a/c ideas.

[dsimatt]

I know there is alot of info passed in here so i thought i would pick some peoples brains. My house is a typical 1300sgft 3bd ranch with a pretty open kitchen,dining and living room that has hot water heat, half finshed basement and no a/c so i'm sweating pretty good. I don't have the funds to do anything right now but want as much info as possible when the time comes.

#1 ductless units mainly mitsubishi brand in theory would be the easiest to install, more efficent as not cooling rooms i don't use because i would put one in my room, one in the living room and maybe one of the spare rooms. I'd really like to do a ceiling cassette in the living room. The cons for me is they are ugly, pretty expensive and without a unit in everyroom you have to keep doors open.

#2 Forced air which i kind of prefer but will be alot more labor intensive because under my living room and spare bedroom is the finished basement with drywalled ceilings so would have to rip that down or not run vents to those rooms. I don't really like the idea of adding ducting into the basement but it would IMO provide more consistant air temps room to room.

#3 is the same as 2 but going a step further by ripping out my boiler and all the copper and go to forced air for both heating and cooling but this would get expensive real fast i think, also i would then lose heating in the basement that i currently have.

So basically i'd like to hear opinons on this, don't really care about spec or sizing because this is basically just to get a better idea.

 

[Jagmandave]

You may find that once you get the upstairs cooled you don't need to have vents downstairs.....cool air falls, hot air rises...

In that case you put the air handler in the attic and drop all your vents into the ceiling......less cost and easier install.

I would not do three mini splits, myself......

 

[Rockhead261]

You may find that once you get the upstairs cooled you don't need to have vents downstairs.....cool air falls, hot air rises...

In that case you put the air handler in the attic and drop all your vents into the ceiling......less cost and easier install.

I would not do three mini splits, myself......

What he said.

Minisplits are problem solvers where ductwork would be a ***** to install. That said there's no beating a ducted central system for function and comfort.

Personally, I'd go with option #2 and leave the heat alone. As tempting as it may seem you will eventually regret installing forced hot air.

 

[dsimatt]

You may find that once you get the upstairs cooled you don't need to have vents downstairs.....cool air falls, hot air rises...

In that case you put the air handler in the attic and drop all your vents into the ceiling......less cost and easier install.

I would not do three mini splits, myself......

Sorry i wasn't clear, i ment having all the tubes run in the basement and having to probaly removed some of the ceiling. I wouldn't actually run any air into the basement because of what you said.

The whole attic deal is something that really would be a last option because a few people i know that have them have had issues from it, also i have 2 ft of insulation up there so that would make it harder to.

 

[dsimatt]

What he said.

Minisplits are problem solvers where ductwork would be a ***** to install. That said there's no beating a ducted central system for function and comfort.

Personally, I'd go with option #2 and leave the heat alone. As tempting as it may seem you will eventually regret installing forced hot air.

I agree and they would be easiest to install and they have their benefits to but i have read that they do have issues and sometimes you can end up waiting awhile for the needed parts you'll pay dearly for.

The ducted seems like it will give the best whole house cooling option plus the thing i like is the wifi option for the t-stat so i could control it away from home like my friend has and is really nice.

The other thing is I'm probaly gonna be in this place maybe for 10 years so i kinda want to do what is more attractive and decent priced.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Stay away from cassettes. They are marginal for airflow, many drip and when the fan motor capacitor goes (and it will) you more or less have to take it apart to replace it because its stud mounted to the chassis.

Tommy

 

[dsimatt]

Stay away from cassettes. They are marginal for airflow, many drip and when the fan motor capacitor goes (and it will) you more or less have to take it apart to replace it because its stud mounted to the chassis.

Tommy

Thats good to know, i like the looks of that style the best but reading up on them with needing a water pump to move the water away and such seems like asking for future issues, plus there is 2ft+ of insulation where it would go.

 

[justinjoyal]

Mini-splits are not perfect, but they are easy to install and cheap to run and maintain.

If it's too much of an hassle to install something in your attic and don't want nothing in the basement, then i think mini-splits should be considered.

You don't have to go with Mitsubishi either. There are several brands out there offering excellent quality and service and that are cheaper.

 

[brewchief]

With careful planning you can minimize the amount of drywall work in the basement.
I prefer to keep any ductwork within the heated or cooled space as it is more efficient.

An air handler with a heat pump would help with heating costs in the spring and fall as well as provide summer cooling, heat in the winter would fall back to the current hot water system.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[dsimatt]

Mini-splits are not perfect, but they are easy to install and cheap to run and maintain.

If it's too much of an hassle to install something in your attic and don't want nothing in the basement, then i think mini-splits should be considered.

You don't have to go with Mitsubishi either. There are several brands out there offering excellent quality and service and that are cheaper.

So what are other good brands, they are just getting popular around here and mitsubishi is the only brand that is used by people i kinda know.

My big thing with the attic deal is cooling air down and then running it thru a hot attic doesn't make the most sense, or have the system sitting there all winter in the freezing temps.

My buddies grandparents have a attice one and the drain got plugged and held moisture in it till it cracked and they only found out about it after itdid a bunch of water damage in the place.

 

[dsimatt]

With careful planning you can minimize the amount of drywall work in the basement.
I prefer to keep any ductwork within the heated or cooled space as it is more efficient.

An air handler with a heat pump would help with heating costs in the spring and fall as well as provide summer cooling, heat in the winter would fall back to the current hot water system.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

The living room and one bedroom are the only ones above the finished part so wouldn't be the worst to cut outout some drywall if needed. I look at it as its more labor intense to run the ducting but alot cheaper than adding more units.

I forgot to mention that the heat would be a added bonus, thou if i could i'd just get the ac only ones if they were quite abit cheaper. Also being this is GJ i'd spec the outside unit bigger so in the future i'd have the option of adding a unit in the garage to heat and cool.

This spring was pretty weird will quite a few pretty cool days but i found it could run my heat up for a few hours and the house would hold the temps up pretty good for a few days before it got to cool inside.

 

[justinjoyal]

So what are other good brands, they are just getting popular around here and mitsubishi is the only brand that is used by people i kinda know.

Fujitsu, Friedrich, LG, Panasonic, etc.

Even Gree now offers great units. They used to be low-end stuff, but they stepped their game up and i'm totally confident in their products now.

As a matter of fact I recently replaced a Fujitsu/Friedrich unit with a Gree model (U-Crown). Very efficient, nice features, great warranty (10 years here), etc.

 

[dsimatt]

Fujitsu, Friedrich, LG, Panasonic, etc.

Even Gree now offers great units. They used to be low-end stuff, but they stepped their game up and i'm totally confident in their products now.

As a matter of fact I recently replaced a Fujitsu/Friedrich unit with a Gree model (U-Crown). Very efficient, nice features, great warranty (10 years here), etc.

I'll have to check those out, Mitsubishi has alot of dealers around here, my dad had a guy that was gonna give me a good deal until the owner did some stuff that the cops kinda frown on so thats gone.

The guy that did my furnace this year sells carrier ones i think but was pushing for forced air, of course he'll make alot more on labor that way.

 

[justinjoyal]

Carrier make good products.

Daikin has good mini-splits as well.

Mitsubishis are great but they have nothing better than the competitors these day other than the brand name/fame. They use that to demand a higher price...

 

[Dagny]

I would have bought a window shaker day before yesterday. It was humid here.You could get by with that then put complete conventional system in basement later.

 

[dsimatt]

I guess when it comes to mini-splits i have to fight a stigma I've probaly made that they won't cool as well or are unreliable but when it comes down to it they seem like the better option for houses like mine.
My question I guess is it can get pretty hot up here and the humidity gets bad so if i put a couple of these units in will it do the job because if i'm pay alot of money when i out the thermostat at 67 i expect it to be there.

Well daikin brand is out for now as their only dealer that is somewhat close is real shady and i won't give them my business.

 

[dsimatt]

I would have bought a window shaker day before yesterday. It was humid here.You could get by with that then put complete conventional system in basement later.

I have one in my bedroom i bought the 1st summer i was here, it cools the bedroom nice but thats it, also the previous owners put in windows that can't have ac units in them.

The heat ***** but is bearable, the humidity like yesterday is what makes in unbearable and when it gets inside it really *****.

 

[justinjoyal]

I guess when it comes to mini-splits i have to fight a stigma I've probaly made that they won't cool as well or are unreliable but when it comes down to it they seem like the better option for houses like mine.

My question I guess is it can get pretty hot up here and the humidity gets bad so if i put a couple of these units in will it do the job because if i'm pay alot of money when i out the thermostat at 67 i expect it to be there.



Well daikin brand is out for now as their only dealer that is somewhat close is real shady and i won't give them my business.

A well positionned, well sized, mini-split(s) will do a great job of getting rid of humidity and cool down your place nicely.

 

[dsimatt]

A well positionned, well sized, mini-split(s) will do a great job of getting rid of humidity and cool down your place nicely.

The problem with my place is the living, dining and kitchen is in a big square with a wall the goes half way accross that divides the lining room from the rest so air flow could be a issue, but i'm trying to see about removing it possibly.

The main rooms i care about cooling are the living room and my bedroom so those would be where i would place the units and make sure the compressor is big enough to add another unit if needed in the future.

 

[Fueler]

My question I guess is it can get pretty hot up here and the humidity gets bad so if i put a couple of these units in will it do the job because if i'm pay alot of money when i out the thermostat at 67 i expect it to be there.

Probably don't want to focus so much on the 67 degree. Humidity is the key.
An example.
My 40x40x12 open ceiling building is running a 32000 btu mini split. It is not as well insulated as it needs to be. Working on that.
This is my first year for the MS after my 3rd through the wall bit the dust and never really made it nice in here.
Yesterday it was 92 degrees and 90% outside. Gagging air in other words. Inside is set at 70 degrees. Across the room from the unit outlet it was 73 degrees and 53% humidity. The 53% makes it feel cooler than it really is.

At the worst of the day the unit would ramp up to 4 bars out of 5 and then drop back to 1 or 2 a little later. Pretty neat. When the temp drops back into the 80s it usually is running at first bar or idle.
It should also be noted that during this time I was milling some parts and doing some TIG welding.

Operating costs? Don't know yet. I will wait until the season is over, pull the bills and compare them to the last couple of years. All I know for sure at the moment is that it is a far better working environment than I had in the past.

I fully intended to add a second unit on the other side of the building if needed but so far I think I am golden.
I think my insulation upgrades will knock the operating cost way down, whatever they may be.

Your insulated home should be a snap once you figure out the flow path thing.

 

[Fueler]

The problem with my place is the living, dining and kitchen is in a big square with a wall the goes half way accross that divides the lining room from the rest so air flow could be a issue, but i'm trying to see about removing it possibly.

The main rooms i care about cooling are the living room and my bedroom so those would be where i would place the units and make sure the compressor is big enough to add another unit if needed in the future.

Once the wife saw what was happening with the shop she asked when the house was getting upgraded. It's on "the list" now.

My ranch is like yours with the living room/kitchen wall thing. I have 2 choices. Knock out part of that wall like you say. It's a load bearing wall so that will entail more work than I probably want to deal with. We shall see.

The other choice is a dual mini outlet. I'm thinking 9K on both sides. Maybe 12 since it doesn't seem I can oversize these things. I will try that and see where it goes. IF it is not enough to reach the other end of the house then a dual 9k on that end for the bedrooms.

It will certainly be superior to the noisy, power hungry, window shakers we put up with now.

 

[dsimatt]

Once the wife saw what was happening with the shop she asked when the house was getting upgraded. It's on "the list" now.

My ranch is like yours with the living room/kitchen wall thing. I have 2 choices. Knock out part of that wall like you say. It's a load bearing wall so that will entail more work than I probably want to deal with. We shall see.

The other choice is a dual mini outlet. I'm thinking 9K on both sides. Maybe 12 since it doesn't seem I can oversize these things. I will try that and see where it goes. IF it is not enough to reach the other end of the house then a dual 9k on that end for the bedrooms.

It will certainly be superior to the noisy, power hungry, window shakers we put up with now.

Yeah i want to knock it out to but thats alot of work and it is sorta nice that it gives some privacy, theres a big fireplace on the one side of it that i'm gonna get rid of and that will help alot.

The dual mini split idea might be a option, probaly would go with one big one and see how that goes as my time in the other 2 rooms is very minimal.

For your other reply, you're right about the humidity, i was just trying to say that if i'm paying all this money for a/c i want to be able to crank it down and get chilled, not have something that will just cool the place at best.

Honestly looking at the prices to do this its kinda hard to justify it considering that we really only need a/c for maybe 2 months but I'm Swedish/Norweigen so I don't take to the heat to well so thats why i want it. The power consumtion will be interesting to see but again being comfortable is worth it to me.

 

[dsimatt]

Swung by a a/c place yesterday and talked with a guy and of course the mini-split guy just left before I got there. The guy will be swinging by in a couple weeks after things setting down for them to do a look thru on my house and see about running ducts or minis but they are pushing the minis pretty good.