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A man & his Snap On box

Borrego

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Mar 15, 2009
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451
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San Fernando Valley
In the middle of my work day at a large apartment bulding and saw something peculiar. I see a guy, early to mid 50s standing next to a nice Snap On 12 drawer bottom chest. 5 of the drawers are out of it and it is at the front door of his apartment. Probably 5' - 6' long. I had to walk that way anyway and I asked him, "Is it coming or going?" He tells me, "I was laid off this morning, it is coming inside." There is no way this guy is getting that monster over the threshhold and into his apartment. I tell him, "Hold on, I'll be back in a minute." I came back and helped him get it into his apartment, only took a minute or so. I'm leaving and he tells me, "One hell of a way to start your week. Work for a few hours and then get laid off. Do you know where the unemployment office is?"
Not the sort of thing I would wish upon anyone. Had to go and have no idea what kind of mechanic he was....... If he lived on the second floor, I do not think there was any way he could have gotten that box up those stairs......
 
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furbis

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Jul 23, 2009
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Hudson, Colorado
good for you for stopping to help. hopefully he finds a new job quickly and didn't owe the snap on guy a ton of money for the box and the tools.
 

buick64203

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Jan 25, 2010
Messages
184
Seems more and more people I talk to are either laid off or are going to be.

Ironically, I was just laid off from Snap On.
 

Toolhorder

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Could be worse, he could have been in a job without any "real" trade like sales or some office job. At least he can wrench on the side until he finds a shop.
 

84bimmer

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Lawrence, KS
But I always see all these commercials on tv for those fancy schools like UTI and WYOTECH, claiming that "the demand for techs is SO high." Real quote from "UTI instructor": "There's such a high demand for techs out there. ITS CRAZY!!!"
I call BS, maybe a high demand for **** paying jobs.

I'm always hearing about techs being laid off lately. Also I hear shops are having to cut cost and that means fewer employees. Sure, a quality education helps, but does it pay for itself? I've heard these schools range from 60-120K. I frequently look in the local (KC area) for tech positions. All lube chain store jobs.

I am an auto tech student at a community college. I'm also a laid off worker (from another field), fortunately the state is paying me to go to school. More than half the kids I goto school with can't live without a job. But about half of them can't find a job, and the ones that do work, most make around $8/hr (some support families on these wages?), some of them are real sharp too. I make more on unemployment than anyone I know at school that works. What ******' gives? I am a little worried this trade is going into the ******* somehow. I also have a family to support, not possible on these low wages. I'm always at the top of my classes, but I'm wondering if I will be able to make more working than on unemployment.
 

84bimmer

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a few years a go UTI was only 16k...my bet is its lower than that today.

I didn't really believe that, but wasn't sure. Multiple kids at school that both said they went to or were going to go to these schools said that. But, none of these guys were worth a **** around any vehicle. However, I did hear similar figures from a few different individuals.

I've never heard of any tuition going down in cost, that **** just don't happen man.
 

not-required

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Maui, Hawaii
I know that this past year when I was planning on going to Wyotech Sacramento it was going to cost me a little over 30k just for schooling (9 months w/ 3 month business class) not including housing since I'm from hawaii.

It was too much and I decided to go to a community college and take their auto program.
 

Coolabah

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2nd Floor, 3rd on the Right,Narooma, Australia
I know that this past year when I was planning on going to Wyotech Sacramento it was going to cost me a little over 30k just for schooling (9 months w/ 3 month business class) not including housing since I'm from hawaii.

It was too much and I decided to go to a community college and take their auto program.

WOW !! how can anyone afford that ??? BTW, welcome to GJ - great first post :thumbup:
 

not-required

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Yea I really didn't want my parents to pay that much money knowing that they have to put my brother through college soon. And I also will be able to get the same degree (AAS) at the community college it will just take longer.

Thanks for the welcome. I hope to learn a lot here.

Mahalo
 

Toolhorder

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I know that this past year when I was planning on going to Wyotech Sacramento it was going to cost me a little over 30k just for schooling (9 months w/ 3 month business class) not including housing since I'm from hawaii.

It was too much and I decided to go to a community college and take their auto program.

I'm in Sacramento and I went to community college instead too. The problem with living here is there is a UTI and Wyotech here so you get a constant influx of new techs entering the local market which makes jobs scarce in the auto business.
What island you on? I grew up on Hickam AFB in Oahu.
 

not-required

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I'm in Sacramento and I went to community college instead too. The problem with living here is there is a UTI and Wyotech here so you get a constant influx of new techs entering the local market which makes jobs scarce in the auto business.
What island you on? I grew up on Hickam AFB in Oahu.

I'm on Maui, born and raised. I talked to my friend about two days ago that I was supposed to so to Wyotech with and I asked him if he honestly thought that going there was worth the money. He told me "yea, I honestly do. I have learned so much." Im sure he learned a lot but I think that after my two years at the CC that I will learn just about the same amount for a lot less money.
 

84bimmer

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Lawrence, KS
I'm on Maui, born and raised. I talked to my friend about two days ago that I was supposed to so to Wyotech with and I asked him if he honestly thought that going there was worth the money. He told me "yea, I honestly do. I have learned so much." Im sure he learned a lot but I think that after my two years at the CC that I will learn just about the same amount for a lot less money.

I hope that the school you go to is good. My school *****. We can't keep any good teachers, or they just get complacent and lose focus. I'm not happy with it, but there aren't any other options, and I'm almost done. One of my classes this semester is Intro to Diesel. I haven't learned a thing I didn't know already, and I don't know much about diesels. New teacher this semester, SUPRISE, he's never worked on a diesel either. The whole class is completely lost. I'm pissed and I want my money back. Any suggestions on that?
 

mrholeshot

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To the OP, Props to you for stopping to help. There is getting to be a shortage of random acts of kindness
 

Lt CHEG

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Upstate NY
Agreed, props to the OP for giving a hand. I'm Catholic not Hindi so I don't believe in any sort of formal Karma system but I do believe that people who are positive and helpful to others tend to receive more positive things in return, even if it's just feeling good about yourself.

As for the seeming decline in the auto repair profession, I think the problem really comes down to the market. Despite what the government says the economy is still in a very precarious position. The upward pressure on pricing for consumer items since all of the Fed's Quantitative Easing programs is very real. Luxury items may be cheaper than they've been in some time, but that is more than made up for with the increase in price of consumer staples like food, fuel and clothing. This has made people put off auto repairs as long as possible, and even letting things remain broken as long as they can still get to work with their vehicles. So that means that the demand for auto repair services is down. Combine that with the willingness of new techs to work for peanuts and you get a real downward pressure on pricing of labor. Not to mention that cars are built way better than they used to be and they require far less maintenance in general (no more changing points and plugs every 20,000 miles for example). Add in the addition of all sorts of Jiffy Lube type businesses not only as independents but as part of Walmart, Sam's Club, etc who offer very limited maintenance only service for a rock bottom price who don't need to hire experiences techs and it's a perfect storm. I do think that things will get better in the auto field for one reason though, government regulation. The government is loading up our vehicles with so much emissions garbage that we don't need that cars are going to start going in the opposite direction and needing more service again than they were trending for. Add to that the fact that shade tree guys like myself really can't work on a lot of that kind of stuff simply because we don't have the fancy electronic equipment necessary to do so nor can we justify the expense of such equipment for the limited amount of use that they will see.
 

yogitech

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Orlando, FL
To the OP, It's a good thing you did:thumbup:. It's getting more and more rare to see that kind on willingness to help out. You've got my respect...

I'm located smack dab in the middle of UTI central. I work at a Ford dealer, and every UTI student we've had (too many to remember) has told me it cost them around $32K. None of them were any good, meaning they all had that "my parents are paying for school, so, screw it" type attitude. I think its overpriced, but, if you can go into it with the right mental thought then it should work out for you.
 

VegaS10

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Nov 29, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Fayetteville, NC
That was a great thing you did helping that guy out, props to you.

I'm about to graduate from the auto program at our local cc as well. We have a HUGE HUGE dropout rate, as most of the kids can't grasp the electrical. They all say "I grew up around cars, my dad was a mech., etc.". Yet hand them a multimeter and they run.

This industry is leaning VERY VERY heavily on electronics and computers now, if you can't learn it, you're gonna be stuck doing the basics for cheap.

Fortunatly from my old job, I made several contacts with the local shops, and the y are aware of my electronics/electrical background. They are all keepong an eye out for me once I graduate...hopefully all goes well.
 
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LEVE

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On the Willapa
We have a HUGE HUGE dropout rate, as most of the kids can't grasp the electrical.
When I went to a tech school in the 60's, 28 of us started an eleven quarter course of study. After eleven quarters only three finished. A little over two decades later I finished my Masters degree. The University I attended had an 8% graduation rate for students who'd started their degrees.
I'm about to graduate from the auto program at our local cc as well. We have a HUGE HUGE dropout rate, as most of the kids can't grasp the electrical. They all say "I grew up around cars, my dad was a mech., etc.". Yet hand them a multimeter and they run.

This industry is leaning VERY VERY heavily on electronics and computers now, if you can't learn it, you're gonna be stuck doing the basics for cheap.
That's the way of the world. These classes are sometimes being used to wash-out students that won't make it in the field. Too often these students aren't prepared for these classes. These students often rely on hands-on and less theoretical classes. That's where they've been successful in the past and it's guided their future. It's a tragic turn of events for many students.

If these students are like me, they're dyslexic, or worse. We were the "Shop guys" in High School. We sought out things like auto mechanics because classes were hands-on. It's not historically been a theoretical field. Students with these disabilities excel in hands-on classes. Education fails when they are forced to learn theory in a theoretical setting.

If I could point any fault out in the educational industry, it's teaching theoretical classes with little, or no, hands-on... real world experience to back up the theory and not understanding it's students. It's pretty tough to understand something you're not physically brain-wired to understand. Now the field is changing and though there's a lot of hands-on stuff, you'll never get to it if you can't learn the theory. You'll wash out. Electronics and computers can be taught and learned by those with these disabilities, I know, I did it on both ends of the spectrum, learning and teaching. But, it's not an easy row to hoe and most schools won't waste time on teaching these students.

It's even worse for For Profit (FP) schools that charge an arm and a leg for the similar tech oriented community college type programs. The student takes classes at these FP schools because they can get out in 9 months, or so, and have a trade. If they wash out 5 months into the program the FP school's already got their money. The student is stuck to pay the bill with no way to make the money to repay student loan. It can be a vicious circle for the student.
 

VegaS10

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58
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Fayetteville, NC
Our classes are very hands on.

We average 4-6 weeks in class, and 12-10 weeks in shop working on personal, shop, or other student's cars. It's a very good learning enviroment, but the shop time does not count as much as the class time.

We have similar graduation stats. We started the Fall of 2009 with roughly 60 people, and right now, only about 6 of us are on track to graduate. Physics and the electrical trip alot of the students up.

They really pound out the electrical, and we get an electrical class in 4 out of the 5 semesters (2 fall, 2 spring, and one summer). If you can't grasp electricity by then, well....
 

Nubbs

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Jan 26, 2011
Messages
10
OP....Good looking out and helping him move his box in to his house. My tool box is also sitting in my living room and I wish one of my neighbors would have helped me unload it when I got home.

On the other topic. I was a mechanic for over 20 years. I went to a community college and received a associates degree in auto technology. I am now back in school getting my Bachelors degree because without it I will never move up the ladder as high as i would like. For those of you that are thinking af going to UTI or Wyotech or any other for profit school. Take my hard earned advise and dont do it. The placement numbers they promise you are made up. In my last position I was a General Manager of a repair shop and every time I placed an add for a mechanic i would receive 50-75 resumes in the first 24 hours. For profit schools have board members and stock holders that want to make money. The way they do that is to get students in the doors and get them to graduate. They don't care if you get a job after that and they don't care about the education you get while there. $32k to learn to be a mechanic. You will pay less than half of that to get a degree from a community college and get a much better education.
For the younger kids looking to make it in the field. find a local shop looking for a oil monkey and floor sweeper. Take the job while going to school. Make friends with the old time mechanic in the shop and listen to everything he says. When you start to think you are smarter than him hit yourself over the head with the biggest wrench you can find because you are not smarter than him. I started in the industry sweeping floors and cleaning bathrooms and Im so great full for that!
 

wornoutoldman

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Conover WI "God's Country"
For the younger kids looking to make it in the field. find a local shop looking for a oil monkey and floor sweeper. Take the job while going to school. Make friends with the old time mechanic in the shop and listen to everything he says. When you start to think you are smarter than him hit yourself over the head with the biggest wrench you can find because you are not smarter than him. I started in the industry sweeping floors and cleaning bathrooms and Im so great full for that!

What Nubbs said :beer:
 

bushpilot

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Apr 10, 2006
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Tomball
I didn't really believe that, but wasn't sure. Multiple kids at school that both said they went to or were going to go to these schools said that. But, none of these guys were worth a **** around any vehicle. However, I did hear similar figures from a few different individuals.

I've never heard of any tuition going down in cost, that **** just don't happen man.

consider you TRAIN people in a market that is not hiring or is laying off...
youre prices SURE as hell arent gonna go up - you gotta do something
to get people IN & Trained <screw trying to find them a job...you worry about
that LATER>.

the 16k was their price - they couldnt believe i wanted to pay it, rather than finance it or accept government grants - i dont recall if tuition included housing (it may have) - they set you up w/ housing/room-mates and SAID they had work for you while going to "skool".
 

GarageEnvy

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Nov 17, 2009
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Fresno
First, thanks to the OP for taking a brief moment to help the guy out. Sometimes if your an optimist you look for that one positive moment in the day to focus on. You might have given him that.

Second, Ho Lee **** I had no idea these trade schools were that expensive. My 28 months of grad school was less than these trade schools. In fairness it was at a state university that was subsidized but still, wow.

Third, the layoffs are terrible. Yesterday I found out another one of my clients went belly up. The employees found out about it on facebook. Sure glad that stimulus package fixed everything.
 

TheGrooveking

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An alternate reality in a parallel universe.
A big thumbs up to the OP for helping, especially when you are laid off you feel helpless and that is when you need it the most.

On the mechanics school thing, one of my tech's sons wanted to go to Wyotech, it was going to cost him over $40K. I helped him do some research so he better understood that he would be going into to debt for his son, who after the training will have a problem finding a job in today's market. He directed his son to other schooling than mechanics.

TheGrooveking
 

ttpete

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Dearborn, MI
For the younger kids looking to make it in the field. find a local shop looking for a oil monkey and floor sweeper. Take the job while going to school. Make friends with the old time mechanic in the shop and listen to everything he says. When you start to think you are smarter than him hit yourself over the head with the biggest wrench you can find because you are not smarter than him. I started in the industry sweeping floors and cleaning bathrooms and Im so great full for that!

I got my education in a city technical high school. We had two shifts. One would be on academics, the other in shop all day. Every six weeks, we switched off. For senior year, there was a garage that was run just like a business with work orders and everything.

I started out running a lube rack at an independent sports car shop and worked into being a line mechanic. The shop became a VW dealership, and I had the opportunity to go to service schools. Spent a couple years in the Navy working with diesel propulsion. Afterwards, I worked in another VW dealership and an independent while I had a job app in at Ford Engineering. That came through, and I spent 35 years with the company doing prototype work and fabrication.

You're right, school is only part of the equation. You have to get your hands dirty and work with the tools to develop a practical working knowledge of the trade. And the best way is to start at the bottom, preferably with an independent shop. Dealerships tend to be more time oriented and regimented, and there's no room or time to learn effectively.

High schools today are run by people who believe that every student should go to college. So they eliminate all programs that would have given students a chance to learn a skilled trade. Those who don't go on to college are left with no way to better themselves unless they can afford commercial schooling.
 

colt zantop

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I graduated from wyotech and everything that has been said is TRUE. did I learn alot, YES, but was it worth it.....ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! JOB PLACEMENT *****! they send you leads to "bobs garage" for 8.00 an hour with no benifits. every dealership I applied to said "how much experience you have?" NONE...I JUST GRADUATED SCHOOL!!!! oh, you need 2-5 years experience. WTF!! so yeah...Im doing something completely different then what I went to school for and now I have a $30k piece of paper!
 

Reality Sucks

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Dec 16, 2010
Messages
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To the OP, Im sure he was thankful for the hand. And like most here, i went to a CC for my 2 year in Auto tech aswell, When I started there was 28 of us, and like someone said, most stated" ive been around this all my life" ill tell you i wouldnt let some of those guys work on my bicycle.

I was the first and only one to graduate from that class. And fresh out it was hard getting a job, even 6-7 years ago. Because shops werent sure what i knew. Im now ASE certified and a Virginia State inspector, Ive grown and am proud of it. School was difficult and for good reason. My teacher always told us. Anyone can be a mechanic, he wants technician's plain and simple. And the difference between the Two is this. A mechanic can replace parts, but a Technician Knows WHY he replaces those parts.

Along with the fact, that many guys that come to our shop either A) cant pass a drug test, or B) have there tools in a damn lunch box. Makes me sick to see, but i tell anyone go to school become the best at it and it will pay off. There are some employers who still reconize hard work and work ethic.
 

csargents1546

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Dec 20, 2009
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Westminster CO
Hats off to the op for stopping and help a person down on his luck.

On the school thing, mixed bag of nuts. Some students get lucky and land a decent job, unfortunatly most don't. I speak from experience, Just graduate UTI last year, got a good job at a ford dealership right out of school. Most of the other people I started with are struggling to find a job. Everyone thought I was nuts when I jumped on the first good job offer. They are the ones stuck doing oil changes at wally world and pep boy. THe schools do inflate their figures ALOT.
 
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I got my education in a city technical high school. We had two shifts. One would be on academics, the other in shop all day. Every six weeks, we switched off. For senior year, there was a garage that was run just like a business with work orders and everything.

I started out running a lube rack at an independent sports car shop and worked into being a line mechanic. The shop became a VW dealership, and I had the opportunity to go to service schools. Spent a couple years in the Navy working with diesel propulsion. Afterwards, I worked in another VW dealership and an independent while I had a job app in at Ford Engineering. That came through, and I spent 35 years with the company doing prototype work and fabrication.

You're right, school is only part of the equation. You have to get your hands dirty and work with the tools to develop a practical working knowledge of the trade. And the best way is to start at the bottom, preferably with an independent shop. Dealerships tend to be more time oriented and regimented, and there's no room or time to learn effectively.

High schools today are run by people who believe that every student should go to college. So they eliminate all programs that would have given students a chance to learn a skilled trade. Those who don't go on to college are left with no way to better themselves unless they can afford commercial schooling.
they should focus on getting kids into college , the freaks you work for in most dealers beat you down every day , pay rates are frozen and would you want your children flat rating at a dealer ?
not me , I am trying everything I can with my son , who is in second grade , to work hard in school , to avoid fighting for every nickel
 

84bimmer

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Oct 8, 2010
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293
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Lawrence, KS
I graduated from wyotech and everything that has been said is TRUE. did I learn alot, YES, but was it worth it.....ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! JOB PLACEMENT *****! they send you leads to "bobs garage" for 8.00 an hour with no benifits. every dealership I applied to said "how much experience you have?" NONE...I JUST GRADUATED SCHOOL!!!! oh, you need 2-5 years experience. WTF!! so yeah...Im doing something completely different then what I went to school for and now I have a $30k piece of paper!

Holy schit! Talk about ****.
 

pipsters

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Sep 1, 2010
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4,899
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USA
I think all the trades are like this. I graduated college and made less money than I did stocking groceries. But I was teaching doctors and lawyers how to learn to fly small aircraft. Makes no sense, until you realize my true compensation was those hours of experience. I don't think I even made $12,000 my first year out of college, that was in 2004. That is after spending around $80k between college and government licenses. Of course, as time goes on my income went up, I have to assume a mechanic is similar. You start out with the **** jobs and learn the ropes and over time make more money or go off on your own.
 

crewchief888

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NW indiana
I think all the trades are like this. I graduated college and made less money than I did stocking groceries. But I was teaching doctors and lawyers how to learn to fly small aircraft. Makes no sense, until you realize my true compensation was those hours of experience. I don't think I even made $12,000 my first year out of college, that was in 2004. That is after spending around $80k between college and government licenses. Of course, as time goes on my income went up, I have to assume a mechanic is similar. You start out with the **** jobs and learn the ropes and over time make more money or go off on your own.

seems to me every kid that comes out of a "tech school" with a big student loan, and a piece of paper, thinks he should make top dollar, without any real experience

sorry dude it dont work that way......

never has, never will

sorry to burst your bubble
:beer:
 
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