB

JB, i think we'll have need for petrochemicals for a good long while yet. Administration notwithstanding, you can't change the laws of physics.

As far as the electric grid goes, my college internship was at a power company. i wrote work orders to upgrade infrastructure and saw a lot of the grid in this state. What we are really lacking is power generation. We're going into a really rough time, where most generation fuels have been outlawed, nuclear is highly discouraged, renewables are shaky at best, and petroleum energy BTU's are being displaced to the electric side. This is a GIANT bowl of not good that TPTB are either oblivious to, or worse, and will plunge this country into chaos. I suspect rolling blackouts will become the norm at some point in the future.
Statistics show we consume about 20 Million barrels of oil a day. That's a LOT of energy to suddenly pull out of the grid. How many Megawatts of generation need to be added? A whole lot. I haven't worked out the numbers yet, but my gut tells me its untenable. Then you have the issues with EV's. Not a problem if you live in the city and just drive a short distance. Out on the open road, in bad weather, you get into trouble fast. People that i talk to that live out where i do, are just not interested in EV's. And yet the gov is going to shove everyone into one regardless?

I need to stop here, i'm going to get upset.

 

[Strouty]

I bet that there is a local small business association in your area, they usually offer free sit downs with a lawyer and a lot of times they will file your LLC for cost. I would look into that before anything else. Insurance will vary depending on what you do as well, my consulting company pays only $700 a year, but when I was doing actual work I paid more like $4k, then they audit you and base things off your income (exposure rate).

As for undervaluing your labor, that is very common, heck, I still do it. You try things and figure it out. I started out doing everything by the hour with customers providing materials. After that I worked for time and materials, then I went to pricing jobs based on contracts. I rarely do anything by the hour now, it usually works out better to just have an agreed price and go from there. You will have to come up with some fair number, if you are in a depressed area, maybe start out at $55 an hour and see what happens, of course this depends on what you are doing, might be $75 is more reasonable. It really depends on your operating costs and what you feel is fair. Nothing says you have to charge the advertised rate if you were learning as you go, customers appreciate that and if they don’t, you don’t want them as a customer. I charge between $90 and $125 depending on what I do, but most times we have a set price. Of course I have a cheaper family rate for things, that is what screws me over most of the time.

 

[racer-john]

86 Wishing you the best of luck i whatever endeavour you tackle. I personaly consider EV's a dead issue.
A C.E.T. to you engineers.

 

[macgyver37]

I feel for you. I got married in Sept of '11. Had a gravy train job with biscuit wheels. Good money, great benefits. Nov '11 was told I had 60 days to wrap it up, they were done. In my area I figured the best bet was to open my own shop. Not a great outlook to working for someone else here, especially without driving a great distance.

I had very little savings but had very little debt. I had spent alot over the years buying machines and tools like you have. I was just missing the real big stuff. I ended up getting a loan for my cnc and that has been my only loan so far. I am on my own, no desire to hire anyone, so I know I am stuck with whatever I can do on my own. Will see if that holds true in the future.

A few things I can think of that I feel may be worth considering based on the little bit I have gleaned from your threads on here and things I could have done better;
- If you plan to use your shop to make money, you really need to consider minimizing your personal projects and be very honest about whether you have them because you want them or because you need them to make or save you real money. My shop is still 70% full of personal stuff that is not making any money and in reality costs me money because I have to work around it. I haven't been brutal about making the decision to grow up and get rid of stuff and it has cost me.

- I know you like and prefer owwm/omwm as I do. If you need to make money, you need to take some of that emotion out of the situation and get what will make you the most money. Also, don't constantly upgrade things. Example, I had a perfectly fine Delta 12/14 in place and running and usable. I spotted a Greenlee 495. Figured I'd 'upgrade' and swap. It has been at least 3 years now and the Greenlee has yet to cut a board. I was overly optimistic and hit a speedbump on it and got stopped. If you have a working system in place, don't go all engineer on it and mess with a working system unless you have to.

- As Strouty said, get your ducks in a row with future financial concerns in mind. Sounds obvious, but you need to think about it with a business owner perspective now vs employee perspective. If there are any big ticket items you decide you need, get them while employed. If you need expensive software or computer, do it now, same for machinery. Looking back, I could have bought my cnc outright while employed if it had been a priority.

- Think of physical requirements/limitations. If you are considering using manual machines to make parts, how long can you physically do it? Can you stand at the pacemaker for 8 hours making parts and be able to work the next day? I can't really anymore, part of why my cnc router is my main focus. If I can get the material on the table I can babysit. Makes late nights possible if needed. If I had to shove the material into a saw or shaper all day, I am confident I would hurt myself when I was tired.
Along these lines, get a forklift soon. Get jib cranes, do it sooner than later.. (assuming you do end up working in your shop)

- Don't be too quick to use the LOC or get a loan. I got the loan on my cnc as I thought it was the best thing to do. It turned out fine but it had associated costs that I wasn't prepared for. I did a dumb thing and used my building as collateral for the loan as I was unemployed and again thought that was my best option. Well, the bank I got the loan from is literally next door. So I had my next door neighbor holding the note on my property... They got a letter from the county if I was late on my taxes and then they would send me a nagging letter too. It also required insurance same as a car or home with a mortgage. It forced a few things that I would have liked to have had the option to decide otherwise. Nothing bad, but it added to the stress every month that I am glad to be done with. Paid that loan off last Feb. Very glad for the timing of that.

- Read The E Myth Revisited. It is a very good book. It runs through the technician/owner operator starting a business and the things to work on to keep from getting burned out and quitting.

- Read this thread: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/member-and-shop-photos/b-precision-260814/
It is long and will take awhile but is full of good discussion. Even if you aren't going to end up with a machine/fab shop, reading Bills thread and also every 'I want to start a shop' thread in the owners and managers section will put things on your radar that you had not thought about. Based on reading these one of the things I decided at the beginning was to figure out my policy on payment terms etc. You need to have an idea as to how you will handle customers in that regard. I tell my customers it is payment at pickup and they buy material. If it goes well, we can discuss net 30. I know some industries that just won't work. That is fine, just figure out how you will handle cash flow for yourself and what you are OK with. Make sure that they know these types of things up front, don't let them or you get surprised. You have to manage expectations. If you both are on the same page, it doesn't matter which page that is.

- Look at other industries for different perspectives and possible problem solving opportunities. I fall right in the middle of metal machine shops and commercial woodworking shops. I use that to my advantage. I sometimes use wood tools or procedures to do metalworking and vice versa. Some people get stuck in one industry and are totally oblivious to others.

- Get to know sales guys for vendors in the area. Starting out, most of my work came from my plastics suppliers recommendation. They had an outside sales guy that would take me along on sales trips pretty often. He got the material sale, I got the mfg sale, the customer got what they wanted. He knew everyone. I didn't realize how few businesses I knew in the area until I traveled with him. I got to know sign shops, poultry plants, trailer mfg, an automation shop etc.

Slightly OT, an idea that might make sense is to start delivering/shipping stuff. For almost a year now I have heard nothing but how all the carriers **** and are over loaded and damage everything. Maybe you could start a regional shipping co?

Jason

 

[ttpete]

JB, i think we'll have need for petrochemicals for a good long while yet. Administration notwithstanding, you can't change the laws of physics.

As far as the electric grid goes, my college internship was at a power company. i wrote work orders to upgrade infrastructure and saw a lot of the grid in this state. What we are really lacking is power generation. We're going into a really rough time, where most generation fuels have been outlawed, nuclear is highly discouraged, renewables are shaky at best, and petroleum energy BTU's are being displaced to the electric side. This is a GIANT bowl of not good that TPTB are either oblivious to, or worse, and will plunge this country into chaos. I suspect rolling blackouts will become the norm at some point in the future.
Statistics show we consume about 20 Million barrels of oil a day. That's a LOT of energy to suddenly pull out of the grid. How many Megawatts of generation need to be added? A whole lot. I haven't worked out the numbers yet, but my gut tells me its untenable. Then you have the issues with EV's. Not a problem if you live in the city and just drive a short distance. Out on the open road, in bad weather, you get into trouble fast. People that i talk to that live out where i do, are just not interested in EV's. And yet the gov is going to shove everyone into one regardless?

I need to stop here, i'm going to get upset.

What annoys me are claims from all and sundry about the driving range of an EV. They'll say for instance maybe 150 miles but never say AT WHAT SPEED that is. Air resistance varies as the square of the speed. It's a big factor and they're using it to lie about driving range by not specifying it. If at 1 mph the air resistance is 1 lb, the air resistance at 75 mph is 5625 lbs. If you put a shunt in the motor cable and measure the amps drawn from the battery you'll be surprised how quickly they increase as the speed increases. The old electric vehicles of the last century actually had voltmeters and ammeters on their instrument panels to keep track of that.

 

[86turbodsl]

What annoys me are claims from all and sundry about the driving range of an EV. They'll say for instance maybe 150 miles but never say AT WHAT SPEED that is. Air resistance varies as the square of the speed. It's a big factor and they're using it to lie about driving range by not specifying it. If at 1 mph the air resistance is 1 lb, the air resistance at 75 mph is 5625 lbs. If you put a shunt in the motor cable and measure the amps drawn from the battery you'll be surprised how quickly they increase as the speed increases. The old electric vehicles of the last century actually had voltmeters and ammeters on their instrument panels to keep track of that.

You are absolutely correct. The other part i think nobody is thinking about, is the traffic jams. Ok, you get regen braking on the slowdown. Then you sit there running the heater or the A/C unless swing season. Your range gage just starts dropping. Pretty soon you're either freezing or overheating because the gage starts telling you to get off at this exit because you will barely make it to the next charger. Then you get to sit there for 40 mins and recharge. And if you fast charge all the time, you take charge cycles off the battery. Maybe 800-1000 charge cycles on a Lithium battery. How often do you replace your phone battery? I know everybody just throws their phones away these days, but i buy phones with replaceable batteries. It lasts about 2 yrs. then throw out and get a new one.
Where do all those batteries go? Landfill.
Now, they're all talking about pickup trucks and class 8 trucks. Pickups might work if you never tow. I tow. Class 8s, 40tons load, no battery will work. Ok, fuel cells are discussed. Did you know a fuel cell engine only lasts about 120K miles? And a truck is supposed to run about a million miles in it's life? About 80% of the cost of the fuel cell truck is the fuel cell. It's non-repairable. So you're supposed to repower your truck every 120K? REALLY??? All those costs will be passed on to the customer. Bet on it.

I've felt like a crash test dummy heading straight at the wall for a few years now... i want off the ride...

 

[86turbodsl]

Thank you Strouty and Jason, i will check all those resources out very carefully.
I've got a lot of work to do before i launch anything.

 

[86turbodsl]

86 wishing you the best of luck i whatever endeavour you tackle. I personaly consider ev's a dead issue.
A c.e.t. To you engineers.

cet?

 

[Duker]

.....Maybe you could start a regional shipping co?



Jason

Trucking is a good business.

I just helped a client complete the valuation and sale of his 4th trucking company in 12 years. He has a non-compete for 1 year and will start over again.

Two of the fastest growing segments are logistics/supply chain management and Regulatory compliance. Not sure that helps in anyway!

However, I see good and bad business everyday and the one piece of advice I can offer is that the most common cause of business failure is lack of cash flow. I have seen phenomenal business fail because they don’t have a plan to get them through the inevitable cash crunch.

Good luck on the new venture!


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[loganb]

Trucking is a good business.

However, I see good and bad business everyday and the one piece of advice I can offer is that the most common cause of business failure is lack of cash flow. I have seen phenomenal business fail because they don’t have a plan to get them through the inevitable cash crunch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This is excellent advice

Ever been to a craft distillery where they wax poetically and get misty eyed talking about their whiskey...but the first thing you see on the tour and in the store when you walk out is vodka? It's not because they wanted to make vodka(exception is of course Russian and Eastern European owned ventures)...but it's because their banker required it. You're turning raw goods into cash in the bank in under 30 days with vodka...and it can be darn good vodka! Ever bragged to your buddies about how good that 30 or 60 day old Whiskey is....yeah didn't think so.

Whiskey may be the attraction and the passion and why they got into the business, the vodka is what keeps the bankers at bay and allows them to stay in business. Figuring out what the item/service/product line that will cash flow your business is key to making it work. It may not be at as good of margins as your "goal" or primary line of work is...but 20% margins on a consistent base of business every month lets you stay in the black while you work on growing the success of the part of the business that generates the better margin

 

[racer-john]

Originally Posted by racer-john View Post

A C.E.T. to you engineers.

Certified Engineering Technologist, a grade just below an Engineer.