A little help with an air compressor

[xp190]

Howdy folks!

I came into the possession of an air compressor. I've been using air tools for years, but I was using a tiny 13gal Husky oil less compressor, and it's been a long standing dream of mine to get a decent air supply. Well, I came across a good deal, and I pulled the trigger. I'm now the owner of a new to me but old kellogg canadian air compressor.

I don't know much about this machine, in fact, I don't even know if it runs, and it might be a few weeks before I even get a chance to try it. It is currently sitting in my garage, and the garage is awaiting its electrical hookup.

There are a few tags on the air compressor, one says "Kellogg Canadian, Model: B235A" googling around I'm not able to find anything called Kellogg Canadian, only American, was this company acquired? possibly.
Another tag on the pump says "Swan Air compressor, model SVU-202", I can find Swan, but not a lot of details on this particular pump.
Finally, the motor is a Brook Electric, 3hp, 1 Phase 115/230V, it's big so I'm guessing it's also old. The tag on the tank is covered with some crud so I can't tell what it says just yet, but it's 120 gallons.

I'm attaching some pictures for reference.

I am curious what I can do to see if this thing will perform, it's supposed to deliver 18cfm, but I have a feeling some TLC maybe in order. Aside from electrical being a mess, and the tank covered with some type of crud which I will be cleaning off, the machine looks decent. No oil leaks, dusty, everything spins nice and smooth, it needs a new pressure gauge, pressure switch and electrical wiring as it was removed from a bicycle store and stored in a garage. I have not seen it run.

I noticed that when I spin the pump the oil plug pops up, I don't know what to make of this, but the oil is nice and clean. I also see that the motor is at a slight angle to the pump resulting in one belt being tighter than the other. What is the proper tension of the belts supposed to be? I'm sure it's wrong right now.

Appreciate any input on this machine and help getting it back to work. I'd like to use it for HVLP painting one day.







xp

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Yes, that is a Swan pump. Nothing Kellogg about it anymore. I think you're looking at 8cfm rather than 18. There should be a rubber PCV valve type arrangement on the top, rear of the crankcase. It should have a glass marble in it to provide crankcase ventilation, or the cap itself may be vented. It's a single stage pump so don't set it up fro any more than about 110-120psi at cutoff.

 

[xp190]

Yes, the cap is vented with a valve in it, and the pressure switch is set to 125 PSI cutoff at the factory, the diagram and all info is still there. How about the belt tension? How tight should it be?
8 cfm only, I suppose if it's not enough I could put a different pump on it.

xp

 

[sld961]

Yes, the cap is vented with a valve in it, and the pressure switch is set to 125 PSI cutoff at the factory, the diagram and all info is still there. How about the belt tension? How tight should it be?
8 cfm only, I suppose if it's not enough I could put a different pump on it.

xp

You would need a new motor too to get that kind of cfm. I get about 12cfm out of my 3hp setup that I compiled. I'd say that's about all you'd get from 3hp. You're in the 5hp range for 18cfm. It's going to take a long time to fill up that tank with 3hp.

 

[xp190]

12 cfm would be great, but a motor swap sounds like a good upgrade down the road. Ill know once i get this thing running,m it could be a few more days before that happens. Im just finishing hooking up electricity to my garage. Big job, 190' run of 2/0 in a conduit, but its in the ground now, big step forward.

 

[vandalthree]

Keep in mind that a more powerful motor will not create more air delivery without also increasing the drive pulley diameter to spin the pump faster. A good rule of thumb for what a given motor can deliver with the proper drive ratio is 3-4 cfm per hp.
As for belt tension, v belts don't need to be very tight. It looks like a standard slotted mounting hole pattern to adjust tension - just loosen the bolts and pull on the motor/pump to snug the belts up. I've observed that when ideal belt tension is achieved the slack side of the belt will have no "flapping" it will track perfectly smooth. That's really what you're looking for.

 

[bsaint]

Wouldn't hurt to invest in an inexpensive belt guard too.

 

[xp190]

Thanks for all the info, these are all great ideas I will keep in mind once I see how this thing runs, which looks like it should happen tomorrow. I have some fresh oil for the pump, and I'm about to wire this beast up and fire her up. I hope the pressure switch is fine. A belt guard is definitely a good idea. The motor has a few grease ******* that will get some fresh grease tomorrow. I'm also planning to disassemble the whole thing and pressure wash the tank, and clean up the pump.
I will make a note of the pulleys, I didn't know exactly how a more powerful motor would benefit me, but it's starting to come together now.

I have some new fittings that will let me connect up some air tools, nothing fancy yet, but I am planning to have something that will cool the air and get rid of water so I can do some spray painting.

xp

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

A quick bit of advice. Make sure the Air Receiver is is clean. Nothing will cause you more problems then pumping swarf, old oil, PTFE tape and rusty water into you air tools. also dont take the PRV (if it has one) off and blank it. It is dangerous as I have seen a few Dodge City compressors that were time bombs.

 

[xp190]

Howdy gents

I got the compressor fired up today. It was a bit tense since I never owned such a piece of machinery and wasn't sure what to expect.

The motor took a few minutes to figure out the wiring, but these things are fairly generic it seems. The belts need to be tensioned a bit more, but everything worked great. First I turned on just the motor itself, it spun up instantly and hummed away. I checked to make sure the direction is right, and then put the belts on. I gotta say I expected this thing to be a lot louder, but it's not too bad at all. My oilless 13 gal husy is much louder. The unloader seemed to leak a bit at first, but once pressure built up, it sealed right and didn't give any more problems, I guess that's how these things work. I stopped the motor a couple of times while the compressor built up pressure for the first time and watched for any leaks, but I didn't find any. The tank is sound, the pump is sound, and so is the motor, good buy overall. I then hooked up a few basic tools and gave them a whirl, moist clean air came out, and lots of it. I think it took longer to drain the tank than to fill it up. I have a feeling this machine will do what I need it to.
I shut her down, and drained any water, a bit came out, fairly dirty, but I expected as much, this thing has been sitting after all.

The cut in pressure is 90 psi, and the cut out is 120, spot on. There is a PRV, but I'm not sure how to test it. Pressure switch seems to work well also, although it was a bit small for the wires I used, but I managed ok.

Big thank you for all the advice and words of wisdom. Next project is to get some black iron pipe to cool the air and get the water out.

Cheers!

xp

 

[md21722]

Good deal. The thing to watch for is pressure loss through your air line to the tool. To measure put a gauge in a T at the tool. It should read 90 with the tool running. Any less and you're robbing yourself tool power. Adjust regulator as necessary. 110/135 is a good setting for single stage setup if you can get it.

 

[xp190]

The pressure switch can be adjusted so I may crank it up a bit. My setup at the moment is rather minimal so I have no means to tell what the pressure is at the tool, but I will build up to that stage with time, right now I'm super glad everything works, this has been an addition I had in my mind for a very long time.

xp

 

[sberry]

You don't really need to know the pressure at tool, if it works its good.

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

I can run through how to test your PRV no problem. If you post a quick pic I will tell you what my company charges $120 for, and it only takes about 5 mins. If you dont havbe the kit send me a PM and I will give you one for free, calibrated by myself!!

 

[xp190]

A bit of an update.
I started using the compressor a bit, and I noticed that the check valve was getting stuck open after the pump quit, I figure a good look over and some fresh paint would help things quite a bit, so I took off the pump and motor, and stripped the few ugly layers of paint off, in the process I disassembled the whole thing, and when I rolled the tank over, it make a sound like it was half full of rocks. I tried to get the extra 2" ports open, but I don't have a wrench big enough, or they are way too stuck, so I hung the tank vertically, and proceeded to fill it with water from the top and drain it out the bottom through a smaller port, Boy a lot of rust came out, and it kept on going and going. Eventually I got it all out, but the amount was a bit scary.
I am now considering doing a pressure test, where you fill it with water and use a pressure washer to pump it up to twice it's working pressure to have some kind of peace of mind that this thing won't blow up.

Going back to the check valve, it was getting stuck because of rust, I cleaned it up, it'll be fine, the PRV got stuck on me once too, but it was probably because of the paint I was stripping off of the tank, so I'll soak it and clean it up.

But I gotta say this tank has me worried, I had it up to 120psi, and I plan to put the air compressor outside the garage eventually, but it won't be for another year or so, maybe in the meantime I will keep an eye out for another tank.

xp

 

[Schurkey]

You don't really need to know the pressure at tool, if it works its good.

The problem is that folks think their air tools are working good, and it isn't until they test the pressure at the tool, with the tool running, that they figure out all their tools have about half or 2/3 the power they should have.

When the air tool genuinely has 90 psi while running, they're amazed. This often requires a bunch more than that in the tank to get 90 at the tool, with the tool running.

In most cases, it just can't be done with a single-stage air compressor that tops out at 125 psi, and drops from there. Some folks with single-stage compressors never get full-power from their air tools.

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

A bit of an update.
I started using the compressor a bit, and I noticed that the check valve was getting stuck open after the pump quit, I figure a good look over and some fresh paint would help things quite a bit, so I took off the pump and motor, and stripped the few ugly layers of paint off, in the process I disassembled the whole thing, and when I rolled the tank over, it make a sound like it was half full of rocks. I tried to get the extra 2" ports open, but I don't have a wrench big enough, or they are way too stuck, so I hung the tank vertically, and proceeded to fill it with water from the top and drain it out the bottom through a smaller port, Boy a lot of rust came out, and it kept on going and going. Eventually I got it all out, but the amount was a bit scary.
I am now considering doing a pressure test, where you fill it with water and use a pressure washer to pump it up to twice it's working pressure to have some kind of peace of mind that this thing won't blow up.

Going back to the check valve, it was getting stuck because of rust, I cleaned it up, it'll be fine, the PRV got stuck on me once too, but it was probably because of the paint I was stripping off of the tank, so I'll soak it and clean it up.

But I gotta say this tank has me worried, I had it up to 120psi, and I plan to put the air compressor outside the garage eventually, but it won't be for another year or so, maybe in the meantime I will keep an eye out for another tank.

xp

Hydrostatic Pressure tests are normally conducted at 1.5X the MWP. Air receivers never fail this test ever! I have been pressure testing for 20 years+ and have never had a tank fail. They are normally MPI'd or DPI'd depending on material, Ultra Sonic Wall Thickness tested, then pressure tested. I have only had one tank fail in all that time and that was a Nitrogen test where there was a tiny bubble leakage through a weld that didn't show up as a crack when MPI'd. Hydro testing will just stretch the material. Trust me, It will probable be fine. If you really want to be certain, if you have a Boroscope or can borrow one look at the seam welds inside. If you see a perfect line of rust in a straight line around the weld, that is of concern. If not dont worry. It will be fine I promise you. Source: 20 years Pressure Testing, SNT II MPI Tech.

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

A bit of an update.
I started using the compressor a bit, and I noticed that the check valve was getting stuck open after the pump quit, I figure a good look over and some fresh paint would help things quite a bit, so I took off the pump and motor, and stripped the few ugly layers of paint off, in the process I disassembled the whole thing, and when I rolled the tank over, it make a sound like it was half full of rocks. I tried to get the extra 2" ports open, but I don't have a wrench big enough, or they are way too stuck, so I hung the tank vertically, and proceeded to fill it with water from the top and drain it out the bottom through a smaller port, Boy a lot of rust came out, and it kept on going and going. Eventually I got it all out, but the amount was a bit scary.
I am now considering doing a pressure test, where you fill it with water and use a pressure washer to pump it up to twice it's working pressure to have some kind of peace of mind that this thing won't blow up.

Going back to the check valve, it was getting stuck because of rust, I cleaned it up, it'll be fine, the PRV got stuck on me once too, but it was probably because of the paint I was stripping off of the tank, so I'll soak it and clean it up.

But I gotta say this tank has me worried, I had it up to 120psi, and I plan to put the air compressor outside the garage eventually, but it won't be for another year or so, maybe in the meantime I will keep an eye out for another tank.

xp

Soaking the PRV wont help. It will be a soft seater as we call them. Nozzle will be brass and disc viton, rubber or polyeurothene. It just needs dismantled, inspected and cleaned probable. The check will be the same except if it has shuttle seals. These need replace, however it is normally cheaper to replace the whole valve.

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

Howdy gents

I got the compressor fired up today. It was a bit tense since I never owned such a piece of machinery and wasn't sure what to expect.

The motor took a few minutes to figure out the wiring, but these things are fairly generic it seems. The belts need to be tensioned a bit more, but everything worked great. First I turned on just the motor itself, it spun up instantly and hummed away. I checked to make sure the direction is right, and then put the belts on. I gotta say I expected this thing to be a lot louder, but it's not too bad at all. My oilless 13 gal husy is much louder. The unloader seemed to leak a bit at first, but once pressure built up, it sealed right and didn't give any more problems, I guess that's how these things work. I stopped the motor a couple of times while the compressor built up pressure for the first time and watched for any leaks, but I didn't find any. The tank is sound, the pump is sound, and so is the motor, good buy overall. I then hooked up a few basic tools and gave them a whirl, moist clean air came out, and lots of it. I think it took longer to drain the tank than to fill it up. I have a feeling this machine will do what I need it to.
I shut her down, and drained any water, a bit came out, fairly dirty, but I expected as much, this thing has been sitting after all.

The cut in pressure is 90 psi, and the cut out is 120, spot on. There is a PRV, but I'm not sure how to test it. Pressure switch seems to work well also, although it was a bit small for the wires I used, but I managed ok.

Big thank you for all the advice and words of wisdom. Next project is to get some black iron pipe to cool the air and get the water out.

Cheers!

xp

Please see pics: Standard Air receiver PRV: Body, Viton seat, Brass Nozle and then spring and spindle assemble. If you need anymore help or advice I would be more than happy to help.

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

The problem is that folks think their air tools are working good, and it isn't until they test the pressure at the tool, with the tool running, that they figure out all their tools have about half or 2/3 the power they should have.

When the air tool genuinely has 90 psi while running, they're amazed. This often requires a bunch more than that in the tank to get 90 at the tool, with the tool running.

In most cases, it just can't be done with a single-stage air compressor that tops out at 125 psi, and drops from there. Some folks with single-stage compressors never get full-power from their air tools.

Very true,

It is all to do with the size of the Air Receiver and the piping or hoses running to the tool. You will never get optimum performance if you are using an 1/8'' or 1/4'' Air Suzie. Change it to a 3/4" Crowsfoot or PCL on a 2500L A/R and the difference is unreal. Escpecially with impact wrenches.

 

[xp190]

Thanks a lot for the all the help ABZ

The PRV on this air compressor has a seal on it, so I'm not sure how far I can dismantle it without breaking that seal.
I'll clean it up as best as I can, and flush out any rust that might have gotten into it.
I am considering replacing it with something more modern like what you showed above.

xp

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

Thanks a lot for the all the help ABZ

The PRV on this air compressor has a seal on it, so I'm not sure how far I can dismantle it without breaking that seal.
I'll clean it up as best as I can, and flush out any rust that might have gotten into it.
I am considering replacing it with something more modern like what you showed above.

xp

No problem, happy to help. If you get stuck just send me a PM.

 

[md21722]

Thanks a lot for the all the help ABZ

The PRV on this air compressor has a seal on it, so I'm not sure how far I can dismantle it without breaking that seal.
I'll clean it up as best as I can, and flush out any rust that might have gotten into it.
I am considering replacing it with something more modern like what you showed above.

xp

You can buy them for about $5.

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

You can buy them for about $5.

That is super cheap. If you can get them for $5 I will buy 1000 of them right now.

The Valve I showed you in the pic of costs me $69 plus shipping and import. That is when I buy over 500 of them at a time! It also costs me a further $28 Dollars an hour for a valve technician to calibrate, body test and leakage test them.

 

[md21722]

For a single stage pump a 1/4" NPT 150 PSI valve is appropriate,

https://www.zoro.com/control-devices-air-safety-valve-14-in-inlet-150-psi-st25-1a150/i/G2811033/

If high temperature ratings, larger flows were involved then the cost would starting climbing.

You can probably buy them at Home Depot or Lowe's in the compressor/ air tools isle too.

 

[Schurkey]

I bought a replacement pressure-relief valve for the intercooler of my 2-stage compressor a few months ago. 65 or 75 PSI, with shipping from a dealer known to be high priced = $22.

Yeah, I got taken. This is a small-body deal, not like the monster shown in post 19.

 

[xp190]

That $5 valve looks great, thanks for the link.

Here is a progress pic of the restoration.



Stripped the old paint, wire brushed the rest off, sanded a bit, but this was very slow, so gave up, then used two other small compressors jointed together and an LVLP gun to spray it. Not the greatest paint job, but for a first try I think it's fine. This weekend I will reassemble it and start planning a water separator.

The paint I used is rustoleum sold through TSC as implement paint, no primer, it goes straight on metal, it was a bit thick at first, so I thinned it out with acetone, that gave much better results.

xp

 

[xp190]

I got the compressor back together, but it looks like the safety valve started letting go before it reaches 120psi. The label on the valve says it's set for 125, I guess the spring got weak. The valve blowing off causes the compressor to run non-stop.

Does anyone know if there is a canadian distributor of safety valves? I was able to get one for 200psi, but I'd prefer to match the original which is set for 125psi.

xp

 

[md21722]

I would not get hung up on 125 psi unless the tank is only rated for 125 psi. Try Home Depot or Lowe's, Princess Auto, Amazon, or any place that sells compressors. A local compressor dealer in your area should have something like this too.

Canadian Amazon doesn't seem to have the same brands.

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000HEIU10/?tag=atomicindus04-20