A drainage issue

[andyvh1959]

Around my house, not the garage. My house was built in 73, on very sandy heavily wooded west side of Green Bay. Its a tri-level, so there is a ground/slab level, and two other levels above. The basement is small, only under the center of the house. There is a sump in the basement with a sump pump. Even this time of year there is some water draining into the sump pit.

But I'm sure the drain tile is full of tree roots, especially after 45+ years. Though I wonder what was used for drain tile back in 73, maybe plastic, likely clay tile. I am really tempted to dig down outside a corner of the foundation to get down to the drain tile and find out. If I do that, I may install a large tee system, onto which I'd add a riser section to end above the lawn/grade level, with a service cap. At least then I could yearly apply chemicals into the drain tile to kill/clean out the tree roots.

Anyone else have direct experience with this. Or is it a level of work that once I am into it, to only do it right/completely is to dig all around the house to replace all the drain tile? At really heavy rains I do get some moisture in the basement. I've already done all the gutters and downspouts to drain well away from the house.

Another alternative: during the dryer summer months, install a riser pipe into the drain tile in the sump pit. Then fill the drain tile with the tree root killer/cleaner chemical. Once it has filled the drain tile and set for a week, take the riser out and hopefully I'll have cleaner drain tile. I've been in the house since 2002 and for many years I never had any water/moisture in the basement.

 

[Higgins]

Before you go to all that work, contact a plumber who has a camera and have him scope the drain tile from the sub pump pit out.

Back in the 70's IL was using the 4" black pipe, so you may also !!

 

[andyvh1959]

Good point about having the drain tile scoped. I'll have to do that.

Forgot about black pipe, which is very likely, given the age of this house. I have another option. I may not have to dig fully down to the basement/foundation level drain tile. The slab level of the house is at least 48" above the basement floor level. I could dig down to the slab level, which I can access with some effort around 3/4 of the house. Then install new drain tile, with proper gravel back fill to within a foot of the current grade. It'd be some work, but it would address all of the house perimeter that is the issue. Also, the lawn grade around 3/4 of the house, is at least two to three feet higher than the rest of the lawn, and slopes down at least 20' out from the house. If I install a new level of drain tile I could have it drain out onto the yard into dry wells 20' out from the house. When done, I'd have two levels of drain tile around 3/4 of the house. That would greatly reduce the amount of surface water getting down to the basement/footing level.

I plan to eventually replace the rear cheap concrete paver patio, and enlarge it with good quality 4" pavers. That would come after I install the new drain tile.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My daughter's house was built in the 80s and had a typical sump pit and pump. About 20 years later, the city installed separate storm drains and told the residents that they could connect their weeping tile to the storm drain (which I believe goes directly into a river). She happens to live 50' from a heavily wooded "green belt".

My daughter has only been there about 8 years, but she knows that once a year they have to have the drain tile "clean" or they will get water in the basement once the ground water level is higher than the basement floor.

 

[dmdc411]

My experience with water in a lower level is with a split entry house I built in 1996. My builder didn't want to pay for fill, so he dropped the top of block elevation by 14inches. This made my yard the low point. When they back filled they used left over fill sand in one area. Why?? When the landscaping was done, they layed plastic sheet over the sand, then rock. Every time it rained, I had water on the floor in that area. Took me a while to figure this out. Talked with two local excavators about my water problems. The one thing they always pushed was grading, or the slope around the house. The one guy, Tom, that helped me actually fix the issue, used to do all this contractors dirt work, but didn't like his bill! Well, cheap work equals, poor results. Tom and I dug the back of the house out, drain tiled, back filled (no sand), and sloped the yard to allow any water to flow away from the house, and out of the yard. I had more issues related to poor construction, all water intrusion around windows and such, that I, a maintenance technician figured out on my own! Wish you luck! By the way, my dad was raised on east side of Green Bay! Still have relatives in Door Cty. My parents brought us to Minn. in the mid 70s, Would love to retire in the GBay area in the future! Still feels like home!!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[andyvh1959]

My house is a contemporary style, and the architect was influenced by Frank Lloyd Wright even though he was a commercial architect. That influence had the house positioned lower on the lot, in fact the house ground level is probably two feet lower than the street level, and lower than all the properties on my side of the street. Yet, being a tri-level means the middle and upper floors are higher than lawn grade, which creates the slope away from the house around 3/4 of the perimeter.

But, like you describe, backfilling the foundation walls was simply done cheap, meaning sand or local soil from the footing level up to final lawn grade. Which means any moisture in the soil can get right up against the foundation walls. In the long run, if I do dig around the house, I may try to get down to the footing level anyway, install new drain tile above the old drain tile, apply 2" or 4" styrofoam to the outside of the foundation and then back fill properly with gravel up to within 12" of the grade level.

I grew up in Appleton, about 25 miles southwest of Green Bay. I'd really like to relocate to Appleton upon retirement, but my wife's family and grandkids are all just east of Green Bay in Denmark. So the west side of Green Bay or Depere will be our likely retirement home. Actually, the west side of Green Bay is great. If I didn't have family, friends and activities in Appleton I'd have no reason not to stay in Green Bay.

 

[Higgins]

Good point about having the drain tile scoped. I'll have to do that.

Forgot about black pipe, which is very likely, given the age of this house. I have another option. I may not have to dig fully down to the basement/foundation level drain tile. The slab level of the house is at least 48" above the basement floor level. I could dig down to the slab level, which I can access with some effort around 3/4 of the house. Then install new drain tile, with proper gravel back fill to within a foot of the current grade. It'd be some work, but it would address all of the house perimeter that is the issue. Also, the lawn grade around 3/4 of the house, is at least two to three feet higher than the rest of the lawn, and slopes down at least 20' out from the house. If I install a new level of drain tile I could have it drain out onto the yard into dry wells 20' out from the house. When done, I'd have two levels of drain tile around 3/4 of the house. That would greatly reduce the amount of surface water getting down to the basement/footing level.

I plan to eventually replace the rear cheap concrete paver patio, and enlarge it with good quality 4" pavers. That would come after I install the new drain tile.

OK, Here is a thought, I totally forgot !!

House is on a hill, so the drain, drains out on the side of the hill !!

Had a friend whos downspout drain was partially clogged!
We purchased a 50' USB camera and connected it to a laptop. Then taped the camera to conduit and slowly pushed it up the corrugated pipe. It took a while, but we were able to see the pile of nuts the chippers had hidden in the pipe. So we just measured back to where the obstruction was, dug down around 2ft, cut pipe, removed debit, used ABS coupler and put pipe back into place.

 

[Bretny]

In 1973 they went useing PVC so basically any thing else as far outlived its life and will have more than one crack. I would be suprised if a camera could even get down the pipe.

 

[jkuro]

If you dig you might as well clean and reseal your basement walls. Perfect time to do this.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you dig you might as well clean and reseal your basement walls. Perfect time to do this.

Do the whole job. Clean, seal, drain board. Use solid pipe (not corrugated) with holes with a sock.

 

[tinmanwpk]

An important fact is to make sure the holes for the drain pipe, whatever product you use, make sure the holes are on the bottom and not the top. Logic may tell you to put the holes on top so water can easily enter, but so will dirt and debris. The holes on the bottom allow the water to be forced up into the drain pipe. I installed drain pipe in one of my lives and before that I had my own house redone. Coating and covering the basement walls with visqueen or whatever is also important. Oh, and use a sock as well.

 

[andyvh1959]

Thanks for all the input. Yup, one way to do it if I get into the project, that is to dig deep enough, install the drain pipe (holes down), seal the outside of the walls, insulate with styrofoam, backfill with gravel. I can access the front of the house easily. The west side is under an elevated deck which makes digging more difficult. That and there is a concrete slab on the ground under the deck. I'd have to cut out a two foot wide chunk of that slab to get down into the dirt. The back of the house, I can take out the current paver patio and small deck, which needs to be redone anyway.

Probably be the time to hire out someone with a Ditch Witch, mini-excavator or similar equipment to auger down four feet and get the dirt moved out. Maybe use a powered trencher? That is if the equipment can get close enough to the foundation to be worth it.

 

[joes169]

You should be able to determine the drain tile material by simply looking in the sump crock. Here, in SE Wisconsin, most drain tile would have been concrete yet in 1973.

If you can get your hands on a sewer camera, scoping the interior drain tile from the crock can give you a pretty good idea what kind of blockage to expect. I literally just did this yesterday on s small basement repair we had to complete, a good camera can save a lot of guessing.

 

[jkuro]

Let me add one more thing if digging. Now would also be the time to redo your gutter drains. They could also be plugged and adding to your current problem.