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A lost age; will we see it again?

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Diesel_Crawler

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This recently came up in my subscription box on youtube. It almost brought a tear to my eye. I wonder if we will ever see such things ever come back to north America.

This documentary tooks a look back at Allis-Chalmers and what they came to represent as an industry in the State of Wisconsin and the United states. Shows what has become of some of the factory buildings. Get a first hand account of the work done at the factory as some of the workmen are interviewed.


 
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Milehighxr

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

Good paying factory jobs are gone from this country forever. Although I am hearing that some manufacturing is coming back to the states, because it is now cost competitive with the Chinese. But still, these jobs only pay 12-18 an hour tops, and none of the cushy benefits the UAW folks got back in the day. Most kids today look at that say its not enough for a "dirty" job. Factories today are quite clean, and even relatively quiet compared to 20yrs ago, let alone 50 yrs ago.
 

Bronson

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

That was interesting, but sad. I have a soft spot for A-C. When I was a young Man, I spent thousands of hours operating an all-terrain A-C forklift in the heavy construction business. I loved that old forklift, it was a peach!:thumbup:
 

Matt M PA

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

Sad indeed.

I hope manufacturing will come back the states. I'm amazed these days...it seems like every high school grad needs a big college degree. We still need plumbers, electricians, locksmiths, etc. No shame with a trade, IMO.
 

bobcatdan

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

The small job shops seem to be doing well around here, but there will never be another A-C.
 

dittle fart around

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

I started working at a Fisher Body plant in Pontiac Michigan. It was an old building then with end cut wooden block floors and very little light outside of the actual line area. Now I'm working at the Western Star truck plant in Portland Oregon. It's lite better than Fisher Body and has a few robots doing welding. Starting pay at the UAW in 1976 was 10 bucks an hour. Starting pay at Western Star in 2011 is 12 bucks topping out at 24. You can make 12 bucks as a isle wanderer at Home Depot. There were kids that started in Portland when I did and quit within a week when they saw how much work there was. My son makes as much sometimes more per week waiting tables at Applebee's.
Journeymen Electricians make 40 bucks an hour in our area. Work is slow and an apprenticeship takes 5 years to complete. Most high school grads would rather spend 5 years in college than 5 years learning a trade.
 

1984Datsun

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

Good paying factory jobs are gone from this country forever. Although I am hearing that some manufacturing is coming back to the states, because it is now cost competitive with the Chinese. But still, these jobs only pay 12-18 an hour tops, and none of the cushy benefits the UAW folks got back in the day. Most kids today look at that say its not enough for a "dirty" job. Factories today are quite clean, and even relatively quiet compared to 20yrs ago, let alone 50 yrs ago.

Lol, you haven't worked in the factory that I've been working in.

Ain't that clean, and certainly ain't quiet with all of the presses running, and the compressors cycling all the time. Probably around 75-85 db's in there.

Products coming out of there, however, are very well made. Doesn't pay the best, but these days, you're lucky to find any work.

Not all factories are as clean as you're trying to make them sound.

The floor we walk on has this metal dust engrained into it from the machining, and then the forklifts' rubber tires force it into the concrete... rub the floor with your hand, and it'll turn black.
 

RRmech

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

There will ALWAYS be a need for automobile mechanics, plumbers, HVAC techs, aircraft and train mechanics, medical equipment techs, computer techs, etc.
But pension and medical benefits in many instances, seemed to have gone the way of the Dodo bird?

Steve
 

Falcon67

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

>Most kids today look at that say its not enough for a "dirty" job.

Some of them kids may need to learn how it is to eat ham sandwiches without the ham.
 
OP
D

Diesel_Crawler

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

I see in this video alot of stuff from when I was young. Long days and nights doing hard work and getting dirty, But I always found a joy in doing it. To me coming home to a place I called my own which was warm and dry and had food in the fridge was a great pay off, If there was extra then treat yourself but never deprive yourself of the basic standard of living. Now a days this is not even close enough for the new generation, they want huge houses new cars every 3 years and only work 8-5 mon-friday and have 4 weeks payed vacation.

But the other thing that really bothers me is that, alot of kids think that only dumb people who can't go to university go into trades, This is so very very wrong. I would say that you have to be a decently smart person to become a machinist or electrician or plumber or carpenter and so on. Again though problems arise, Since not alot of people will do trades the people that do want an outlandish wage for which to do there trade. Making a living just is not enough for people anymore I guess.

I don't not I guess I am rambling on now, Just when they said they took great pride in there work it kinda made me think. Getting some one to work for you that will actually show up on time let alone work is getting hard to come by...man how things have gotten.
 

bigdav160

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

Come south young man. The USA is still the largest manufacture in the world. It just has moved to a more business friendly environment.

Is it still the same?
No of course not.
The total number of manufacturing jobs has gone down but it is due to efficiencies in the process.
 

theoldwizard1

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The large scale "we do it all" manufacturing is certainly gone for ever. The Ford Rogue complex is still there, but Ford sold off everything except the engine plant and the assembly plant. Other companies have bought some of the old business.

Ford is also completely out of the glass business (they were once a major supplier for commercial building glass) and the electronics business. They tried to outsource seating but that is now back in house.

I was quite surprised that Ford committed to building the next gen Fusion/MkZ in the US IF necessary (the current plant in Mexico is maxed out and there is spare capacity at the Mustang plant in Flat Rock).

Ford will also be building a new van in the US (the EU Transit). The Econoline van will be dropped (E350/450 stripped chassis will still be available), but to (partially) replace that volume, Ford is moving heavy duty truck (F650/750) from Mexico to US.

Work rules have been relaxed and there are a lot less skilled trades around Ford.

Overall, some pluses, some minuses. :thumbup:

Shocked about the wages at Western Star !! :shocking:
 
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darkk

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

But still, these jobs only pay 12-18 an hour tops, and none of the cushy benefits the UAW folks got back in the day. Most kids today look at that say its not enough for a "dirty" job.
The alternative is....would you like fries with that sir? Lots of uneducated people in the states.
 

jjjrmx5

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

. But still, these jobs only pay 12-18 an hour tops, and none of the cushy benefits the UAW folks got back in the day.

So $24,000 a year to $36,000 a year for a salary is not enough?
Hmmmm.
Plus overtime and bonuses.
Hmmmm.

Hourly rate x 2000 hrs a yr. ( 50 wks x 40 hrs a week+ 2 weeks vacation not factored in but given ) + benefits and other perks factored in. Math does not lie.

Hmmmmmmmm..

:)
 
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Mr.Mix

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As a recent college graduate I can honestly say that if I were to do it all over again I would certainly look into the skilled trades (electrician/auto tech). When I was in high school it was taught that you either go to college and subsequently rack up deadly loans, or face the real world of terrible beginner jobs. In retrospect a better idea would be the teachers and admin displaying all options on the table rather than the one-for-all recipe they subscribed to.

During school I did work at a small time garage doing basic tech work and looking back I feel it felt so much more rewarding than the work I do now (graphic design). Getting your hands dirty and putting in an honest days work sounds cliche but it is rooted in complete truth. Sitting all day is certainly not all it is cracked up to be.

Falcon67 and Milehighxr are right, many kids look at working with your hands and doing a tough job as something to look down on, which it is not.
 

Milehighxr

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

Lol, you haven't worked in the factory that I've been working in.

Ain't that clean, and certainly ain't quiet with all of the presses running, and the compressors cycling all the time. Probably around 75-85 db's in there.

Products coming out of there, however, are very well made. Doesn't pay the best, but these days, you're lucky to find any work.

Not all factories are as clean as you're trying to make them sound.

The floor we walk on has this metal dust engrained into it from the machining, and then the forklifts' rubber tires force it into the concrete... rub the floor with your hand, and it'll turn black.

I say clean and quiet as compared to the old days. I'm a CNC machinist, and most of the shops I've in are cleaner than what you describe. As for noise, if they're quieter than your shop, it's still loud enough that I need ear plugs.
 

Milehighxr

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Re: A lost age, well we see it again?

The alternative is....would you like fries with that sir? Lots of uneducated people in the states.

Well that's a huge part of the problem now isn't it? We're not gonna have much of an economy if it is built on "service" jobs like McDs. Auto techs can make damn good money, but today need to be even smarter than they were 40 yrs ago. And those places I'm sure are cleaner than back then too.

So $24,000 a year to $36,000 a year for a salary is not enough?
Hmmmm.
Plus overtime and bonuses.
Hmmmm.

Hourly rate x 2000 hrs a yr. ( 50 wks x 40 hrs a week+ 2 weeks vacation not factored in but given ) + benefits and other perks factored in. Math does not lie.

Hmmmmmmmm..

:)

No it isn't if you want to raise a family, in a decent home, while spending enough time with the kids to keep them from shooting up a school yard. At $23+ with no hope for OT, and ZERO benefits, my wife and i barely scrape by on one income. But we are satisfied in the knowledge we are raising well adjusted kids. I haven't had a raise since 09, and have seen my "real" income drop by 10% or more every year since, just in the loss of OT, and benefits.

Of course on the other side of that, in my opinion $18.00 is too much for essentially an unskilled button pusher that has no pride in their work. $29.00 was way too much for someone that was hanging a door on car in my opinion too. Is it physically demanding, sure, probably more so than programming CNCs, and making prototype parts. But if we use those old scales, I should have been making $40.00 an hour for the last 3 yrs, or so. I know that will never happen unless I go into management, which, one won't happen where I'm at now, and 2 I don't want anyhow. So I make due with what I have.

I see in this video alot of stuff from when I was young. Long days and nights doing hard work and getting dirty, But I always found a joy in doing it. To me coming home to a place I called my own which was warm and dry and had food in the fridge was a great pay off, If there was extra then treat yourself but never deprive yourself of the basic standard of living. Now a days this is not even close enough for the new generation, they want huge houses new cars every 3 years and only work 8-5 mon-friday and have 4 weeks payed vacation.

But the other thing that really bothers me is that, alot of kids think that only dumb people who can't go to university go into trades, This is so very very wrong. I would say that you have to be a decently smart person to become a machinist or electrician or plumber or carpenter and so on. Again though problems arise, Since not alot of people will do trades the people that do want an outlandish wage for which to do there trade. Making a living just is not enough for people anymore I guess.

I don't not I guess I am rambling on now, Just when they said they took great pride in there work it kinda made me think. Getting some one to work for you that will actually show up on time let alone work is getting hard to come by...man how things have gotten.

Almost sounds like supply and demand, but I know that isn't the case. If it were I'd be able to go to any shop as a CNC guy and make $40.00 base rate, cuz remember there is a shortage of machinists, and CNC machinists too. Reality is that this "shortage" does not exist, and around here, there isn't a single shop that's gonna pay anyone much more than $24.00 an hour regardless of how much skills or experience they have.

I personally don't want ANY of the new cars, don't like the looks, and there's too much nanny-nazi gizmos driving up the cost of purchase and repair anyhow. Huge house, hell now costs too much to heat and cool what i have now. I used to be able to get 4weeks plus off, hell I would've had 6 weeks in 2011, but my former employer went under due to bad management, and the higher ups ******* off long time customers. Now I count myself lucky to have a job I like, with a company that I "fit in " with, while making the same base wage as in 09. My wife thinks our kids should go to college, and I keep telling her hell no, they are not gonna start their adult lives with piles of debt to take a non-existent job that can be outsourced anyhow. I tell her they're gonna be mechanics, or plumbers or some other skilled trade that absolutely cannot be outsourced. Now I'm rambling incoherently...
 

Painter123

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I'm in construction and have been for the better part of 25 years

and I can say if you come to Las Vegas your job Will/Has been outsoursed

We have the highest % of illegeals in the nation aside from Cali

Unless you're Union a good wage here is 11$ an hour, You supply all tools and your own transportation and you need usually 10+ experience, bilingual a major + too

I really thought "Screw school, there's always a job for me in construction."

but I haven't worked in over a year now cause at 11$ an hour I think I'd rather go make fries

If I was to do it all over again well, I don't know what I'd do but construction would not be my first choice
 

MrDomino

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A lot of what gives the Chinese the edge is not only cheap labor but HUGE subsidies from the government to retool, etc in addition to their complete disregard for the environment. They're headed towards a bubble that'll make 2008 in the US look like a tiny blip and the workers are starting to get pissed about their work environments which means that massive reforms are only a matter of time.
 

Keep

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Unfortunately as long as there are greedy Corporations and greedy Unions no, we will not see anything like that again.

That is, unless both of those groups pull their heads out of their asses. Well we can all guess if that will happen.
 

Burn1

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Unfortunately as long as there are greedy Corporations and greedy Unions no, we will not see anything like that again.

That is, unless both of those groups pull their heads out of their asses. Well we can all guess if that will happen.

Don't blame greedy corporations. Their stockholders demand a return on investment. The smart ones are just using every advantage made available.

Change the rules/playbook and change for the positive regarding manufacturing, software development and other heavy overseas outsourced jobs will start happening.

Corporations will not police themselves as their shareholders/investors will not allow it.
 

Milehighxr

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Yeah, there used to be a video that had that segment preceded by how the same operation is handled here in the US. It is a very stark contrast...
 

MD11

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This recently came up in my subscription box on youtube. It almost brought a tear to my eye. I wonder if we will ever see such things ever come back to north America.

This documentary tooks a look back at Allis-Chalmers and what they came to represent as an industry in the State of Wisconsin and the United states. Shows what has become of some of the factory buildings. Get a first hand account of the work done at the factory as some of the workmen are interviewed.




All that replaced by Walmart cashier jobs and McDonnalds manager jobs...

Welcome to the "service economy" and the ever rising cost of living, with the ever decreasing wage.
 
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Has anyone looked at local colleges or tech schools lately? Locally most have either completely cut or drastically reduced the size of their industrial programs. I work at a place where they do industrial electronic repairs (plcs, servo motors, etc etc down to board level repairs if it is cheaper than replacing the board) and we're looking to expand to hydraulic repairs. It's been a pain in the *** to find classes on hydraulic and pneumatice repairs, diagnosis and theory. It doesn't help when no one is willing to teach anymore. Whatever happened to a good old fashioned apprenticeship? You can puke back what a book says all da and have ZERO capability. I've seen it for years since they brought NTI/UTI to the area. It's so bad if you have them on your application places will automatically dismiss you beause they've dealt with hundreds of kids who have no ability to perform the task.
 
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