Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

[86turbodsl]

I already have repair parts coming. If nothing works out, i'll seek out another repair shop.

 

[86turbodsl]

Man, when that floor is running, it is soooo nice out in the shop. About 6 hrs run time today. Shop at about 55.

 

[racer-john]

I hope you 'engineer' a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

 

[86turbodsl]

Thank you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all!

 

[bimmer1980]

55 degrees in the shop sounds great!! That is what mine is set at.

What is the outside temp in Michigan in your area?

Happy holidays!

 

[86turbodsl]

Last couple of days it's been ~ 25F. Pretty chilly. I didn't even run the boiler from Tues night thru last night, the shop was still ~45 and boiler temp at 50F. Pretty efficient building. I think once the boiler is full auto, it will be pretty nice out there 24/7 and burn little oil. I might need to reduce my oil collection lol. I'm sitting on ~2000 gals minimum. Maybe more.

 

[Chrisb62]

Merry Christmas and have a joyous and Happy New Year.

 

[86turbodsl]

Thank you Chris! I wish you the same.

A boiler / shop update, since it's been a few days. Been working on the Namco, got the starter rebuilt, back on it, cranking over now, and i am working on the ignition. The flywheel is quite out of shape, so it's close to hitting the pickup in part of it's travel. I'm hoping i can arrange a close enough drive-by of the magnet while still avoiding the pickup. Jury still out on that one.

The boiler is working very well, with exception that it builds up ash so quickly i only get about 10 hrs burn time out of it before i have to clean the ash out of the tube so it keeps running well. I may put a timer on it so it just shuts down after a few hours and sends me an email to come clean.

I've been running the shop at 60F and that seems to be the sweet spot. I think it'll stay there. So the plan now is to get the shop cleaned up while nursing the boiler along and get started on the new boiler as soon as possible. I think the new design will solve a lot of these issues. The new design will incorporate the following:

1. Burner tube goes from 4" OD to 8.5" OD Way more room for ash buildup.
2. Burner tube is integral to water space, allowing for more heat transfer.
3. New design incorporates swing open doors each end to easily clean buildup.
4. New design allows much easier outside air delivery, allowing for higher burn rate.
I'm constrained to a low burn rate currently with my supplied air maxed out.
5. New boiler goes on the bathroom ceiling, allowing for more vertical drop for the preheat tank
and allowing for easier draining / servicing of tank and pump.

I know it'll be a lot of work, but i think the new features will make this thing trouble free finally. It's MUCH better than
last year for sure, but still not good enough for my taste yet. And i haven't even tried burning WVO yet. That's a whole nother
can of worms. I'll make it work on WMO first.

I also have redesigned the door closing mechanism, and will be assembling that shortly. But the namco needs done first. I need that for shop cleanup without killing myself.

I hope everyone had a great Christmas. More later!

 

[Strouty]

I know you can see the light now, having a small inside forklift is one of the best things I ever bought, right next to having a large rough terrain outside forklift and then there is the........

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I know you can see the light now, having a small inside forklift is one of the best things I ever bought, right next to having a large rough terrain outside forklift and then there is the........

the all terrain boom forklift. you never know when you'll need to reach up and OVER something big.

 

[Strouty]

That is my next purchase

 

[racer-john]

Don't you already have one??

 

[bimmer1980]

How'd the flywheel get so out of shape? Any further progress on the ignition?

We want to see this little beast fire up!!!

I'm glad you have some heat!!

 

[86turbodsl]

I am drawing the line at the over the top boom forklift. i can't see needing one. The rough terrain forklift however, is VERY VERY handy. I moved 2 hay bales yesterday from the machine shed to the horse barn. Wife was very happy..

the flywheel casting is out of shape. when it's bolted onto the crank snout, it's got a lot of +/- movement in the axis of rotation. Like it's out of shape. I would imagine it was cast that way. I'm not sure yet, but i'm hoping i can make the pickup trigger without crashing into the flywheel rim. I wish there was a way to show it, but video is probably the only way.

I was waiting on 3/16 wide terminals from mcmaster to run the 3800 GM coil i ordered. It's replacing the onan job. That onan coil used wierd coil wires that i don't want to try to replace or manage. those showed up an hour ago. We'll see how far i get. I need to make a coil bracket to hold it, and then wire up a test so i can verify operation. I'm onto dinner now, then out again after dinner.

I've also been making the uprights for the overhead guard for the namco. I had to cut and splice a bit to make a straight upright.

 

[macgyver37]

What's that chance you can machine the flywheel into closer shape insitu? Might be able to clamp a lathe tool onto the engine somehow while you crank with the starter. Guess is depends how far out it is and what you have for room.

Or can you bolt on a pickup to the flywheel so it takes the out of shape casting out of the picture?

 

[86turbodsl]

i don't think i want to try to machine this thing. I'd need to make a tapered mount for it to hang onto it. At that point i might as
well figure out a way to use the stock points. Probably should have done that anyway. Oh well.

 

[bimmer1980]

What's that chance you can machine the flywheel into closer shape insitu? Might be able to clamp a lathe tool onto the engine somehow while you crank with the starter. Guess is depends how far out it is and what you have for room.

Or can you bolt on a pickup to the flywheel so it takes the out of shape casting out of the picture?

Some good ideas here! I would probably be use a grinder instead of a lathe tooling, but the concept is the same. Remove the spark plugs and use the starter to spin it over. I wouldn't worry about a mount for the grinder. Just get it close in there and use light pressure. Maybe clamp some rough steel or wood for the grinder to rest on.

I the key here is you are not going for perfection, just to provide sufficient clearance for the crank pickup sensor.

 

[86turbodsl]

I'll tackle the flywheel in a bit. Working on the coil mount today, it's almost done.
It's a bit complicated because it's also got some oil switches integrated into it. At least the old one did.
i'm somewhat copying it but for the 3800 coil.

I cleaned the boiler this afternoon, the whole enchilada. It was quite dirty from a year of running dirty.
It's got the shop up to temp and then ran up to 140ish before i shut it off. I don't have automatic shutoff setup yet.
But it didn't really have to run long today to hit temps, so we've come quite a ways since earlier.

I'll post a photo once the mount is done and i make some more progress on the flywheel.

 

[86turbodsl]

Well that's just peachy. I wired the ignitor up wrong and let all the smoke out. Everything toast. UGH.

 

[Strouty]

I think I have the part number for the magic smoke, it is pretty labor intensive to get it back inside though.

 

[Strouty]

Nope, this stuff is for wiring harnesses, probably won't work for your application.

 

[86turbodsl]

haha. Combination of a bad day, a couple beers, and a really crappy wiring diagram from pertronix. They had it dumbed down so much i read the ground was on the ignitor wire. DUMB. Give me a real wiring diagram any day.

 

[86turbodsl]

I can at least show the coil mount.

The chosen coil is a 3800GM as it's super common and dual plug.
The crack in the coil and the oil drain line are new...

The oil drain should work well to keep from getting a greasy mess like i got it.

Since parts don't show up until next year, looks like it's an all manual clean up job this weekend.
Probably won't make much progress, but at least it'll be warm.

Happy New Year all!

 

[bimmer1980]

Too bad about the smoke out of the coil......

Happy cleaning! Here's hoping for some good progress!

I'm been doing random cleaning in my garage, and it does make a difference once it is cleaned. It's a struggle to get started, but it does make a difference for the future.

Happy New Year!

 

[86turbodsl]

Thanks, i'll keep chugging on it, even if it's not very productive...

 

[ClappedOutBport]

i don't think i want to try to machine this thing. I'd need to make a tapered mount for it to hang onto it. At that point i might as
well figure out a way to use the stock points. Probably should have done that anyway. Oh well.

I can help you out with the machining. You'll have to pay shipping both ways though.

 

[86turbodsl]

Thank you for the offer. i don't think that pickup is going to be as fussy as everybody thinks.

 

[Strouty]

Glad to hear that the heat is still functioning, keep picking at things, it will start to have the snow ball effect. For some reason that also works the opposite way and I seem to end up with a much larger ball. Happy New Year.

 

[86turbodsl]

I hate it when that happens. Happy new year.

 

[86turbodsl]

I'm cleaning and organizing today. Just putting tools away, gathering project items, etc. It's cathartic.

 

[racer-john]

Happy New Year, 86

 

[86turbodsl]

Happy new year Racer!

 

[Johanfpa]

I'm cleaning and organizing today. Just putting tools away, gathering project items, etc. It's cathartic.

I love doing this as well, great to put tools back in their places and organise for projects ahead. Enjoy reading about your setup and how you work your way through setbacks and use your engineering skills to solve issues faced. Have a healthy & great 2022!

 

[Strouty]

You got me inspired and I spent a bunch of time yesterday cleaning things up.

 

[86turbodsl]

Thanks guys. I'm keeping the cleaning up today. Also have a couple surprises coming on the Namco. We'll see how far i get. 1 more vaca day yet.

 

[86turbodsl]

Got the coil bracket back on, continuing to clean and organize. Have been staging projects as i find things. Just shut boiler down after a couple hours to clean. Ive got it down to about 2 or 3 mins but its still a pain to do. The floor oil barrel just got pumped up to the top, It was 100% full, now empty. That upper barrel is now about full. Means i've burned 55 gallons so far this year. At this rate, i'm good till i'm dead. Still 900 gals inside right now. It's 18F outside and going down to 10F tonight. Shop isn't even fully insulated ATM. The door is missing about 1/3 of the panels, and the back door top panel isn't up yet. I even have wind blowing through cracks in the north wall. Talk about efficient heat.

The base plates for the new boiler are cleaned up, the tubes are sitting close by ready to clean up. I'm short one small diameter tube. I'll have to find a supplier for thick DOM that doesn't want my firstborn.

I'm pretty happy with how the burner starts and runs, main problem is the ash buildup. I can't even see any smoke outside while running and i don't smell it anymore either, so my air supply is appropriate for this burn rate. I'd like to dial it up, but i won't do that until i have variable speed airflow to the burner. Since i only have 2 analog outputs on the PLC, and both are used at the moment, i'll have to figure out Modbus control of the VFD to free up an output.

 

[86turbodsl]

I decided to just cut one of the smaller boiler plate holes larger as i have more large tubes than i need. The eye watering price of DOM was enough to tilt me in that direction. I have a plasma after all...

I continued clean up tonight, fiddled with burner again, it gets so hot in that tube that the radiant heat ignites the oil sitting in the drip box under the doorknob. Radiant heat from the tube. The new boiler should eliminate that flaw, but in the meantime, i need to shut down and clean ash out and let cool for an hour or two every 4-5 hours or so. That will limit run time and upper temp in shop for a while. It's 10F outside right now, and under freezing for at least a week now.

Also got the new 3 phase motor mounted on the motor mount plate for the GROB bandsaw. I think i might invest in a VFD for that machine, because that one doesn't have the 5 sheave pulley that most of them did. Just 3. Maybe somebody took it off, dunno. 1HP vfd's dont cost that much i think.

It's nice getting little things done on forgotten projects as i uncover things. I REALLY need to get on some storage though.
I don't have places to put a lot of the things sitting on the floor.

Also, does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with water in the compressor tank when it's outside and the drain valve is frozen? I'm a little worried the pipe under the tank will split since the valve is at the end of about 12-15 inches of 1/4" pipe.
The compressor was Dad's, and i inherited it from him. He had it in a heated shop. I *LOVE* that it's outside and not in earshot, but am a little worried about water sitting in it.

 

[Strouty]

A VFD for anything 1 HP and under is really the way to go. Smaller motors can use a VFD on 120 and still output 240 3 phase.

 

[86turbodsl]

I snagged a 2hp vfd on the bay for reasonable money. If it will accept single phase input, i'm golden. If not, i will use it on the drill press. I'm a fan of VFD's for sure. Just don't like chineseium ones and/or the price on the larger ones.

The conversion ones have to be designed for that. I like Wolf Automation for those. Not willing to spend that on this bandsaw though. I think i had near 300 in a 1.5hp 120-2303P at work. That's close to what i paid for the bandsaw!

 

[86turbodsl]

I made a cleaning this morning and a slight tweak of the burner. I noticed that the spray was offset to the side a little bit. I guess i didn't drill the hole exactly centered. Since i used a dremel, that's possible. So i rotated the doorknob 90 degrees so the spray was slightly upward. My reasoning is that gravity will pull down on the aerosol and it'll be more or less centered as it burns down the tube. I just burned from 10am to 2pm, and see far less ash, and less blowback from ash buildup, and also the hot burner end that is visible from my camera has gone from lopsided to the north to centered all around the weld. Crazy that such a small change has such a big effect on operation. And i haven't even gotten to airflow and oil flow tweaks yet.

I do think that i am seeing mill scale on the inside and outside of the tubing though. My IR gun is off scale on the burner tube during operation. Glowing red is quite hot i believe. I wonder how long the tube lasts.