8x48 tile. Bad idea?

[Jbmotorsports]

So I found a tile I like for my garage. It's an 8x48 plank tile. Is this a bad idea for any reason. I don't know if it is or not but I will assume floor flatness is imperative. The tile installer said he like a bigger tile especially for my size room. I just don't know. Fwiw it's going on a 6" slab that's 6 months old so it has yet to Crack lol

 

[ace10]

Are you familiar with the quality of the installer's work and has he looked at your slab?

 

[Jbmotorsports]

I have only seen pictures and videos of his work, so no not really. But that would kind of be the same for anyone I would use as I'm not working off of any type of referral. He showed me a few pictures of some large storefront he was doing with the ditra mat when I had asked him if I should use a decoupling mat. I know that means absolutely jack in reality

He has not seen the slab, I was planning on patching/levelling any low spots myself before the job gets underway.

I'm not dead set on this tile format so if it's not a good idea then I'll just go back to a 6x24

 

[duneslider]

Nothing wrong with the format. I too like bigger tile but bigger tile IS more difficult to work with and requires more skill to install correctly. Yes, floor flatness is very important before starting. If the installer says it is not more work and it is not harder to install it would be a bit of a red flag for me, maybe he is really good and has done it a lot and just isn't concerned about it and has a level of confidence but having done tile for a long time you can't deny that bigger is more work and a bit harder to work with. For example, I think a 14x14 is kind of a sweet spot, not really harder than a 12x12 but easier than and 18x18. I can slam in 14x14 really fast. 8x48 is a big tile. I did some 24x48 in my house and they were a challenge, everything about them was hard.

I would for sure be charging more for that size tile.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

That's kinda what I figured. Even just handling the few I purchased was a pain. I wondered if maybe having to deal with less tiles in general, getting all lined up and grouting etc, would offset the increase in the difficulty of working with a large tile. He seemed a bit nonchalant about it and almost encouraged it. Hes a younger guy that has had his tile business for 7 years, i dont know where that lands you in that trade. I also don't know what to ask to test that knowledge

 

[duneslider]

If I were doing the job I would be using a tile leveling system (which adds cost) and I would be using a medium bed thinset or one that is labeled as being appropriate for large format tile. I also back butter everything, no matter what size it is. Smaller tile I can hold in one hand and back butter with the other, so I can stay in my place on my knees and work. This big I can't hold it in one hand to back butter, so that means I have to lay it upside down someplace to back butter. That alone is going to slow production way down.

7 years is quite a time and he could very well be fantastic. I also wouldn't be concerned with someone asking for tile that size, I can handle it, I'm just going to charge for it.

 

[stripedbass]

I installed a large format tile for the first time last year in a bathroom remodel. The same 8X36 tile was installed on the floor and shower area, I found it harder to work with and took me longer than working with small tile. The back buttering is critical. I also stayed with an overlap of 1/3. With the amount of bow in the tile an overlap of 1/2 would have made the job harder and increased the potential for lippage. My understanding is that the drying process during tile manufacturing can result in large tile having a curve.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Yeah he mentioned the levelling system. I almost even wrote in my response that you could hold a smaller tile to backbutter in one hand and this size I guess you lay it down. Let's do a what if here. So say he lays all these tiles and I have issues in spots that maybe werent levelled perfectly etc, what's the worst case scenario here? Would it be to remove the broken tile and properly set a new one in or would it be a much bigger deal?

Is there any specific things I should ask him to verify where his head is at? I'll say this, tiling is way more complex than I had imagined. I guess most trades usually are but I thought you just slap some tiles down and make sure they are level

 

[rlitman]

...what's the worst case scenario here?...

One possibility is that the tiles are severely cupped out of the factory. Lots of large format tiles (long ones like this especially) aren't as flat as you'd expect. They warp when fired, and you'll find that the offset joints may be impossible to get truly level because of this.

Are the tiles "rectified"? If not, they're likely not all that square either.

If you're ok with a wide grout joint to hide all this, then great. If you're looking to re-create a wood plank floor with a minimal grout joint, good luck to you.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Yes they are rectified, when I had them laid out looking at them at the store they seemed pretty damn flat, I realize that's not scientific, should I put a straightedge on them?

 

[jar944]

Large format tile requires a flat plane within 1/8 over 10'. I've never been in a garage or basement that could meet that without significant additional work. Lippage systems help if ypu start laying with a flat floor if you don't start flat, nothing will help.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Ok, I guess the right thing to do first is see where my floor is at flatness wise. Can I just put my laser level in the middle of the room and measure all around or is a straightedge required? I also have a 6 foot level but it seems like 10' is the standard measurement distance.

Follow up, wouldn't slight flatness variations be accounted for with the thinset? I understand it's not to be used in that way but to what extent is it acceptable (I'm gonna go ahead and assume the answer to that is 1/8 over 10')

 

[duneslider]

1/8" over 10' is the standard. Also, some lows are easier to deal with than highs. It is normal to see the concrete rise up at joints and around the perimeter and those are very hard to deal with, I would usually grind those down. Some low spots don't worry me as much as I can spot fill before starting, or add extra during install. The closer to flat you start the better.

Laser level will work to give you an idea of what you are looking at but degree of accuracy may not be that great without high end lasers.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

So what's the best tool to measure it? I assume a straightedge of some kind, but I can only imagine what an accurate 10' edge would cost. I know this isn't machining but still

 

[duneslider]

Most likely you can get close enough with your laser to know what is going on. I would focus most on edges and joints. Even a regular 4' level can give you an idea of what things look like. My garage isn't horrible but I know it bumps up at the joints 3/16 or more. I would def grind them down if I were to tile my garage.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Ok sounds good. I have a 6' level and my neighbor is gonna let me borrow his 8' level. My slab doesn't have control joints, I asked them why they didn't once it was done and he said it won't crack because of all the mesh and rebar and the thickness. Yeah ok bud, so yeah, no joints.

ill see how the laser level plus 6' level work out for me tonight

 

[duneslider]

You may be pretty flat then, I would check the edges really good. I know I have some corners that are high in my garage.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Yeah it is definelty high in the corners and I've been thinking of a way to get at them. I have a grinding cup wheel but that can only get so close to the corner

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Was just using my level in a few spots just to get an idea of how this is done, I have some slight dips, say 1 foot diameter 1/8" or so down, but how do you determine the highest spot? Like maybe that's easily dealt with but by the time you get to a different area maybe that's too high?

If the level rocks in a spot do you grind that down or bring up the surrounding area?

 

[jar944]

A 8' or 10' section of uni-strut will tell you everything

A laser only tells you level, you can be out of level but in plane. Your garage should have a slope to the door that will make a laser problematic.

 

[56Mark]

If you hose it down with plenty of water, you will likely see every low spot when it starts to dry leaving puddles. Also, not sure it was mentioned, are you going to use some kind of decoupling membrane or coating? I would. I am not a tile layer but have laid my share and am super picky. I did all of the tile work in my house we built 3 years ago and one of the tiles was a about 18 x 30. The big ones are definitely harder to lay. On a garage I probably wouldn't worry about an 1/8 here and there and let the tile flow with the contour a little, but with 48" tile that probably won't work. Post pictures when you get started.

 

[MongoTA]

"Yes they are rectified, when I had them laid out looking at them at the store they seemed pretty damn flat, I realize that's not scientific, should I put a straightedge on them?"

Rectified is good. With rectified, large sheets are fired and the tile is cut to size after it is fired. It results in a more uniform sized tile with less warpage. Generally, flat tiles. Still, take two tiles and set one on top of the other, glaze-to-glaze touching. I understand they're probably through-body porcelain, but you know what I mean.

See if they rock against one another. Do they touch in the middle and are they gapped at the ends? 48" tiles often have a bow to them, and that's why others were mentioning the offset limitations. Often times the manufacturer has an offset limitation in the material literature. Typically 25% to 33%.

Using a 50% offset (bad idea) with a large format that has a bit of bow to it could result in the lippage the others were talking about. Toe stubbers.

Even if the slab is in terrific shape, I'd recommend something like NobelSeal CIS between the slab and the tile.

Hope it turns out well!

 

[rlitman]

...Using a 50% offset (bad idea) with a large format that has a bit of bow to it could result in the lippage the others were talking about. Toe stubbers...

+1 to everything you said. You get it exactly and said it way better than I could. That 50% offset is the worst possible orientation, since it maximizes any height differences from bowing, and I've seen those exact results in bad jobs.

Plus, if you're doing a true wood plank look, a more random layout might look better anyway (just thinking here)

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Plus, if you're doing a true wood plank look, a more random layout might look better anyway (just thinking here)

I wish there was a way to truly randomize it. I suppose if you had a ridiculous excess of material and planned on wasting an equally ridiculous amount you could approach some small amount of perceived randomness. Which is really why I wanted the larger tile.

Just going around with my level and seeing the (relatively minor) issues, I wonder what the correct way to approach this is for me. Is that 1/8 in 10 in a 360 degree radius? I'm starting to feel like I'm either overthinking this OR this is way more work than is in the budget and had been anticipated.

Edit: does this become not as critical if I go back to a 6x24? I realize it's still important but from all the reading I've done it seems to become exponentially important as you get into large format tiles.

 

[rlitman]

I wish there was a way to truly randomize it. I suppose if you had a ridiculous excess of material and planned on wasting an equally ridiculous amount you could approach some small amount of perceived randomness...

Well, it's not entirely a tile friendly method (because you wouldn't be laying down entire rows at a time; though if you do this dry and pre-cut...), but you could lay it out like an LVP floor. Start at one wall and go across until you reach the other. Cut off the end and flip that around to start the next row. Keep this up, and it's pretty random, even though all the planks are the same length. If you get a 1:2:1:2 pattern appearing, just shorten one of those cutoffs a little. There's almost no waste at all.

 

[Jbmotorsports]

Oh that's how I did my vinyl planks. Pattern isn't a concern for me as the room will likely have a lot of things in it.

So after thinking about this I feel the right way to do this would be to self level the whole thing. Is that even really possible with a room this size all at once? Am I going overboard? It seems like doing that would be less work than patching the whole thing. BTW there is no slope in the garage the floor is level