a/c for 1500 sq ft shop

[04chase]

Just finished my shop and its on the bigger side (30'x50'x14') I live in the middle of the desert ( inland empire of so cal) The last few weeks have been warmer than average . high 90s low 100's and first day of summer was 113 here. I havent been able to work in shop much because of it being so hot . Looking into an a/c for it . It is insulated and i do have 3x 60" ceiling fans im installing in the next week along with a hundred other projects im trying to finish. The first is a/c or something to cool it a bit more tolerable to be productive. I know for that size i need a real system. not a mini split but an actual 5 ton split system . I have plenty of power and even gas though i dont plan to run heat but if im going to install a system my as well since everything is there. I am confident i can install it myself and wire/charge and run all lines without issue. Just trying to debate what to go with , an older used r22 setup i can get for cheap , rehabilitate and only use when needed with a wifi thermostat. Or spend a bit more , possibly find a newer used 410 unit with a more efficient compressor . The indoor unit will go on a mezzanine i have in the shop in the upper corner with one large 20" duct running accross the 50' side with reduction couplers and vents every 8-10 feet. Not looking for a swamp cooler or anything that introduces humidity.


Just looking for opinions on what route to go , any others in a similar situation.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

The size and style of cooling unit depends on the cooling load. The load depends on the climate, insulation, infiltration, orientation, color and quality of roof materials, overhang, window quality and size, etc. etc.

An ACCA Manual 'J' load calculation would be in order. I use Wrightsoft for my designs.


Once you know the load you can determine the viable options.

My own 40 x 60 shop is cooled with a double-head mini-split. One for the office, one for the shop area.

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

I think 5 ton may be a bit overkill, but for pull down, perhaps not. Have you considered a package unit? Basically a rooftop unit set on the ground, often called "convertible" units? this would be less labor, but the initial cost is a bit more. It would be much faster, and you could (if you have an open space) add ductwork as time goes by. Just a different thought.

 

[James-W]

Your shop is about twice the size of mine. I am using a window air-conditioner and it is doing a very good job of keeping it nice and cool. You might want to try a window unit and just see how it works out for you, but with a shop that size you will no doubt need more than one unit.

 

[thymer]

I use a 5 ton for a 60x40x14 2x6 stick frame insulated and sheetrocked and it's not too much, keeps up about right but it's not 100 either. FYI I used a 60' long 18" air sock ($80 shipped) for distribution.

 

[thymer]

Pic of airsock

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

Pic of airsock

This, right here, is perfect.

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

I would love to know where you found them that cheap.

 

[thymer]

I would love to know where you found them that cheap.

so I just started calling folks, I think I got the owner and told him what I was trying to do. I guess he hooked me up. Did you try calling the manufacturer in the pic? Airmax

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

Just sent them an email, hopefully the "flash" of my @______.com will catch his eye. If not, I will call. One benefit of working for a manufacturer. LOL

Thanks, I was going to go Spiral, have a buddy who may have some, but this is uber easy.

 

[04chase]

This is it just packed full of more ****. So a metal building with insulation. Not sure the exact specs but its pretty standard on pre fab metal buildings.

There is no way any one or two window units will cool this area down. I also dont want two huge holes in my wall.

I like the air sock with the elevated handler, something similar to that with a 5 ton evaporator and outdoor condensor would probably work. Just need to find a good unit that wont break the bank. Id prefer r22 but seems they are the same costs as 410 now.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[justinjoyal]

Why prefer r22 ? And where does that 5T figure come from ?

 

[MushCreek]

Do a Manual J, and be brutally honest when adding in all of the factors. I had a similar shop in FL, and 5 tons was not enough. It was about 80 in there during the day if I let it run 24/7. If I tried to turn it on in the morning, it never caught up. One big factor for my building was that it had big metal doors on each end, painted dark brown. The landlord wouldn't let me paint them a sensible color, and they introduced a LOT of heat, even after I insulated them.

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

R22 is OUT unless you buy used. Even "dry" (Nitrogen charged) units have not shipped since Jan 1 2016. I tried to find one the other day, and they are GONE.

Its 410a bud.

 

[04chase]

410a is usually run at higher pressures ,though using more efficient compressors there are ways to run different refrigerants with r22 compressors and lower pressure ,lowering load and using less power. Not residential here in the states though but refrigerant grade propane is commonly used in other countries and will rival or beat power consumption of good 410 compressors. Just learned about that during a bit of research.

Though, I prefer to get new ,it's all about the dollars. I have also considered replacing my houses current 4 ton that can hardly keep up in the heat with a 5 ton but that will also require a new line set . So pretty involved and the air handler will need to be changed to a side exit so I can put it where I want. It also won't be enough imo.

I'm being brutally honest and imo 5 ton will barely cut it even with the insulation as its been in the high 90s, low 100s. Last Monday was 112, today is 102 .

If I'm going to install an a/c might as well have enough too cool it down enough to be comfortable in a short amount of time, going to utilize a WiFi thermostat .

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[justinjoyal]

R22 is OUT unless you buy used. Even "dry" (Nitrogen charged) units have not shipped since Jan 1 2016. I tried to find one the other day, and they are GONE.

Its 410a bud.

We can still find them in Canada. I just received a 2-ton central unit for a customer. Pre-charged with R22.

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

Ok, but WHY? R-22 is at $500-$575 for 30#, R-410a is at $100-140 for 25#. If you are changing out a system with much age, its likely 10 SEER, and the 13 SEER standard has been in place for many years....so your still changing the indoor coil. I see no advantage to going R-22 at this point in the game.

 

[justinjoyal]

In this particular case the customer already has the indoor coil, which is new, never hooked up. He didnt have the funds to purchase the outside unit before....

 

[heffneil]

Did you ever get a good price for the Air Sock? I am looking to purchase one now too!

 

[ctgoodman]

You ever consider a mini split with at least a couple of indoor units. One on each end with their own separate climate controls? Just a couple of small holes to get these installed.

 

[04chase]

You ever consider a mini split with at least a couple of indoor units. One on each end with their own separate climate controls? Just a couple of small holes to get these installed.

yes sir , i have and most likely will go that route , i think it will cool the shop fine as well as not needing bulky ducting. i have wired and charged many of them , custom line sets and learned about charging them using sub-cool and super-heating techniques. Two inverter three ton mini splits would do the job in my shop , one at each end though pull a decent amount of power 30 amps for the pair of twin 3 ton's . I can get them for a really good deal from a local guy. I can use one if needed and two if it really needs it . The new inverter types are really nice with how they slowly control compressors rather than on or off and high load starts . Probably the route that ill go now that its heating up.

 

[ctgoodman]

yes sir , i have and most likely will go that route , i think it will cool the shop fine as well as not needing bulky ducting. i have wired and charged many of them , custom line sets and learned about charging them using sub-cool and super-heating techniques. Two inverter three ton mini splits would do the job in my shop , one at each end though pull a decent amount of power 30 amps for the pair of twin 3 ton's . I can get them for a really good deal from a local guy. I can use one if needed and two if it really needs it . The new inverter types are really nice with how they slowly control compressors rather than on or off and high load starts . Probably the route that ill go now that its heating up.

I think the addition of a couple of ceiling fans to push the air around and even it out would go a long way in improving the comfort overall.

 

[04chase]

I think the addition of a couple of ceiling fans to push the air around and even it out would go a long way in improving the comfort overall.

Have 3 60" fans to hang still in the boxs. Time is my only enemy.

 

[Jackfre]

How about a couple of these?
http://www.fujitsu-general.com/us/residential/products/split/ceiling/abu36rslx.html
That would be 6 tons with inverters in each. I believe these are wireless capable now, but please confirm that. Much simpler install. As to the unitary R22 vs 410A, even if the front end price is less on the 22, I can't see where it makes sense moving forward to do 22. I've found 410a to be excellent.

 

[theoldwizard1]

... Two inverter three ton mini splits would do the job in my shop , one at each end ...

With a 30x50 area to cool, I would strongly suggest you mount them on opposite sides of the long wall of the building AND pay the extra for at least 4 (6 would be better) interior air handlers.

... I can get them for a really good deal from a local guy.

BUYER BEWARE ! Cheaper models are not as efficient as the better name brand models. Check the specs !

 

[nsula_country]

Ok, but WHY? R-22 is at $500-$575 for 30#, R-410a is at $100-140 for 25#. If you are changing out a system with much age, its likely 10 SEER, and the 13 SEER standard has been in place for many years....so your still changing the indoor coil. I see no advantage to going R-22 at this point in the game.

R22 is over $600 now for #30.

Min SEER for most of the US is now 14 SEER. 15 SEER in the SouthEast US.

There is no way I would invest in installing a new or used R22 system. R410 units can be found used if desired on CL.

This is IMHO.

CT

 

[justinjoyal]

If I'm going to install an a/c might as well have enough too cool it down enough to be comfortable in a short amount of time, going to utilize a WiFi thermostat .

Go too big and you'll find yourself working in a cool, humid, unconfortable shop.

With a 30x50 area to cool, I would strongly suggest you mount them on opposite sides of the long wall of the building AND pay the extra for at least 4 (6 would be better) interior air handlers.

Two properly sized handlers will work fine.

4 would be great.

6 is overkill.

learned about charging them using sub-cool and super-heating techniques.

Please explain.