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A MIG Welder Lament

MarkG

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First of all, I'll say I really like my Hobart Handler 140, but MAN I wish I would have got something with a little more juice! Also, it's amazing how much something can weigh that looks pretty small and 'portable'!

I guess when a heavier project comes along (or is developed!) at that point I'll have to decide between a bigger MIG or a stick welder. Of course, a TIG welder would be nice to have too....
 
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Hencini

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What kind of stuff are you doing? I've been real happy with my Hobart 140, but have only used it for light fab work on some Jeep related projects.
 

ilovevocs

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I would go for a bigger MIG, but that is just me. Keep that little guy around for welding gauge thickness materials and assuming it is 110 the portability will come in handy from time to time. After welding with a bigger machine you will wonder how you ever got buy with out it.
 

MoonRise

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Yup.

At least you seem to be recognizing that the 'small' MIG machines (especially the 120V powered units) have a 'power' limit. :beer:

You can weld a -little- bit thicker stuff using FCAW instead of GMAW, just in case you didn't realize that yet.

The 120V MIG units are not 'bad', just that their power output limits can be reached kind of quickly. Sheetmetal up to maybe 1/8" or 3/16" (using FCAW there) are within their capabilities (usually). Thicker than that and you have to use some 'tricks' or just plain need a bit more 'power'. A bigger MIG machine, or a stick welder. Or both. :D

Happy welding. :beer:
 

sberry

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The modern 200A compact mig was invented with this crowd in mind. It will put out double the poop, makes it way more usable when it runs 030 solid nice and toasty.
 

justanengineer

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You could also likely learn a bit more about welded joint design and do things a bit differently. Not sure what the fascination seems to be with folks doing the job in one pass, its almost as bad as the "stack-o-dimes" following.
 

bad_idea

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I love my Hobart Handler 185. Great machine. Go for the bigger mig. Then the tig. Forget about stick unless you are working on farm equipment. Stick's benefits typically won't be seen for home hobby use. It is dirty and slow.
 

nine4gmc

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I have the Hobart 140 and have welded 1/4" with it fine. Takes a lil more work with solid core wire than flux but it will stitch it right up with either. That said, I will have a Miller 211 Autoset eventually but mostly for the looks.:p
 

sberry

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I love my Hobart Handler 185. Great machine. Go for the bigger mig. Then the tig. Forget about stick unless you are working on farm equipment. Stick's benefits typically won't be seen for home hobby use. It is dirty and slow.

I have to generally agree with this statement, truth be told could do 98% of the work I do with one and I own 10 machines.
 

koditten

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I wish I had something to offer besides the fact that nobody ever complained about buying too big of a 210v unit. I use mine for structural steel all the way down to body sheetmetal.
 

lotsoftools

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I have a Lincoln 140 and I'd like a bigger machine mainly for the duty cycle. There have been a few times where I was doing a lot of welding and felt like I was pushing it a bit much.
 

LG63

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You can probably pickup a used 225A buzz box for $100-$150 while you're making up your mind. I have mig but still find stick handy for quick jobs in the driveway and I don't have to worry about the wind.
 

kazlx

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I have a 180 autoset and am still spoiled when I use my buddies 251. Night and day difference even in smaller stuff.
 

justanengineer

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I will agree about the dimes but what's the question about one pass? There is no substitute for power.

Its not a question so much as an observation. Many folks seem to be stuck on the idea that a welded joint MUST be done in one pass. Not saying that there isnt many instances where it should be one pass, but several overlapping passes is often preferable to one big fat HOT pass. As some of the fellas here would say, theres more than one way to microwave a cat. :p

I love my Hobart Handler 185. Great machine. Go for the bigger mig. Then the tig. Forget about stick unless you are working on farm equipment. Stick's benefits typically won't be seen for home hobby use. It is dirty and slow.

Considering a tig machine is also stick capable, not sure Id agree. Personally, Ive got an old Hobart stick/tig machine, a MM200, and a Maxstar. I use the Hobart ~95% of the time, preferring tig but also do stick quite regularly. I almost never use the MIG bc I prefer quality over quantity. To most hobbyists, the speed of MIG is a detriment as it makes it more difficult to get a quality weld, which is why MIG is usually the last process taught in a formal program (stick is usually first or second btw). Also, hobbyists tend to work on rusty/dirty vehicles/machinery and/or scrap which makes a stick welder a great choice. Given the choice on a first or only machine, a decent quality stick/tig would be my choice. Failing that, Id be looking at a bigger stick machine simply for the price.
 
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sberry

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95% of hobby types could get by on a single machine, a compact 200 wire feed. Tig is slow and expensive, could easily get by in life without one, stick is hi skill and so much of the worlds metal is getting lighter and thinner. We use a few sticks on occasion in the shop for convenience and for field work.
 
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MarkG

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What kind of stuff are you doing? I've been real happy with my Hobart 140, but have only used it for light fab work on some Jeep related projects.

I bought it initially, because I wanted a top-rated MIG that I could use with 110V, and also took into consideration that MOST of what I can see using it for is within it's thickness capabilities. I'm a 'hobby welder', but have been doing some patch panal welds and other small repairs on my truck, like broken exhaust hangers, etc. Simple, small stuff, but very handy to have a welder for.

I like it a lot for what it is. Interesting comments!
 
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bad_idea

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I am now considering buying a 110v machine for portable use. I borrowed my neighbor's 110v Lincoln to weld a quick bracket on my 79 Camaro around back. I don't have 220v in the back yard. I need to weld a new muffler in my father's Jeep at his house and access to 220v is difficult there too.

What I am saying is it may be handy to keep the 110v machine in addition to purchasing a 220v model. It is nice to have the flexibility for portable jobs. Not everywhere has a 220v plug, but they definitely have a 110v plug.
 
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justanengineer

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95% of hobby types could get by on a single machine, a compact 200 wire feed. Tig is slow and expensive, could easily get by in life without one, stick is hi skill and so much of the worlds metal is getting lighter and thinner. We use a few sticks on occasion in the shop for convenience and for field work.

Id agree w/you on most only needing one machine, but around these parts a smaller stick/tig transformer is the cheaper choice. Everybody seems to want a "blue glue" gun or thinks thats the easier choice to learn on, so the prices on MIGs tend to be higher. Not sure Id say stick is high skill in the least comparatively, its the first process taught in many programs (like our apprenticeship program and the local cc) and passing the state's structural stick test was the first cert offered at both my cc back east, and the one here shes been attending. Similarly, TIG is pretty simple to learn bc as you point out, you can go really slow if need be which not only is great for learning but also improves weld quality which is uber important to anybody welding on a project car. If someone needs production speed with TIG, adding a wire feeder to your filler hand (or torch) is pretty easy/common and gives better than MIG speed, so big MIG vs stick/tig, Id always suggest stick/tig.
 

383 240z

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I love my Hobart Handler 185. Great machine. Go for the bigger mig. Then the tig. Forget about stick unless you are working on farm equipment. Stick's benefits typically won't be seen for home hobby use. It is dirty and slow.

I have to generally agree with this statement, truth be told could do 98% of the work I do with one and I own 10 machines.

Just to pile on, I also have the HH185 and LOVE it. Only MIG machine I have and I use it all the time. Everything from sheet metal work to building the full frame from scratch for my '41 and countless customers cars. Keith
 

805gregg

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My friend had a small lincoln 125, so I said wow I would like one of those, so i got one and welded a lot of small stuff, realized it was limited, so I bought a 145, that ended up too small, then a 185 that is ok but still limited so a Miller 210 this will replace all the others and has a real duty cycle, buy the biggest one first
 

03protege

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I have a Lincoln 140 and I'd like a bigger machine mainly for the duty cycle. There have been a few times where I was doing a lot of welding and felt like I was pushing it a bit much.


I have the Millermatic 140 and my biggest complaint is the duty cycle as well, for thin stuff I usually ignore the duty cycle and can weld for as long as I want no problems.

When welding 1/8" or 3/16" and I have the amperage cranked all the way up I have to allow cool downs as per the manual or it will get real hot and it will also start tripping the breaker.

I don't have a convenient 230v receptacle in my garage, the closest is for the dryer which is through the interior door to the garage and about 30 feet away from where my welder is set up.

A 120v welder just made sense for me. I will probably pick up a used Miller Thunderbolt or Lincoln Ac225 to meet my thicker material demands but no rush.

Long term I want a Miller 211 with the MVP plug.
 

03protege

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I am now considering buying a 110v machine for portable use. I borrowed my neighbor's 110v Lincoln to weld a quick bracket on my 79 Camaro around back. I don't have 220v in the back yard. I need to weld a new muffler in my father's Jeep at his house and access to 220v is difficult there too.

What I am saying is it may be handy to keep the 110v machine in addition to purchasing a 220v model. It is nice to have the flexibility for portable jobs. Not everywhere has a 220v plug, but they definitely have a 110v plug.

Many of the new machines can run on 110v and 220v by simply adding an adapter to the cable.

Hobart/Miller call this there MVP - Multi Voltage Plug
 

dr_clyde

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If you are paitent and willing to do a little looking, there are great deals to be had on professional grade multiprocess welders. I snagged a Lincoln Invertec V300 Pro and a LN-7 wire feeder off eBay for a shade over 800 bones. This welder will do all DC processes. GMAW (short arc and spray), FCAW, SMAW, and scratch start GTAW. If you are lucky, you can find a TIG module for cheap, and then you will have a gas solenoid, high frequency and the remote will tie to the gas.

I use mine daily at work, and it has yet to fail me.

As to the stick doubters, just this evening I was welding 3/4" stainless plate to 1/4"wall 6" stainless square tube. Didn't want to take forever with the TIG, didn't want to get tri-mix gas to MIG them, so I hooked up a stinger and the results were perfectly acceptable.
 

zkling

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Welders are just another tool. You don't use a hammer to drive a screw and you don't use a micrometer as a c clamp. Or at least I hope you don't :lol_hitti

What welder a person needs is based on what they want to do with it and more often than not budget.

A guy that needs to do a bunch of small stainless food grade fittings is not going to be happy with a mig. At the same time a guy that wants to build trailers in a somewhat reasonable time frame is not going to be happy with a tig machine. Or a guy that does body work in his garage is usually not going to go for the tig.

IMHO, there are no multiprocess machines THAT RUN ON SINGLE PHASE that can outperform separate mig and stick/tig machines. Just like a 3in one mil / drill / lathe. You get just the basics of each process. Best machines for the home shop IMHO is a 200 amp mig and 200+ amp AC/DC w/HF tig / stick powerhouse.

MarkG, can you give an example of projects where the 140 is coming up short on please? Depending on what you typically do and expected projects it might be best to sell the HH and purchase a mid size tig machine. If I HAD to choose between either a tig or a mig machine, I would probably pick the tig. Why because it makes me more money, which can then be used to purchase a nice mig machine :D


o a Miller 210 this will replace all the others and has a real duty cycle, buy the biggest one first


Great machine and great advice. One of the best mig machines Miller has ever produced, than again I may be a bit biased as I own one. ;)
I don't think I have ever heard someone say "Dang, I wish my welder had a smaller duty cycle or less amps" :lol_hitti, now weight, size and input power yes, but not output.
 
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bad_idea

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As to the stick doubters, just this evening I was welding 3/4" stainless plate to 1/4"wall 6" stainless square tube. Didn't want to take forever with the TIG, didn't want to get tri-mix gas to MIG them, so I hooked up a stinger and the results were perfectly acceptable.


I NEVER doubted stick's usefulness, I said the average home enthusiast won't see the benefits of stick. I work in ship repair and we use stick ALOT, so simple to set up on the ship. No gas cylinders to lug, no wire feeders to jam up. BUT, how many guys are welding 3/4" stainless plate in their garage?

Please do not read my response as 'heated', 'hostile' or argumentative, I have no ill feelings.
 

dr_clyde

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All my machines run on single phase. They can be wired for three phase, but I haven't seen the need. Most of Millers new welders have Auto-Line, and can be hooked to any input power and run.

I wasn't saying that most guys weld thick plate often, I'm saying you can get a great welder for less than a grand and if the oppertunity presented itself, you could do it.
 

spgirard30

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I have a millermatic 211 and that has been very good to me for the past few years. I recently picked up a Miller Dynasty 200DX and now I rarely touch my 211. I prefer TIG any day for almost all jobs that I do.
 

sberry

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I have been to the school, a couple actually, bought the book, read a little and all I know about metallurgy would be a short list. My experience and variety however is long, maybe deep too, I worked for probably a hundred different contractors and shops over 15 years, seen most of this every way you can do it and I look at others perspective but there is almost no common weld job as a diy that wants results,,, a specialized hobby or need is a different matter but for general **** from a lawn mower to your pickup it can be done with the compact mig,,, 99.5% and the other I would find a reasonable bud with a tig in the rare event you might actually use it. Even aluminum is rather rare,,, I have thousands of pieces so there is a need,, the 210 has replaced the tig but as a home brew scheme unless I had a burning desire wouldn't fart with it.

A 211 with 030 is hard to beat, done thousands and thousands and thousands of welds with one in that class, in between tig,,, cant even remember a general repair not irrigation related and as for paint or rust,,, its worth cleaning most of the time especially for hobby type jobs, its routine to scuff some paint or rust off, just do it.

I do use a few sticks and one reason is that its easy, don't have to move a machine to a piece of equipment for small work.
 
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ScubaSteve

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IMHO, there are no multiprocess machines THAT RUN ON SINGLE PHASE that can outperform separate mig and stick/tig machines. Just like a 3in one mil / drill / lathe. You get just the basics of each process. Best machines for the home shop IMHO is a 200 amp mig and 200+ amp AC/DC w/HF tig / stick powerhouse....

My ESAB 450i CV/CC works on single phase....:evil:

I regret not getting a Millermatic 211, but the MIG function is still quite nice. The new Miller Multimatics may have solved the issue of sacrificing quality when getting a 3-in-1.....lots of bells and whistles that previous 3n1 models were lacking.
 

Jason280

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My first MIG machine was a Lincoln Pro MIG 140, and it didn't take me long to realize I wanted a 240v solid wire machine. I scoured and scoured the internet, and finally found a Lincoln Power MIG 255. It took me the better part of a year to find a decent enough deal, and I'm glad I waited. Now, I still use my 140 for smaller stuff, and would never get rid of it. In fact, I even picked up a Clarke 180a MIG that I have set up to run .035 flux core. That way, I can use it if I'm welding rusty stuff, or don't want to bother with shield gas. I run .023 in my 140, and I'm finishing up a spool of .045 in the 255. As soon as its done, I'm switching over to .035 solid wire.
 

bsaint

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If you are paitent and willing to do a little looking, there are great deals to be had on professional grade multiprocess welders. I snagged a Lincoln Invertec V300 Pro and a LN-7 wire feeder off eBay for a shade over 800 bones. This welder will do all DC processes. GMAW (short arc and spray), FCAW, SMAW, and scratch start GTAW. If you are lucky, you can find a TIG module for cheap, and then you will have a gas solenoid, high frequency and the remote will tie to the gas.

I use mine daily at work, and it has yet to fail me.

As to the stick doubters, just this evening I was welding 3/4" stainless plate to 1/4"wall 6" stainless square tube. Didn't want to take forever with the TIG, didn't want to get tri-mix gas to MIG them, so I hooked up a stinger and the results were perfectly acceptable.

Getting an invertec for that cheap is really rare. Ive been scouring eBay for the past 9 months and invertec CV/CC power supplies in general run around 1.5k - 2k then an LN7 is another grand on top of that.
 

zkling

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My ESAB 450i CV/CC works on single phase....:evil:

Sorry, but I still stand by my statement. That machine doesn't have the low amperage capabilitites that a good all purpose tig machine should have IMHO nor the built in arc adjustment parameters. Additionally, unless you somehow luck into a complete package super cheap. Getting one of those outfitted for both mig and tig is going to cost some serious coin. Well beyond what a separate 200amp mig and tig machine would. Just my 1¢ :dunno: :beer:
 
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theknurl

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I wish I had something to offer besides the fact that nobody ever complained about buying too big of a 210v unit.

exactly...

i have a Lincoln SP-200 with the spot and stitch timers and it runs the big spools.....and i have a 100' extension cord for it:lol:

but my Lincoln 300/300 tig/stick is my go to welder, its on wheels but not very portable:lol_hitti:thumbup:

i don't use stick very often but you ever try hardfacing without it????

for every MIG wire there's probably 250 stick rods

don't do much cutting anymore but my Victor J28 (Aircrafter) with a J550 head will cut 8" of steel......yes, plasma is cleaner but if i need something cleaner i go to the water jet guy:thumbup:
 

sberry

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There are some people bigger machines make sense or are practical for. A good part of a serious shop dealing with machinery would include a stick machine. For the retired 60 something wanting to fab a swing set for grand kids, keep the mower deck together is well served by the simplicity, reliability, cost, utility friendly service demands of a compact or light full size machine if duty and spool size could be an issue.
 

buening

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I scoured and scoured the internet, and finally found a Lincoln Power MIG 255. It took me the better part of a year to find a decent enough deal, and I'm glad I waited.

I was in the market for a welder too and looked at the smaller machines. I dropped $800 on the Powermig 255 that was barely used and am super happy with the purchase. The comparable blue machine was going for double and triple that price at the time. I've had no problems welding thin sheetmetal with the big machine. Portablility is a different story though!
 

garboui

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I'm definitely on the side of looking foe a bigger mig now too. I have thought about getting a stick for the heavier stuff because they're cheap used but I enjoy the clean welds of gassed mig welding. Seems to be lots of deals on used 550v welders in my area but no 220v.

Recently I have been working on a project that's definitely been putting me at the absolute limit of my Lincoln sp-135 plus. Below are some pics of the welds. With full chamfering and running the wire (0.030) as slow as it will tolerate it seems to be getting decent penetration (had to grind out a couple welds) with the heat set as maxed as it would go on 3/16" tube. Below are some pics of the welds.






 

Gamble

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I just sold my HH140. Great welder and never had an issue. My upgrade is going to be an HTP 200. I got to use one recently and there are a few things I love about it.
http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=60200&CartID=4
230+ pounds = beastly transformer and choke coil and high duty cycle
24 (i think) heat settings. Welded on some 1/2" plate (i think) and it was buzzing away and I fell in love. It just feels like a quality machine.
2 rollers that are gear driven. :)
A 200amp machine the size of a 110v machine just doesn't do it for me.
 
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