A couple questions about applying anti seize.

[jgelack]

I am installing a set of case covers on my motorcycle. The bolts that came with the covers are stainless steel. Since these will be going into an aluminum engine block, I know I need to apply some anti seize prior to installation. My question is which type should I use? I already have some regular Permatex aluminum anti seize, but I also know they make a copper and nickel based anti seize as well. Is it ok to use the aluminum Permatex that I have, or should I buy one of the others types? Also, how much do I use? Be generous with it, or does a little go a long way? Do I apply it to the whole bolt thread, or just to the end of the bolt? I appreciate any advice you can give me. Thank you

 

[dnschmidt]

No matter what type you use you'll end up wearing most of it as that's the nature of the beast. The normal type will work fine in your application the others have specific uses such as high temperature. I try to be sparing with it as all you need is a coating on the threads and the less you use the less you wear. I put a dab on about four threads and as they are inserted that spreads them to the entire threaded part of the bolt. Sort of the same way you apply Loctite which I actually prefer over antiseize as it accomplishes the same thing and keeps the bolts from coming loose. One thing that is important that most people miss is that a lot of the galling happens underneath the bolt head so it's good to put some there as well. Just a dab will do you but it still doesn't matter you're going to be wearing most of it.

 

[Willie Makeit]

less is more

 

[IMStuner]

I never has to use any antiseize on my case covers but if you were going to use any I would use very little of it.


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[T45]

OP, dnschmidt has also given you the concise answer in the first post, but read this thread below for more details etc. It answers almost the exact same topic in the same context. Good luck and defitely always keep an eye on stainless hardware when installing it.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6179474&postcount=32

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347841&highlight=stainless+anti-seize

 

[jgelack]

No matter what type you use you'll end up wearing most of it as that's the nature of the beast. The normal type will work fine in your application the others have specific uses such as high temperature. I try to be sparing with it as all you need is a coating on the threads and the less you use the less you wear. I put a dab on about four threads and as they are inserted that spreads them to the entire threaded part of the bolt. Sort of the same way you apply Loctite which I actually prefer over antiseize as it accomplishes the same thing and keeps the bolts from coming loose. One thing that is important that most people miss is that a lot of the galling happens underneath the bolt head so it's good to put some there as well. Just a dab will do you but it still doesn't matter you're going to be wearing most of it.

So the Loctite will perform the same function as the anti seize in regards to the prevention of galling/seizure due to the dissimilar metals?

 

[jgelack]

I never has to use any antiseize on my case covers but if you were going to use any I would use very little of it.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of hardware came with your covers? Have you had to remove them yet?

 

[T45]

So the Loctite will perform the same function as the anti seize in regards to the prevention of galling/seizure due to the dissimilar metals?

Don't over-simplify here. Loctite is plastic. Anti-seize is glorified grease. Use each one appropriately. Heat will melt&degrade plastic. It will also degrade grease.

That is why regular grease and loctite will BOTH fail and why bolts will later "seize", and why you need anti-seize.

Loctite is a complex discussion--Loctite has hundreds of variations and you better make sure you're using the correct chemsitry. They are not a generic thing ("loctite") when it comes down to it. Loctite is a brand like snap-on...you cannot just say "oh, fix the car with some snap-on" and really make any sense.

I mean, its true you can use snap-on tools to fix your car, but it doesn't really communicate the information that it might appear at first glance .

 

[IMStuner]

I never has to use any antiseize on my case covers but if you were going to use any I would use very little of it.



Just out of curiosity, what kind of hardware came with your covers? Have you had to remove them yet?

I had some R&G covers and they came with crappy stainless screw which I replaced with standard black oxide grade 8 hex caps screw on my Ducati monster 1200s and on my R1 woodcraft came with some stainless steel screws but the tread cut was much nicer.

I don't even use a torque wrench on the screws and I rely on my Bondhus T handle to tell me if the screw is tight enough. Most of the time the shaft will twist acting like a torque stick.


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[sberry]

I rarely use anti seize, simply spray the bolts with a little weasel pee or light oil to keep them from dry seize when installed and it keeps a little moisture out. We even do this with some submerged parts, threads rust right off the exposed ends, nuts come off. We can even tell on clamps that been in the weather a decade, sprayed with something as simple as WD, can tell the difference between those installed dry. Thousands of these.

 

[jgelack]

I had some R&G covers and they came with crappy stainless screw which I replaced with standard black oxide grade 8 hex caps screw on my Ducati monster 1200s and on my R1 woodcraft came with some stainless steel screws but the tread cut was much nicer.

I don't even use a torque wrench on the screws and I rely on my Bondhus T handle to tell me if the screw is tight enough. Most of the time the shaft will twist acting like a torque stick.


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Thanks, NICE bikes! Thanks everyone for the advice!

 

[sberry]

The fact that routine engine rebuilding is a thing of the past for most is a contributing factor to general mechanics that don't have a feel for proper torque anymore. We used to get to compare feel against a torque wrench on a regular basis for long time.
I saw a test for electricians a while back, a dozen guys at a trade show, the only one was close got it perfect, the rest off so far you can see why they need the wrench, some sposed to be 25 and they got as low as 7, several 14, about half right.
Last inspection I did the guy had a fat handled Klien and did them like I did in a check and was satisfied as he could be, very experienced man knows what it should feel like.

 

[dnschmidt]

Having formerly been in racing I have a standard procedure. If it has a thread on it put blue Loctite on it. Head bolts and spark plugs excepted. For head bolts use ARP lube and for spark plugs anti-seize (yea I know the spark plug manufacturers don't recommend this but they aren't paying thousands of dollars to AFR for aluminum cylinder heads now are they? We bought 242 (now 243 - the oil compatible version) in quart bottles we used so much of it and to this day I know of no racing team that doesn't use it the same way we did which is on just about everything. The reason Loctite can be used instead of anti-seize it that it fills the gaps between threads thereby preventing thread to thread contact and therefore seizure. Removal of blue Loctite isn't much of a problem as normally you can just remove it normally. If it's being a pain just use a torch to heat it up and melt the Loctite. OK, I'LL ADMIT IT: I LOVE LOCTITE!!!

 

[M6erfan]

What about low strength purple Loctite (222)? I mean, if the purpose is just to coat the treads and not needing holding power, wouldn't that be better? Also, back in the day I used Gasgacinch on dirt bike case bolts, it worked very well.

 

[SantaAna12]

"ARP" lube.

Well I went to the ARP site, and I can see why u would want that on such a critical application. Cool stuff. I also appreciated the comment about wearing the anti-seize! Right on the money. Hah!

 

[Wamsutta]

I use the silver Permatex and work it into the threads with an acid brush.

 

[CrashmanS]

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[sberry]

I was working on a nuke and in a small room was a stainless tank snuggled in. Every day someone would squeeze by in to the back corner and piss there. The imbeds were painted gray, white walls. So one day my partner gets a whole can of pure nickle nuke grade never seize and we paint the steel imbed all the way, about 6 or 7 ft worth and side of tank.
We working 10 hrs and go back after lunch and the gap between the tank and well about 10 inches or so, just enough to squeeze thru if a guy pressed. The guy must have had a beard but it was kind of dark and couldn't see all this before but what a mess, hand smears, must have mopped it all over, smeared all over the wall for several feet, must have got it both ways.
We tried to figure out who it was and we spent the rest of the shift looking for the guy, he must have went home, not sure how a guy could have cleaned up. Took a couple laborers a day or 2 to clean it up. You could see face prints, we used a kind or guart, it was back in the early 80,s, I forget some details now but can still remember the mess.

 

[wolf_from_wv]

"One does not simply wipe off anti-seize."
http://www.quickmeme.com/p/3vxkii

I think you could turn into the tin man just from what sticks to the brush. Not sure how far a bottle that is warm from sitting in the sun would go...

 

[vettex2]

Having formerly been in racing I have a standard procedure. If it has a thread on it put blue Loctite on it. Head bolts and spark plugs excepted. For head bolts use ARP lube and for spark plugs anti-seize (yea I know the spark plug manufacturers don't recommend this but they aren't paying thousands of dollars to AFR for aluminum cylinder heads now are they? We bought 242 (now 243 - the oil compatible version) in quart bottles we used so much of it and to this day I know of no racing team that doesn't use it the same way we did which is on just about everything. The reason Loctite can be used instead of anti-seize it that it fills the gaps between threads thereby preventing thread to thread contact and therefore seizure. Removal of blue Loctite isn't much of a problem as normally you can just remove it normally. If it's being a pain just use a torch to heat it up and melt the Loctite. OK, I'LL ADMIT IT: I LOVE LOCTITE!!!

What did you race?
We never needed loctite because we did a weekly bolt check

 

[dnschmidt]

Modified. Also for two years (1978, 1979) NASCAR Grand National which at that time was called the Winston Cup. That was fun getting to be in the same pits as Richard Petty, Dale Earnhart and Cale Yarborough who was my favorite when he was running the Holly Farms cars of Junior Johnson. We had two Banjo Mathews' built cars and my mentor Clem Zahrobsky was the engine builder whom I assisted. The team was Lasky Racing and we were out of Pennsylvania. Our driver was Paul Fess who was quite talented and dominated Western Pennsylvania dirt tracks. We actually led one lap of the Daytona 500 when everybody else came into pit. Man, I was really young back then.

 

[jwvess00]

Hello,

I use Loctite on things that want to work themselves loose, such as most of the bolts on my Sportster I tend to use anti-seize on anything else unless the fastener requires something specific (installed dry like wheel studs, etc.)

I've never had a bolt loosen up because I used anti-seize on it, and I've disassembled bolts recently that I assembled a decade ago with anti-seize and had no problems during disassembly. The stuff does work.

Note that any lube (oil,anti-seize, etc.) used on a fastener installed with a torque wrench will affect the reading since a lot of torque specs. are given for a dry fastener (unless a lube is specified).