A modern day old well?

[Bennylava]

How would you build a modern day, old style water well? These days when you think of a well, you think of a 10 inch hole in the ground that goes down... however far. With only a water pump in the bottom. But what if you wanted to build a well in the old style? Where the well was 3-5 feet wide, and went down 30 or 40 feet? How would you improve upon the old design? The first thing that comes to mind is a waterproof ladder in case anyone fell in. So maybe they could just climb right back out.

But what about the concrete? And any other layers of material that would line the well. I'd wager there are other layers of material the well could make use of, that would make it better than a well from ancient times. And what about the door covering it? Maybe it would be best to have a "well house" which is a small building built around the well, so that critters couldn't easily get in there. My grandfather said that when he was a kid in the 1940's, their south Texas well would sometimes get snakes trapped in it and he'd have to fish them out. Obviously you'd want to avoid that with a modern well. You don't want to be using well water from a well that has a dead possum in the bottom of it.

Speaking of that, it would also be real nice to have bright lights every 10 feet down in the well. So maybe you could see all the way to the bottom. Or at least have one bright light at the bottom, with a camera looking at the bottom of the well. You could check the video feed from time to time and make sure there wasn't anything nasty laying on the bottom of your well, polluting up your well water.

I also imagine some kind of efficient, easy to use hand pump so you could still pump water in the event that you had no electricity. I'd just like to hear how you'd do it these days. Remember it has to be a wide well, with no electric pump in the bottom. Gotta be the old design.

(granted this would be after you've verified that your local groundwater is ok for use this way)

 

[Pluribus]

Shallow wells are still being built (and approved by AHJ's in the U.S.) that are basically 3' concrete pipe sections stacked vertically, and there is no liner. However, they are not open holes in any way, as that would allow all sorts of contamination. There might be some approximately 6" PVC pipes for inspection/access on the lid, but the lid is likely going to be solid concrete with a seal. Pump is submerged, and the water line exits below ground level. Gaining access requires some sort of hoist for the (very heavy) lid, and hopefully it doesn't need to be done often.

If you want to go old-school and not put an electric pump in it, Bison Pumps ( https://www.bisonpumps.com/ ) makes a really fancy stainless steel hand pump for $1,200 or so. Obviously, you can go cheaper. Mate the top access port configuration to the type of pump you're using. Look at Bison's site for different flange configurations.

This stuff is still being done all over the world.

 

[Bennylava]

However, they are not open holes in any way, as that would allow all sorts of contamination.

I'm talking about one that would have an open hole. Or at least, one that has a door you could open without too much effort. Even if you did use a door that seals up well enough. Imagine a modern day take on the old open well.

Something that you might build yourself if you were living off grid, and you wanted an old open well. But you wanted modern enhancements.

 

[Jarwop]

Cleo Epps was found at the bottom of one

https://sapulpatimes.com/local-author-pens-book-about-bootlegger-cleo-epps/

 

[Gotcha640]

As above with the old school pump in addition to the modern setup could work. You might have a hard time getting around the not-removable-so-drunks-and-kids-can't-get-in lid, but put that low and your cobble stones and shade roof above.

Might have questions around the mechanical pump being certified not to backflow and contaminate.

I think modern deep wells or this sort of shallow would include filtration as part of the system. Your hand drawn water, I would want to have some method of cleaning. Assuming this is for the occasional power outage or just for fun, that could be a lifestraw or a countertop dispenser.

If for more demand, maybe you set up some barrels nearby, one high enough for gravity to pull through filter. Or a bicycle pump to pressurize the feed tank.

I'd be more interested in a windmill if it was for any more than decoration. We have one at the local demonstration farm, over 100 years old, just needs the occasional grease and a new leather seal and it keeps the cistern full.

 

[Gotcha640]

Why do you want the open hole? It could even have an open area for the first 5 feet so you can amaze your friends by winding a bucket out, but the safety concerns of a traditional open well are significant.

 

[dutchgray]

I would do it exactly how they used to do them in the old days, which in my area is large cut stones laid to form the tube, they would do them by building the masonry tube on the ground on a ring of some sort and digging out under it to sink it down, you dig a bit and build a bit until your in the water at a time when the water table is low.
Obviously you need to stay well out of any ground water sources that others are pulling drinking water out from with deep sealed wells. Traditional wells are filled by surface water that has soaked in through the ground and been somewhat cleaned by the process, but if you have polluted ground the water will be to.

If you want an off grid drinking water supply do a modern bore hole well or capture rain water.

 

[ZRX61]

Around here in the desert they do septic soak-aways that are about 4-5ft dia & go down 40-50ft... so the technology exists..

 

[Pluribus]

I'm talking about one that would have an open hole. Or at least, one that has a door you could open without too much effort. Even if you did use a door that seals up well enough. Imagine a modern day take on the old open well.

Something that you might build yourself if you were living off grid, and you wanted an old open well. But you wanted modern enhancements.

If I were building it myself for off-grid use, I'd build it as I mentioned above (or some other safe/sanitary manner) with a hand pump and a sealed lid.

Why would anyone want something less sanitary, more complicated, more expensive, more hazardous, not to mention with more critters floating in it?

If you want something with the aesthetics you listed, then build a fake wishing well to look the way you want, but have a separate safe/sanitary water supply. Your idea of aesthetics contradicts sanitary and functional considerations.

 

[matt_i]

I dug this hole ~50" into the ground in my shop and it was a ****** to get back out. I had to make the little plank-ladder to assist.

I can't imagine digging 30-40 feet down.

Gotta find someone who's not claustrophobic and fearless and some way to vent the confined space....if it collapses.....there are probably an untold number of humans who went down and never came back up....the truck checks off every one of these safety issues as "eliminated".

 

[Gotcha640]

The part where you create it your self, assuming alone, is tricky. Alone, you don't have anyone to pull you out if the ladder breaks/rope falls in, making it alone could be a long time digging before you get any water. Months if not years.

If I were going to live off grid, and I had a choice about it, I'd go somewhere with a river and regular rain rather than worry about a well.

 

[acer66]

I have an old well under my kitchen and who ever dug that did a good job.
Maybe 3’ in diameter the red clay walls look like a hot knife went through butter.

 

[Marctrees]

The tight lid is not only to keep drunks and children out.

One dead mouse down there can FYU bigtime.

Marc

 

[Zmann]

I dug this hole ~50" into the ground in my shop

why for ??

 

[Stuart in MN]

I assume this is just a mental exercise, and you aren't actually planning on digging one?

 

[Marctrees]

Lotta work to make a woman suit.

Marc

 

[KEH]

My family home had an old dug well lined with rock. That was the best tasting water. Rocks were stacked without cement seams. At one time the bucket got caught under a rock at the bottom and my father tried to flatten it so it could be removed with the rope and windlass as usual. He lowered a section of railroad rail on a small chain and worked at flattening the bucket, unfortunately he hit a key rock and knocked all the walls down. Removing the rocks one at a time was no/t a possibility s/o well diggers were hired. First they drew a circle large enough to allow putting in 3 foot concrete pipe at the bottom of the well. They then started digging with mattocks and shovels. After getting as deep as they could throw out dirt they put in a windlass frame which had steel cable around the working part of the windlass with a 30 gallon steel barrel to hold dirt. One man would crank the windlass back up and empty the dirt. I was a young grammer school boy and the man on top asked me to hold the handle on the windlass while he ran around and pulled the drum to one side and emptied the dirt. He would turn the windlass so that the handle on my side was almost straight up and I would get under it and hold it up until he said let go, whereupon I would turn the handle loose and run to get out of the way. He would have ran around to the drum and pull it as far away from the hole as possible to dump it. Anybody see any OSHA violations?

To make the windlass they had taken a 10n inch or so tree long enough to fit over the hole and skinned the bark off. The then used 2 x 6s (I think) and nailed and possibly bolted them to the sides of the log, at an angle away from the well. A round piece of wood was fastened between the ends of the handles. An X brace frame was made for the ends of the assembly and round windless shaft was laid in the low part of the Xs and well greased.

After they hit water they dug as deep as they could and dipped water into the drum which was drawn up and emptied. When they could no longer keep up with the water they called it done.

At the end of each day's digging they mixed up plaster and plastered the sides of the well to keep the walls from caving in.

At the conclusion of the dig they called in a concrete pipe company to bring in 3 or 4 sections pf 3 foot pipe. They company had a truck with a boom and cable which they used to lower the pipe with. There was a latch on the sides of the mechanism which held the pipe and could be released with a rope to leave the pipes stacked on the bottom.

Father in law told me years later that dug a well in Tryon, NC for their house through a lot of solid granite. After digging as far as possible they would drill into the rock, insert 1/2 stick of dynamite(or maybe more , maybe less) and shoot the dynamite off. Then they would go down and dig out the loose rock and send it to the top.

The man digging our well said he would not go down into a rock lined well to work on it, because once he did and was being drawn back up in the drum. the brum swung over most of the way up and knocked the walls loose. The man on top kept cranking and he made it out. He said he could look down and see the rocks falling together under him but kept going and got out.

Some points for you guys wanting to dig a shallow well. (The one my parents had dug is a little over 50 feet deep, AIRC) IMO you have to have it big enough in diameter to be able to work in. The guys digging our well had short handled mattocks and short shovels. The walls have to be lined with something to keep them from caving in. If you are digging through rock I assume this won't be a problem. Finally, what about permits? I'm sure the thought of a permit never crossed my father's mind.

BTW, the way the well was sterilized was to pour a gallon of bleach into the well and then draw that water out.

KEH

 

[theoldwizard1]

Shallow wells are still being built (and approved by AHJ's in the U.S.) that are basically 3' concrete pipe sections stacked vertically, and there is no liner. However, they are not open holes in any way, as that would allow all sorts of contamination.

I'm talking about one that would have an open hole. Or at least, one that has a door you could open without too much effort.

As Pluribus mentioned, the biggest issue is surface runoff. The second biggest issue is person/animal falling in.

On YouTube, check early episodes of Red Poppy Ranch and Busted Wagon Ranch. They both put in basically what would be called a "spring box", but some would call it a shallow well. 5'-6' diameter culvert sections stacked vertically and necked down near the top.

 

[Bennylava]

I'd be more interested in a windmill if it was for any more than decoration. We have one at the local demonstration farm, over 100 years old, just needs the occasional grease and a new leather seal and it keeps the cistern full.

Windmill sounds great. How big of a cistern can you get though? Need it on a tower so you get plenty of water pressure for the house.

Why do you want the open hole? It could even have an open area for the first 5 feet so you can amaze your friends by winding a bucket out, but the safety concerns of a traditional open well are significant.

Bah! They survived for thousands of years using these open holes in the middle of town for water. You know, the classic village or town with the old well in the middle.

Your idea of aesthetics contradicts sanitary and functional considerations.

But you should be able to put a door on it that was made to seal up quite well. Thus keeping critters (and probably even bugs) out. And these big holes functioned just fine for people to have water for thousands of years. Now all the sudden they're not good enough? Bah!

I have an old well under my kitchen and who ever dug that did a good job.
Maybe 3’ in diameter the red clay walls look like a hot knife went through butter.

Do you have any pics of that old well? I'd love to see some. Anyway how did it get under there? Why would they build a house on top of it? Maybe it was originally some sort of convenience, being located in the kitchen?

The tight lid is not only to keep drunks and children out.

One dead mouse down there can FYU bigtime.

Marc

And what did they do in the old days about a mouse falling in? Surely they had to have some means of not dying from some disease every time some stupid critter fell in and died.

I assume this is just a mental exercise, and you aren't actually planning on digging one?

Yeah for the most part. Although I may consider it someday if I ever do finally go off grid. I likely won't have the option to just move close to a river, and you want to be self sufficient. Your electrical may go down, possibly forever, thus an old style well would be what you'd need if you didn't live by some big natural water source.

Lotta work to make a woman suit.

Marc

I'm afraid I don't quite understand this reply. Could you please elaborate?

 

[Gotcha640]

For thousands of years people fell in and died, and your brother married your wife and they had more kids who also fell in wells and died so they had more kids.

For thousands of years the rat fell in and gave everyone in town the plague or cholera and your brother and your wife and your kids died.

In some ways, we're smarter now, so water gets cleaned and wells have stout lids on them.

The windmill is maybe 30 feet tall, cistern is about 20 feet. Plenty of pressure to open a tap and have water come out. You would have to be motivated to climb the tower, get in the cistern, it be full enough to stick your head in, and you hold yourself under long enough. At that point, I'm not getting involved. But you would have to remember to get the windmill before you escape the apocalypse. Do you have the windmill guy's number?

 

[ZRX61]

And what did they do in the old days about a mouse falling in? Surely they had to have some means of not dying from some disease every time some stupid critter fell in and died.

They died, until the discovery of penicillin etc

 

[Pluribus]

Once we discovered that it wasn't evil spirits inhabiting our bodies that made us sick, and that there were bacteria, protozoa, fungi, and viruses, we changed our thinking on protecting our water sources.

Gotta go, there's an article in latest New England Journal of Medicine Magazine on using leeches to **** out "bad blood" for people with cancer.

 

[acer66]

Do you have any pics of that old well? I'd love to see some. Anyway how did it get under there? Why would they build a house on top of it? Maybe it was originally some sort of convenience, being located in the kitchen?

I will see if I find them, I only saw down there once when the floor was open and most of it was filled with concrete debris.

There was an outhouse close by which contaminated the well so they had to abandon the well and at one point they build over the well.

Oldtimer told me that they were forbidden to go near the well before it was build over because of the danger of falling in.

House was build in 1901.

 

[Marctrees]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marctrees View Post
Lotta work to make a woman suit.

Marc
I'm afraid I don't quite understand this reply. Could you please elaborate?


Jame Gumb keeps abducted women in an old well.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102926/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Marc

 

[joey1320]

I have a large well in the backyard, probably 5' diameter by 15' deep. The well is one of three in connecting yards between myself and my neighbors. This was all a berry farm and the farmers built them to have easy access to water back in the late 1800's.

I removed the bricks and the manual water pump and covered it with PT wood and tapcon anchors since, at the time, we have a rambunctious 3yo who would had tried his hardest to climb over the bricks to see inside.

We now have a 7yo and an even more daredevilish 2yo, so we'll have to wait until we can uncover it and rebuild it better and safer. All the bricks around it were just place there, no form of mortar keeping the bricks in place and the beams holding up the water pump were completely rotted out.

 

[Jackfre]

This is my well. 75’ deep. 48” concrete pipe down 42’ and dirt 3’ wide the rest of the way. When we bought the property I had the local well folks out and their guy said, “oh, you have one of his wells.” Who’s his? I replied. There was a guy back in the 20’s and 30’s who dug these and according to the well guy, they meet all of today’s standards. I have almost 500 gallons of standing water in there so it is my cistern. My three closest neighbors all lost their wells over the last couple years and had to add storage tanks. Our well has powered on. The well guy said we have the well that all the neighbors want. I did have a coliform issue this past spring and pulled the lid for inspection and to shoot it. A complete water test was done. The test company said we have about the best water they have seen. If the coliform continues in the next test I am planning on putting a 36” casing the last 40 or so feet and grouting it in. I am also going to fabricate a better top that the 4” concrete slab.

 

[Bennylava]

For thousands of years people fell in and died, and your brother married your wife and they had more kids who also fell in wells and died so they had more kids.

lol something tells me it wasn't quite that bad.

Gotta go, there's an article in latest New England Journal of Medicine Magazine on using leeches to **** out "bad blood" for people with cancer.

Hey they still use leeches! That's still a good method for some things!

As for Hannibal Lecter, wasn't that just a pit the guy dug in the middle of the living room? Not an actual well

 

[acer66]

As for Hannibal Lecter, wasn't that just a pit the guy dug in the middle of the living room? Not an actual well

I am still debating to cut out the floor and install some glass so I can look down the well and maybe scare some visitors with light and sound effects.

 

[dg57]

lol something tells me it wasn't quite that bad.



Hey they still use leeches! That's still a good method for some things!

As for Hannibal Lecter, wasn't that just a pit the guy dug in the middle of the living room? Not an actual well

Anytime you put a non-cased or poorly cased down into an aquifer, you have created a path for contamination. If you contaminate your own local perched aquifer that's your problem. If you contaminate a larger aquifer, you should hope you are not sharing it with someone that takes offense to that sort of thing.

 

[Firebrick43]

lol something tells me it wasn't quite that bad

Yes, yes it was. Clean water, sanitary sewers, and garbage men did more for human health than any doctor ever did.

Go to any third world country and see how many are still getting their water out of an open well and you will find death due to water borne diseases.

There is no good reason to build one today like that. A functional windmill or hand pump can easily be installed over a modern well casing with no issues.

As for methods, the last of the hand dug wells were done with concrete casings. They dug down 2/3 of the way of the first section and set the casing in. From that point on the dug under the bottom edge. As they dug the casing would slide down. As the first casing section dropped below ground level another section was set in place and so on the whole shebang sliding down the hole and protecting the diggers at the same time. The better casings had a tongue and groove joint where set together.

If I was a glutton for punishment today I would do the casing the same way but use a pressure washer to “dig” at the bottom edge and and a slurry pump to get it out of the hole. Up top a settling pond can be temporarily formed to allow the dirt to settle out and the water reused.

Also a lot of well drillers died when something fell down the well and even more due to asphyxiation from carbon dioxide, methane, or hydrogen sulfide.

If you want a low tech way of drilling a well you can use a simple tripod and a prompt to capstan winch around a garden tractor blocked off the ground and a rim whiteout a tire on it. This percussion Method is even being don’t in South America and Africa by hand with the use of a spring pole. Even they understand the dangers of an open well and are working towards a modern style well

 

[NUTTSGT]

How old are you and how much spare time do you have ?


You just need to dig to 1,286 feet to be the deepest hand dug well. Yeah, over a thousand feet deep.

Woodingdean water well in England.

 

[Red 17]

We had a few wells on the farm. I watched the guy dig the last one. He used a clamshell bucket on a tracked crane--I really can't recall what that thing looked like. Anyway, he starts the hole, gets down a little, then puts down some pea gravel. He sets the first drill casing tile on that, and then digs inside the casing. As described above, as he digs, he digs a hole under the casing that is larger than the casing. He continues to add pea gravel around the casing, and then adds casings as the casing and pea gravel sink. You end up with a well that doesn't immdiately fill up with sand or silt that way.

Of course the old ways worked, if you were satisfied with a 35 year life expectancy and a 40% mortality rate for kids under 5.....

 

[PCustoms]

My parents put in a well in 1986, was dug as far as the backhoe could reach and lined with 48” concrete tiles. Check valve in the bottom, well pump in the basement.

Every August we'd have to pick showers or laundry, on bad years it was showers or dishes and laundry got brought to the coin OP.

Around 2000 we had it dug deeper, this time a full excavator, and the operator made a shelf to get even deeper. Bottom got filled with gravel and stone to make a resivor, the tiles started. Was around 80’ I think. Top was capped with a round lid with a hole just big enough for an extension ladder, and that had a lid.

If we went in for any reason if got a gallon of chlorine.

Water tested perfect a few years ago when they sold.

 

[Glemon]

On the kitchen well thing, we grew up in a house built around 1910. In the basement was a well shaped circle of bricks about 3-4' in diameter and 2-3' feet high. This was right below the kitchen sink. I am not sure that it was a well, but I am having trouble thinking of any other reason why you would build a circle of bricks in the basement. We always assumed it was a covered up well.

Off topic, but the old place also had radiator heat, and a huge furnace next to the coal room (still had a coal shoot, which I will never forget because playing around as a kid I dropped it on my foot and broke it). Assume it was a coal burner converted to natural gas, it still had a coal door on the furnace.

Way way off topic, after a few repairs and $500 monthly gas bills in the winter the furnace company convinced us to buy a new one, supposedly much more efficient. The fuel bills never really went down much and the house always felt colder afterwards. I think all the "wasted" energy escaped into the basement, heat rises, go figure.

So coming full circle, yeah, all the modern technology and conveniences are **** and you should dig your own well.

 

[Firebrick43]

On the kitchen well thing, we grew up in a house built around 1910. In the basement was a well shaped circle of bricks about 3-4' in diameter and 2-3' feet high. This was right below the kitchen sink. I am not sure that it was a well, but I am having trouble thinking of any other reason why you would build a circle of bricks in the basement. We always assumed it was a covered up well.

Probably a cistern. Rainwater was collected into the cistern where it set until the pitcher pump above it in the kitchen was used to draw it out. Cisterns are uncommon in the US nowadays but many countries with poor water distribution systems have them as a buffer because the water pressure/flow is so slow or unpredictable. Rainwater cisterns are making a comeback in the arid parts of the US but for lawn irrigation purposes due to the difficulty in keeping them clean

 

[johninct]

My father use to install them. Dig hole, pump water out. Put 2' to 3' crushed stone in hole. Next install well tile pipe lip down. The concrete pipe 3' in diameter, must have no reinforcing steel in it. Notch the lip so water can enter like a castle nut. Cement the joints before installing the next section. Install all of the sections. Put maybe 2' of crushed stone around the pipe and put an impervious barrier paper over the crushed stone. Backfill the dirt and put the concrete cover on the top and call it a day.

 

[Fatboy148]

I have a site on my property where there was a house in the early 1800's that had a 20' dug well that is about 3' across and has laid up flat stone for walls. We have had the driest year I can remember and we've been here 35 years so yesterday I dropped a weighted tape measure down the well to see where the water level was and there was 15' of water in there. There is also a concrete cistern up on the hill that used to feed the cow barn in days gone by. That barn is near the old farm house that was built in 1870-1871. I checked that a couple weeks ago and it too was full of water. Years ago, my neighbor who then was 80 plus, told me when he was five years old that his dad was hired to dig a trench about 1/2 mile with his horses and a slip to lay a water line from the cistern to the barn. He said they used a lead pipe.