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Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.
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86turbodsl

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Amazingly, the carb kit was delivered today, along with all the other stuff i ordered. I had planned to get the engine in tonight, only thing i needed was some knockout plugs for the holes in the tin that had rotted away, the onan uses "vacuflow" for cooling, which is basically a big blower wheel on the crank surrounded by a bunch of tins that vacuum heat off the cylinder heads and blow it thru a hole in the chassis. You have to seal it all up or it reduces cooling. I could probably just taped them, but being somewhat **** and the fact that end of the engine can't be accessed with the engine in the machine and the engine weighs enough i can't lift it, i decided to go get plugs. So after work, wife and i jumped the car, and drove to town. Herein starts the adventure.

Lowes had none, drove down the street to Home Depot, as i got out of the car, a guy came up to me in the parking lot, and asked for a ride. I ask him where, looking him up and down a bit. He says UPSTATE NEW YORK. I said dude, that's nowhere near here, so he asks for a ride to the bus station, i said i don't even know where that is, and walked away. So he follows me into the store, then follows me down the aisles for about 15 minutes. I'm completely avoiding him, but he keeps following me. I even stop and talk to a store clerk asking for the knockout plugs, clerk said he knows where they are, i follow clerk to other end of store, stranger guy in tow. HD has none, so i said thanks i guess i am going to Menards. On the other end of town. Stranger guy follows me out to the parking lot, i go to wifes side of car, she rolls the window down, ask her where the bus station is. 1.8 miles away, downtown, and i have to go thru there to get to Menards. At this point something tells me to give him a ride, as it's something like 15F out, too cold for a bum walking around. He's got just a flannel shirt on. Nothing else. I actually had him pull his shirt up and patted him down. Can't be too careful with my missus there. And i am not CCW yet. I SHOULD be, but another long story.

So i tell him to get in the front seat, missus in the back, that way if he tries anything, she's safer and i'm far more brutal than her. You never know. So we drive downtown and past the Greyhound station. It's closed and locked. He suggested coming home with us. Eh, nah. Wrong direction from NY. So i suggest the train station. Trains are cheap too. On the way over there, he's spouting off gibberish about being abducted, phone stolen, being yelled at by his ride, all kinds of strangeness. We stopped at the train station, there's lights on and people there, so i tell him end of the ride, good luck. He smelled strongly of smoke too. I don't know what's going on there, but i don't think he's all there. Hope he gets home, but that's like a 650 mile trip. And he said he has no money, but didn't panhandle me. Who knows. He actually shook our hands.

Next i get to Menards, shelves are pretty bare. They had the plugs, and we got out of there and grabbed a bite to eat, then barrelled home, where i fired up the kerosene heater, then the shop boiler, then take the carb and manifold off the engine, disassemble the carb, throw it in the Berryman can overnight, clean up the manifold and inspect a few things that showed up, then called it a night. 5F is the forecast overnight. Stay warm folks.
 
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86turbodsl

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Thanks. Way outside my comfort zone, but even with the gibberish he was rattling off, he seemed like he wasn't going do do anything. But then again, i've been taken by panhandlers wearing suits, so maybe looks aren't the key.
 

bulletpruf

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Thanks. Way outside my comfort zone, but even with the gibberish he was rattling off, he seemed like he wasn't going do do anything. But then again, i've been taken by panhandlers wearing suits, so maybe looks aren't the key.

I'd be iffy doing it with the Long Haired General, but given the temps, it was the humane thing to do.
 

Strouty

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If the train station had been closed, I would have taken him to the police station.

Hope things are keeping warm, it is going to be cold this weekend, at least around here.
 
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86turbodsl

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If the train station had been closed, I would have taken him to the police station.

Hope things are keeping warm, it is going to be cold this weekend, at least around here.
Yeah it was, and we drove right past the sherriff station. That was my #3 choice.

It's about 22F out, getting cold tonight. This whole week really, dismal forecast. The boiler is needing cleaned a lot more, i'm starting to think that the air holes on the side of the boiler tube are clogged. it's acting quite a bit sootier. I know that i need more combustion air, i tried bumping up the doorknob pressure, but that throws more oil in too, i'd have to dial that down more and it's already pretty slow.

I have been thinking about the new boiler a lot, i came up with a way to automatically clean it too. Needs lathe work though, so that might be a later addition. The commercial guys seem to use a lot more combustion air than i do, and a much larger space to burn into. I can't go that big with my new design, but i will be something like 4X more volume at least. Should slow it down anyway, and my combustion air inlet is going to be a tangential hurricane.

In the meantime, the carb rebuild is about 1/2 done and should be done today and i'm hoping the engine goes back in this afternoon. At that point, it's mainly a wiring job.
 
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86turbodsl

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Got the engine all back together, working on the alternator mount and engine mounting in the machine. Had to take the oil burner all apart yesterday and clean it very thoroughly. It works a lot better again. I added holes for more air for combustion. That seems to have helped a lot. The metal was so hard a file wouldn't even touch it. Had to torch the new holes in.
Woke up to 3 inches of snow, and we've got another storm coming in tomorrow, so i'm trying to get more heat into the slab overnight. I'm at work tomorrow and won't be able to burn all day. It would be nice to be able to work in the shop tomorrow night.
 

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86turbodsl

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The alternator mount is sort of a pain in the ****, so it's slow going. I have to sort of re-engineer it. But getting closer. I think i have most everything i need for wiring and paint. We got a snow storm ongoing right now, so probably long drive home. Wheee.
 
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86turbodsl

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A nothingburger. Maybe an inch of powder.

I'm stuck at work for a few days, so no daytime burning which means i need to get heat into the slab every night after work, a tall order. It was -2F this morning.
 
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86turbodsl

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45F in the shop this eve. Lost 9F overnight at -2F so not too bad. I might get another 5F in the slab if i burn until bed.
I really need auto burn...
 
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86turbodsl

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Got it up to about 50F so far, i can leave it burning another half hour or so before bed, got some welding done on the Namco, engine fixed in place, spare hole in the dash welded shut. Last of harness parts showed up, looking at bushing the drive valve lever, it's got a lot of slop in it, and my OCD is kicking in with the lever flopping around so going to look at fixing that tomorrow. I'm still looking for an air cleaner for this thing, if anybody has a top mount air cleaner for an onan cck, i'm all ears!
 

racer-john

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Hope the weather holds for you, and you can finish the Namco.

You can add me to the 'bad disc crew', used to be 6'1" now lucky to reach 5'l0- 1/4", such is life coming up to 90.
 
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86turbodsl

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Racer, 90! Whoa! Good job getting into the new technology, Mom is 78 and doesn't use the computer too much. Dad would have been 80 this year and didn't use one very much at all.

I got the boiler up to 120F last night, and then shut down. Most nights when it's this cold out, i'm going to be lucky to hit 50F without running during the day. There's only so much time in the evening, and the slab is pretty big. At least it's not freezing in the shop, gotta look at the positives. Can't see my breath, so that's a good thing.

Was 12F at the house this morning. Cold weather runs thru the weekend. After that a little warmer.
 
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86turbodsl

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My OCD is kicking in again. The go valve on the Namco is twisted and feels weird. I took the top off the Gresen valve installed in it and can see it was machined incorrectly. I designed a new one, and will have to machine it later, since my bridgeport isn't running ATM. At least i have a fix. Sometimes i hate being OCD, but at least i can fix things that aren't right... or that's the theory anyway.
 

rattle_snake

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That's chilly. Froze at my place last night but shop was 70 inside. Don't run the heat but just parking a hot vehicle in shop once in a awhile is enough to maintain a comfy temp. And that nuclear ball up in the sky.
Summer is another story.
:cool:
 
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86turbodsl

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Man, i'd love to get the heck out of Michigan, but not sure Arizona would be the place. You guys got the nasty stuff out there. HOT, scorpions, snakes, etc.
 
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OldSoldier

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I couldn't handle 50 degrees in the shop. I wouldn't be able to move enough to stay warm for longer periods. Hopefully you can get that thing automatic soon.
 

bimmer1980

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Just curious, have you checked that your exhaust system for the boiler is actually flowing air the way that it should? This could be part of the reason for the poor burn and building up of soot. I.e. total length, bends, size, soot build up....

Maybe you could add an exhaust blower that would draw more air through your burner and push the soot and exhaust out. I.e. venturi style.. similar to a vacuum feed sand blaster, where the pressurized air is a leaf style blower and the burner is the sand port. Sized for the 4" or larger exhaust pipe, of course.

As with engine systems, doesn't make a lot of sense to super or turbo unless your exhaust is sized accordingly.
 
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86turbodsl

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That's a good point bimmer and strouty, i could probably stand to pull the chimney and look. I can see i need a cleaning this weekend, hopefully it won't be too long and drawn out. Old Soldier, when it's 5F outside, 50F feels pretty good. I can work without gloves, and that's enough for me. 60F would be better, but that and automatic won't come until the new boiler, and that won't come until the namco is moving. I need that thing both to move a 500lb boiler around and lift it onto the bathroom ceiling. Maybe this weekend.
 
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86turbodsl

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I pulled the boiler apart this morning and found a metric cr*p ton of soot in the insides. Clearly i am not burning it hot enough and long enough to keep soot production down. And i can't see that happening until the new boiler is done because i need frequent cleanings on the tiny burner tube. Soooo, i think i'm stuck with frequent (monthly?) cleanings of everything until a new setup is made. Got it all back together now and running to get it up over 50F. It was 41 this morning and -2F outside. I did not pull apart the chimney because of how big a PITA that is. It probably needs it though. Also affecting this is the fact that it's 900lbs of solid cast iron at 45F that gets cold fired daily and has no insulation on it. A double whammy.

Also pulled apart the oil pump and found more crusties inside. I could probably stand to redo the preheater tank with lessons learned and better crusty collection/oil pickup avoidance. That might happen after the boiler redo. I can use as is for now.

In other news, i'm trying to get the temp up enough to do some painting. We'll see if that happens or not.
 

ClappedOutBport

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Sounds like more work than a woodstove haha.

I'm following in your footsteps even more with a Clark C20b forklift. Engine is fine, but I've got all the other problems haha. I guess I should start my own shop thread sometime.
 
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86turbodsl

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Clapped, yes you should. I'd definitely subscribe.

The oil furnace's big advantage is probably i don't have to split firewood... And i can dial heat up or down. Woodstoves tend to be all in or nothing. I think it will get better with the new boiler. If not, i might see about something else. Who knows.
 
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86turbodsl

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Blar, the drain pipe on the burner clogged up again. :( It's been a substandard design since the get go. I'm picking up some fittings after work tomorrow and fixing it permanent. For right now, burner is off. Temps in the 40's tomorrow, so it's not a big deal.
 
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86turbodsl

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Left work early today, picked up copper and brass at Menards, got home in daylight and just finished putting tire chains on the tractor. Have 6 gals Kerosene, and 5 gals gasoline for tractor and gennie, and The car is full of gas. So i think we're probably ready for the storm. My employer already said don't come in and work from home if able. They're predicting almost 2ft for that area. I think we're more like 10 to 12 here. Enough to be annoying.
 

Strouty

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Hopefully you won't get too much snow. We are expecting some rain Thursday night, then more snow after that.

At least you will get some alone time with the burner.......
 
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86turbodsl

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Well, storm is over. We got about a foot. I cleared driveway once, you can't tell anymore. I will wait till it's a little brighter out and then go work on it again. Kid wanted to go to work for 6am. I just laughed.
 
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86turbodsl

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We got the driveway all cleared out this morning. Lots of work. It's been so cold the tractor wouldn't start without plugging it in. 2F this morning.

Been trying for days to get the shop up past 50F. It's been a no-go. The heat input required is exceeding the amount going out. I've seen some degradation on the burner tube, especially in the non-cooled area in the boiler burn chamber. It's thinned out quite a bit and will probably not survive the season. Also, i've noticed after an hour or two, the flames start to come back towards the doorknob. I think it's overheating and climbing up the stream. I think there might be something to the commercial burners which use a blower to push air past the nozzle. Right now all i have is ambient. I may try enclosing the burner head and directing some air from the outside blower into it. Until i can reduce that effect and maybe increase combustion air, i think it's probably going to stay manual and limit indoor temps to when i can burn/clean and restart. Right now i'm doing about 4-5 starts a day, and that's keeping the morning temps to about 43 and the end of night temps to ~49-50F. If i could set to run during the night without problems i could get to temp, but i'm not comfortable with an overnight burn when the flames climb out of the burner...
 
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86turbodsl

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I did some work on the door closure last night. Welded on some bearing plates so i can get more insulation panels back in place. Fired up the boiler remote this morning, ran for an hour, went out to the shop, found smoke everywhere. Can't find evidence of anything burning that shouldn't so i'm puzzled at why. Only thing i found was the barometric damper was jammed shut. Freed it up and it's working fine now. I got nuthin...
 

bimmer1980

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Interesting.... I'm not trying to be difficult here, but.....

I'm thinking an aftermarket burner assembly to insert into your boiler base would have some merits. Set up a settling tanks for larger debris, then filter thru an easy to change filter and into the burner. Just plan on checking filters and/or screens.

I get that the above would not be the babbitt burner, but I think it may give you a lot better chance of consistent and cleaner burns.

The hydronic side of things seem to be stable, it's the actual burner that continues to give you heartburn....

I know you think the planned new burner will solve your problems, but I'm a bit pessimistic....

I think we would all like to see you move past the issues of generating heat and on with some of your future projects...

Remember, we all reserve the right to get smarter... myself included.. :cool: 😂
 

bulletpruf

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I, for one, am not sure I want to see the burner issue get resolved. Then what would we have to look forward to???

It's kind of like Project Binky -- once it's finished, now what??? FYI - if you're not familiar with Project Binky, google it. Amusing guys in the UK with mad fab skills stuffed an AWD Celica drivetrain in a Mini.
 
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86turbodsl

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Ha, yeah once i get this thing solved, what am i going to do? Got plenty of irons in the fire. That's part of why i quit working on the heat once it warms up... i'm so sick of it. Anyway, i've kept my eyes open for used burners, they are pretty scarce around here. Also, i think a lot of the issues i'm seeing as really as a result of the short burner chamber. It's the most common style of boiler, and why i had issues with the old Weil-McLain boiler i scrapped. Waste oil takes longer to burn, so flame is longer, so you need a long burn chamber. There are boilers that have that that are fuel oil, similar to the Econoheat, but remember, we're not in the Northeast, oil is very uncommon here, and that means my options are pretty much NEW, used if i can find/afford the competition, and build. I'm not super keen on dumping ~5G into a system.
 
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86turbodsl

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Not a lot done tonight, but building on the painting i've done last couple days, here's where we are:

2 coats of New Holland Yellow on the Namco, installed all the new gauges, along with the original Namco hourmeter and the new starter switch, choke and horn button. I welded up the extra hole where somebody put a starter button since the new key switch is a starter switch also.

I think it looks pretty snazzy and provides the right foundation for the new wiring harness. Hope to start on that tomorrow.
 

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u3b3rg33k

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Ha, yeah once i get this thing solved, what am i going to do? Got plenty of irons in the fire. That's part of why i quit working on the heat once it warms up... i'm so sick of it. Anyway, i've kept my eyes open for used burners, they are pretty scarce around here. Also, i think a lot of the issues i'm seeing as really as a result of the short burner chamber. It's the most common style of boiler, and why i had issues with the old Weil-McLain boiler i scrapped. Waste oil takes longer to burn, so flame is longer, so you need a long burn chamber. There are boilers that have that that are fuel oil, similar to the Econoheat, but remember, we're not in the Northeast, oil is very uncommon here, and that means my options are pretty much NEW, used if i can find/afford the competition, and build. I'm not super keen on dumping ~5G into a system.
I don't remember what your assembled chamber looks like, but all the giant old home burners I've seen (3' long or so) have air swirl tips on them and a pretty decent fan. I assume it's kinda like engine combustion chamber swirl.
 
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