A/C system plan for shop

[LSVLance]

Wow, 5 tons...
Those non-insulated door will be a problem... I would put insulating them high on your priority list, A/C or not.
My insulated OH doors get to 180* in the sun on the exterior, and still 100 on the interior (foam) of the door. Easy enough to do yourself.

I'm with Justin, insulate the begeezuz out of those overhead doors. What direction do those doors face? I don't suppose you can paint those doors a real light color like BRIGHT white?

Oh I'm on that for sure. The big and little door face due South and the back big door face North. Actually I'm more concerned about the double and single garage doors on the house garage that face West. I'll be insulating those first.

Check out what I found...and am contemplating.

Local contractor has two of these 5 ton self contained heat pumps (1 single stage, 1 2 stage).

On the inside all you have or see is this.

They are only a year or so old and he'll make me an incredible deal on one. I just have to decide if I want to cut and frame in 2 30" wide holes in one of the walls of the shop to hang it. The EER rating is a bit on the low side as well which might be more of a concern. The EER of the single stage is 9.0 and the 2 stage unit is 10.1.

Interesting just the same anyway.

 

[nsula_country]

Wall pack is an interesting choice. EER is lower on package units vs split units. I would have no reason to pass one up.

Buddy of mine had a used 3T wall pack (AC and heat strips) from a communications shelter and never installed it. Paid $200, 3 years later gave it away. If it would have been a 5T, I would have been interested. 3T was too small unless I could have got 2 of them.

Supposedly in the communications industry these units are required to operate 100% to keep the electronics cool. Also, supposedly they are replaced every 1-5 years needed or not. So they show up regularly, cheap.

CT

 

[cory58]

Check out what I found...and am contemplating.

Local contractor has two of these 5 ton self contained heat pumps (1 single stage, 1 2 stage).



On the inside all you have or see is this.

They are only a year or so old and he'll make me an incredible deal on one. I just have to decide if I want to cut and frame in 2 30" wide holes in one of the walls of the shop to hang it. The EER rating is a bit on the low side as well which might be more of a concern. The EER of the single stage is 9.0 and the 2 stage unit is .

Just make sure they do not use R22 refrigerant. Getting more expensive every day.

Cory




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rattle_snake]

After much contemplation and deliberation I have ordered a heat pump system. I went with a pair of Daikin 18K BTU series 15 units to yield a 3 Ton, dual head system.

Why this route?
18k size provides more options and competitive pricing. A single 36K in the Daikin brand requires stepping up to their mid-range line. A dual head 36k is even more expensive.

I considered the Pioneer units but choose to spend a little more on Daikin for future parts/support. Daikin has been around for a long time...

The independent pair will provide redundancy.

The down side is a 2nd outdoor unit. I plan to stack the 2 so footprint is the same. This will require a more elaborate mounting solution, likely a steel structure. Will probably build vented walls on 2 sides for aesthetics.

Not sure I will ever use the heating capability, but the cost increase was trivial. My shop does not go below low 60s.

Should be delivered tomorrow. I was able to order them and install parts at wholesale cost though my friend who has an a/c business. I'm going to install myself and have him come out to vac/charge/test.

Spring lasted only 2 days this year and summer is here already (90* today).

 

[peter2772000]

Let us know how it goes. Daiken is, in my humble opinion, one of the top three.

 

[6768rogues]

Get a unit with readily available filters and place it where you can easily check or replace the filter. My shop filters get dirty fast.

 

[nsula_country]

Justin,

Interesting you chose minis over split. I'm following your install. I think minis are awesome and the redundant and/or 2 zone idea is nice.

Filtration would be my concern. Minis have basically a window shaker filter. With a split you can install a 1", 2" or 4" filter receiver... Shops have dust and dirt. Just sweeping the floor I turn the fans off due to dust... And I have no HVAC...

Not saying minis are a bad choice in a shop. But us engineers overthink everything and filtration would be my personal concern. With this said, I'm an engineer for a HVAC OEM. I also am a HVAC contractor. Any questions, I'm here.

CT

 

[rattle_snake]

My decision was based on price, compactness, ease of install and aesthetics.
My goal isn't to cool the entire space evenly or filter the air. If it was a ducted spilt would be the way to go.

From my research a ducted system of similar brand quality, SEER and features would be considerably more expensive.

Ductless mini's take up minimal space. To do a ducted system right I would have had to plan for it in the first place, with ducting in the ceiling before drywall. I didn't have the funds or a plan at the time.

I don't want to look at exposed ductwork (vanity is a *****), and with the lift I would have had to work around it. I think the 2 mini heads will provide the distribution I need, and be barely noticeable.

Being in AZ with horses on a gravel road my property is as dusty as it gets. After some use I will know the filter cleaning interval and act accordingly. I have a outdoor work bench with lighting for dirty jobs like sanding/painting. Because the shop is dual duty for parking, I try to keep it as clean as possible. When things get stirred up, I switch on the exhaust fan.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Oh I'm on that for sure. The big and little door face due South and the back big door face North. Actually I'm more concerned about the double and single garage doors on the house garage that face West. I'll be insulating those first.

Check out what I found...and am contemplating.

Local contractor has two of these 5 ton self contained heat pumps (1 single stage, 1 2 stage).

On the inside all you have or see is this.

They are only a year or so old and he'll make me an incredible deal on one. I just have to decide if I want to cut and frame in 2 30" wide holes in one of the walls of the shop to hang it. The EER rating is a bit on the low side as well which might be more of a concern. The EER of the single stage is 9.0 and the 2 stage unit is 10.1.

Interesting just the same anyway.

I hate those things. Pain in the *** to service ANYTHING on them...

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Oh I'm on that for sure. The big and little door face due South and the back big door face North. Actually I'm more concerned about the double and single garage doors on the house garage that face West. I'll be insulating those first.

Check out what I found...and am contemplating.

Local contractor has two of these 5 ton self contained heat pumps (1 single stage, 1 2 stage).

On the inside all you have or see is this.

They are only a year or so old and he'll make me an incredible deal on one. I just have to decide if I want to cut and frame in 2 30" wide holes in one of the walls of the shop to hang it. The EER rating is a bit on the low side as well which might be more of a concern. The EER of the single stage is 9.0 and the 2 stage unit is 10.1.

Interesting just the same anyway.

I hate those things. Pain in the *** to service ANYTHING on them... Those EER ratings aren't all that low for light commercial heat pumps under 65k Btu. An EER of 11 meets Energy Star requirements. A more realistic rating for you would be the HSPF. It should be 14 or better. R22 would be a walk away for me. Make sure they're not 3Ø, too...

Tommy

 

[Uncle Fester]

My decision was based on price, compactness, ease of install and aesthetics.
My goal isn't to cool the entire space evenly or filter the air. If it was a ducted spilt would be the way to go.

From my research a ducted system of similar brand quality, SEER and features would be considerably more expensive.

Ductless mini's take up minimal space. To do a ducted system right I would have had to plan for it in the first place, with ducting in the ceiling before drywall. I didn't have the funds or a plan at the time.

I don't want to look at exposed ductwork (vanity is a *****), and with the lift I would have had to work around it. I think the 2 mini heads will provide the distribution I need, and be barely noticeable.

Being in AZ with horses on a gravel road my property is as dusty as it gets. After some use I will know the filter cleaning interval and act accordingly. I have a outdoor work bench with lighting for dirty jobs like sanding/painting. Because the shop is dual duty for parking, I try to keep it as clean as possible. When things get stirred up, I switch on the exhaust fan.

In for the updates, also in the valley and have a new garage I will be looking to keep cool soon.

 

[slodat]

I think you are going to be very happy with your choice! I’m going into my third summer with my system- two 24k Pioneer systems in 3500 sq ft. I turn the thermostat as low as it goes (62F I think) and let them run all summer. It costs about $25/mo to run them. The shop stays so cool I often have a sweatshirt nearby if I’m not moving much. It’s a wonderful retreat from the desert sun. I’ve been happy with the Pioneers. I was on a tight budget when I bought them. You won’t regret the Daiken units.

 

[rattle_snake]

I think you are going to be very happy with your choice! I’m going into my third summer with my system- two 24k Pioneer systems in 3500 sq ft. I turn the thermostat as low as it goes (62F I think) and let them run all summer. It costs about $25/mo to run them. The shop stays so cool I often have a sweatshirt nearby if I’m not moving much. It’s a wonderful retreat from the desert sun. I’ve been happy with the Pioneers. I was on a tight budget when I bought them. You won’t regret the Daiken units.

Wow 25$/mo seems really cheap for 4 tons.
My 2500sq ft home uses $200+/mo with 5.5 tons set at ~78. I'm hoping the shop bill will be under $50/mo.
The max set point temp is 90. Will probably set it to that M-Th and pump down to 80s F-Sun

Systems are installed and running

 

[slodat]

Wow 25$/mo seems really cheap for 4 tons.
My 2500sq ft home uses $200+/mo with 5.5 tons set at ~78. I'm hoping the shop bill will be under $50/mo.
The max set point temp is 90. Will probably set it to that M-Th and pump down to 80s F-Sun

Systems are installed and running

That's about $25/mo each. Should have been more clear. We pay $0.04/KWh here..

 

[abgiles]

Wow 25$/mo seems really cheap for 4 tons.
My 2500sq ft home uses $200+/mo with 5.5 tons set at ~78. I'm hoping the shop bill will be under $50/mo.
The max set point temp is 90. Will probably set it to that M-Th and pump down to 80s F-Sun

Systems are installed and running

Hey, nice looking rack! Where'd you end up getting it?

 

[Finallygotit]

He made it.

 

[Uncle Fester]

With it getting warmer I am really interested in your feedback. I have a 1000sq ft shop well insulated with only a garage door and man door. Do not want to go overboard on the system but keep it comfortable to enjoy.

 

[rattle_snake]

With it getting warmer I am really interested in your feedback. I have a 1000sq ft shop well insulated with only a garage door and man door. Do not want to go overboard on the system but keep it comfortable to enjoy.

Where are you located? (add to your profile) It also depends on how you plan to use the system.

I have only run the system one weekend when it was 100* outside, which isn't even hot where I live. Under that condition the 2 units ran most of the day and did cycle off. Fan was set on auto, and ran at low speed.

Note the fan speed is also the effective BTU capacity, and on low these units are 5k out of 18k.
Had fan be set to max, they would cycle like a fixed capacity system.

Since it is cool at night I still run my automatic exhaust fan. Having a well ventilated attic is also important.

I am in process of installing wifi interfaces on the units for remote control and scheduling. They also have a energy metering so I should be able to figure out how much power/$ they use.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Sorry I have updated my profile. I live in Phoenix so a good A/C system is of the essence for comfort. Worked in the shop all weekend doing drywall and it stayed pretty comfortable even at 106. Hope to order up a A/C unit in the next few months and really interested in your feedback.

 

[OzarkMan]

My garage is unbelievably comfortable at 74º with my 3 ton mini split system. Its been up and running for two weeks. Just like Justin, I wondered why I waited. The cost wasn't too terrible for the ability to utilize 1100 square feet of space. Outside of Phoenix, most people take for granted the inability to use the garage when the inside temps reach 120º
Just an ungodly furnace out here for the next 4 months.

 

[OzarkMan]

Wow 25$/mo seems really cheap for 4 tons.
My 2500sq ft home uses $200+/mo with 5.5 tons set at ~78. I'm hoping the shop bill will be under $50/mo.
The max set point temp is 90. Will probably set it to that M-Th and pump down to 80s F-Sun


My house is expanded to 2900Sq ft. Before the 2nd addition, my bill was at a max of 291 a month in the summer. This was cooling with a 5 ton unit a 2500sq ft space, a pool, three refrigerators, an undercounter commercial ice maker, a one ton mini split and a shitload of exterior night lighting. Granted everything in the house is LED, theres a ton of them. We do not have gas service so I think the electric bill isn't too bad for the energy we are using. It sounds about right where your bill is too. I am thinking of the Tesla solar system with battery backup. Have you thought about going solar? of course, that commitment means you are staying put. My wife and I like change but after finding this nice 1.1acre property I don't think we will find another for what we paid let alone how much we dumped to make it our own.

I have a feeling my bill will be around $360 with all the above and the addition of the 3 ton and 1.5 ton mini splits.

 

[fnbadaz06]

Another Phoenix desert dweller here.....good read on the solutions you all have come up with

 

[rattle_snake]

Welcome to JG.

So some feedback on my building/AC now that I have some miles on it and it's warm outside (not !$#$ing hot quite yet).

Still running exhaust fan 4-6am as it cooler than indoor temp.
I only run A/C evening and weekends when I am in the building. At 5-6pm the building is in the low 90s so I switch on one or both units on 'auto' (low, 5Kbtu) will pump down to low 80s within an hour. low 80s when its 110 out is nice and cool enough and uses minimal $. I wait to park hot truck till bedtime.

I have yet to have to turn on both units on high and evaluate the max capacity, but will at some point soon enough.