9 month old American Standard/Trane 2 stage heat/ac hybrid imploding

[mrbill55]

So, had a new American Standard (Trane) split system (hybrid) gas heating/AC unit installed early this year. Over at the house this morning and as I pull up to the house, can hear noise from the backyard. Thinking the patio crew is running an air compressor before 8am, I decide to investigate. Turns out nobody is in the backyard, and the less than 10 month old compressor is making the racket. I've checked the computerized display inside, as well as in my app, it shows nothing wrong, but I can honestly say, I've never heard a compressor make such noise, not even the smaller (installed at same time) unit for the master bedroom, which I can barely hear running, even from the bedroom it backs up to. Attached is a quick video, I'm thinking bad bearing, or bad compressor, I've got a call in to the HVAC company who sold me the unit and did the install, I suspect they will be out some time today to investigate.

In the mean time, any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Bill S.

 

[mrbill55]

As a follow up, the technician comes out this am, starts inside at the thermostat, hhhmmm, this doesn't look right, talking about the lack of the first stage unit firing (gas unit below 45 degrees) instead of the 2nd stage constantly running. Simple fix, we will just reset the parameters in the system.........Ok, now the first stage fires up and the heat is pouring into the main part of the house.....Ok, I say, now what about the compressor, which clearly should not be making sounds like it is. Tech spends the next 1.5 hours pulling data, testing, checking, more tests, lots of pictures, a few videos, then buttons everything up and tells me he is going to report his findings of adverse noise coming from the unit. I get an email from my contact with the company about 30 minutes ago "I was waiting see the result from the appointment todays. I will address it and we will get back with you". My thoughts right now, it will be replaced, after all, both systems were installed on 3/11 of this year, if not, we will just have to take it from there. As usual, only time will tell.

Bill S.

 

[Jim greengo]

Is it a heat pump?

 

[bluedog225]

That’s quite a noise. Bet it drowns out the sound of those damn neighborhood kids.

I’m guessing a replacement is on the way. Glad they are taking it seriously.

 

[mrbill55]

Is it a heat pump?

Yes, this is the heat pump portion of the two stage system-4A6V8X48A1000A (4 ton), with coil 4TXCC007DS3HCB.
Stage one, the furnace is model# S9V2C080U5PSBD (80,000btu)


Bill S.

 

[American Locomotive]

In HVAC parlance, "stage" usually refers to the capacity levels of a sprcific unit. A "2-stage air conditioner" unit might have a 24,000 and 36,000 btu mode for example.

In your case, your system does not have fixed stages of heating or cooling. It has a variable speed compressor system. So it has "infinite" stages. This is just to clear up any confusion.

Your unit sounds fine to me honestly. It sounds about what a 4-ton scroll compressor spinning its brains out in heating mode should sound like. Trane/American Standard says your unit can run the compressor at much higher speeds in heating then it can in cooling mode.

At 4 tons, your unit is likely oversized for your home for cooling (especially if you have another smaller unit), so you probably only heard it running at relatively low speeds all summer. With your first real low temperatures of the year, the unit probably made its way up to max compressor speed to try and keep up.

According to the service manual, it looks like a tech can manually limit the compressor speed in heating mode to reduce noise ...and heating capacity. The unit is rated for a max of 77dba, which is pretty loud.

 

[fitter30]

Unit acts like its in cooling with the fan running at a slow speed to keep condensing pressure up. If it was in defrost fan shouldn't be running. Heating fan speed should be close if not full speed. Curious did the serviceman have a laptop?

 

[JunkBonds]

That sure makes a noise my heat pump doesn't make even at -18

 

[mrbill55]

Unit acts like its in cooling with the fan running at a slow speed to keep condensing pressure up. If it was in defrost fan shouldn't be running. Heating fan speed should be close if not full speed. Curious did the serviceman have a laptop?

Multimeter, laptop, and plethora of electronics, probes, gauges. Very well equipped.......I suspect they will want to swap the unit out, as they are supposed to be whisper quiet, and there is no coming back from that dying bearing/compressor. I further suspect without the video, I most likely would not have a leg to stand on. Again, only time will tell, but I have confidence in the company that installed it in March of this year.

Bill S.

 

[danski0224]

That doesn't sound right at all.

Would be curious to know what the gauge readings are. If the app shows "nothing wrong", it might be an inverter board issue.

If the compressor is self destructing, the issue will be debris in the refrigerant lineset and possibly the evaporator coil/metering device.

I would lock out the compressor and run on aux heat for now.

 

[mrbill55]

That doesn't sound right at all.

Would be curious to know what the gauge readings are. If the app shows "nothing wrong", it might be an inverter board issue.

If the compressor is self destructing, the issue will be debris in the refrigerant lineset and possibly the evaporator coil/metering device.

I would lock out the compressor and run on aux heat for now.

No need to lock out the compressor, at least not on my end, as the regular gas furnace is back to it's primary job, and that is to heat the house. Have been to the house several times (moving back in the next 7-9 days), also keeping track via the app, a few times a day, Compressor is no longer kicking in, with consistent "0%" readings vs the 48-89% readings we were getting before that on the app.

As for the compressor itself, the tech kicked it back on after it had been off for over an hour, while the sound was not as severe, it was also not whisper quiet like the one next to it which covers our master bedroom and bath. The tech put it in for review and suggests that since it is under warranty, they most likely will replace it. Again, I'm waiting the company to review his data and conclusions. I'll give it a few business days before calling back.

Bill S.

 

[bonneyman]

I've only heard noises like that from heat pumps that had a bad defrost control board. They have a termination temperature that switches back to heat from defrost, but if the control timer is bad the unit stays in defrost until the forced termination override time setting is reached. By then, the unit's been in defrost so long (could be 13 minutes on some models) that the comp is running with no cond fan and no ice to melt. Pressures get real high and the comp whines and rattles like crazy.