A newb looking for suggestions...

[bubba]

Hi guys, I am new to the site and I am from East TN. I am 21yrs old and my incomes leaves alot to be desired...haha, but i'm trying to plan a garage/apartment type deal that I could build relativly cheap now, and later on down the road ...add to or build an adjacent house to it.

I have drew up a sketch of my ideal plan, but dont have anyway to transfer it onto my computer at the moment. But its a 32x40 stick built building. The back 14' of the garage is blocked off to make a small apartment type area. Its got a 13'x12' BR, 5x8 Bath, small kitchen area, and a 13'x10'-6" living area, with a small offset for a washer/dryer compartment.

For now, the only part I would be worried about having finished is the apartment part....thats including sheetrock, insulation, etc. I work for a local lumber company designing trusses, but I dont really deal with the guys at the main office because we are in another building so I dont really get to talk to them much about prices and such. Just trying to get a rough idea on stuff.

Heres what I got so far...
10' Walls
2)10' garage doors
2x4 walls
vinyl siding
shingles
maybe do 14'-(12" deep) floor trusses over the apartment part,
that way there would be access to the plumbing,
and I could run heatduct underneath instead of overhead
scissor trusses over the garage part

Anyways....Any suggestions, or guesses on how much I would be looking at for this, I would really appreciate it. I know prices vary from area to area, but i'm just looking for a general range. I would probably consider my small town to be on the low-end of prices on labor and such..but its hard telling...haha. But again, I am open to any suggestions you guys would have as far as something I may want to change or think about adding. But I am on a pretty tight budget...I would like to build this for 25K-30K max, but anyways...Thanks for listening to me ramble.

 

[PAToyota]

Might want to separare that into paragraphs and sentences... My eyes cross just trying to read that...

 

[bubba]

Haha, I fixed it. Sorry about that.

 

[kbs2244]

I am guessing the outfit you work for has a guy who comes up with what they call a "build list." Get on his good side and give him your ideas. Depending on how much info you give him, and the software he is useing, you will get a list of everything you will need, right down to how many switch plates. Some software will even do a cost list per system. Like for rough carpentry, roofing, siding, electric, plumbing, etc.
At the least he should be able to give you a typical per square foot contruction cost.
If the local zoneing allows it, one trick I have seen used, is once the basic building is enclosed and dry, pull in a travel trailer to live in. Being so close to the project allows you work when ever you have a free half hour.

 

[1320stang]

10' Walls

maybe do 14'-(12" deep) floor trusses over the apartment part,
that way there would be access to the plumbing,
and I could run heatduct underneath instead of overhead

I don't get this, floor trusses above the apartment, to access plumbing? I also don't get running the heating ducts below, is the apartment upstairs or is there a crawl space below the apartment?

 

[bubba]

I don't get this, floor trusses above the apartment, to access plumbing? I also don't get running the heating ducts below, is the apartment upstairs or is there a crawl space below the apartment?

No, I was meaning like stop the concrete at the apartment half on the end so the concrete slab would only be 32x26 for the garage, then just do the apartment section like a regular house with a crawlspace, that way I could run regular heat duct under the apartment instead of overhead ductwork and wouldnt have to have the plumbing run underneath the concrete.

Sorry for the confusion..haha, shouldve re-worded that.

 

[bubba]

I'm also wondering about what kind of HVAC unit I would need? I'm not really worried about heating/cooling the garage right now, but I will need it for the apartment...so would that be something that would be best done now, instead of just doing something smaller for the apartment, then having to do something seperate for the garage? Any suggestions?

 

[RoundelRider]

My Inlaws have a garage apt. Id guess its 40x40 or better. The garage is downstairs and the apt is above it. In the garage there is 2 wide single doors with a regular 30in door in the middle. Inside there is enough room for 3 cars + working space. Theres also a small office and bathroom in the office with toilet ans sink. Its not glamerous, but its nice!

The apartment entrance via stairs and deck that spans the entire width of the structure on the oppisite of the garage doors. The space is divided in 1/2 with a full kitchen/great room as you enter. Two bedrooms are on the right and there seprated by a full bath and laundry room. Me and the wife lived there for a year, she lived there longer before I came around.

HVAC is above the cieling of the Apt, and all plubing,drier duct, and electrical is under/in the floor joist of the apartment floor. Sure you can see it from the Garage, but you can also fix things easily too.

Hopes this helps!

 

[1320stang]

Well, most 'regular' houses in Oklahoma are slab-on-grade.

I like the two story idea myself...

 

[bubba]

Yeah, I wouldnt mind to do a 2-story deal, but That would be quite a bit more money. Im wanting to build this thing for around 25K-30K max. Now, If I can get it in the dry, I think I could do alot of work on the interior myself. Plus, where I build it...I wont be that far from where im living now with my parents, so that wont be a big deal. I didnt get a chance to get with the guy at work to give me a quote, but i'm gonna try to get with him monday. I went around a little while looking for a few lots, I found a few...but nothing that really really caught my eye. But i'm definetly planning on planning out everything and getting all the numbers before I jump into anything. but thanks for your input guys. Keep the suggestions coming, i'm open to anything that may help out. Thanks!

 

[bubba]

Oh yeah guys....What/if any are some good cheaper alternatives to wall coverings? I know OSB is the standard for the base sheeting outside, but as far as outer covering? Is vinyl siding on the exterior pretty well the cheapest route? I've seen some of you guys interior walls covered in luan(underlayment), steel sheets, and I know my uncle has vinyl siding on the interior. I'm not too worried about having the garage finished/insulated/etc right away, but just trying to plan ahead a little. What about paneling for my apartment area? Would it be cheaper than sheetrock? Also, I know they offer pre-covered panels as well dont they? I'm just trying to go with the most "budgeted minded" stuff without lowering the overall integrity of the building.

btw, I do plan on using one side of the garage to wash my truck as well, so it would need to be resistant to moisture.

 

[64dragnwagon]

I also think that the two story is the way to go. The cost per SF is generally cheaper on two story than one. Your slab would be smaller and concrete is very high right now. I also live in east TN and you can get some pretty cheap lumber from local sawmills since it is harvested locally. What town do you live in? I have a great connection on cheap lumber in Mountain City TN. Do you plan on building this yourself? I think it could be done for what you have in mind if you do a lot of the work yourself. I am building a 40 X 100 building with concrete floor, post construction, metal siding and roof, 3 overhead doors, one door, one window for under 20K excluding insulation, plumbing, electrical and HVAC. It is not hard to put together a bill of materials and get prices.

 

[bubba]

Hey, Nice to see another tennessean...haha. Well, The garage is pretty well the size I want...so thats why I thought about stopping the slab at the apartment section, then have a row of block(whatever height it has to be for my lot) and put floor trusses there. I'm not really sure how much concrete is right now, but I think I could save, if nothing else it would be a little better this way cuz I do have regular ductwork underneath the apartment section, and wouldnt have to have the plumbing in the cement over the majority of the plumbing. Cuz the only plumbing I would really need is the one drain in the one garage bay. My plan is this...Get someone to put it in the dry fast(foundation/block, sidewalls, siding, trusses, sheeting, shingles, etc), then I could go in and do as much as I could on the interior up until the drywall/wiring/plumbing cuz I wouldnt really trust myself doing that. I had also thought about maybe doing those pre-covered wallboards, that way I wouldnt have to pay someone to finish the drywall, and the prices of each sheets dont really look to be much different...although I havent look too in depth on it yet. I live in Claiborne county. Thanks for the input!

Btw, Would it be cheaper to go with one large garage door(18'), or two smaller doors...like 10' doors?

 

[64dragnwagon]

one door might be a little cheaper but two smaller ones are better. Good luck on your project.

 

[BoCRon]

It's usually cheaper to go up rather than out.

Annette

 

[PAToyota]

As others have been saying, going up is cheaper as you are saving on the cost of both the foundations and roof and just spending money on the walls and floors - which you have to build either way.

I've known a couple people that have gone the route of building a garage/apartment first and then using that as "basecamp" to build the house as they have some more money. It can be a great way to go and then you have either a guestroom or office space once the house is built.

Thanks for editting - makes your first post much easier to read!

 

[bubba]

Well, From my perspective...I cant really see how doing a 2-story could be cheaper than what i've got in mind. I mean, I would have to buy floor trusses like if I did a plan like shown above. Then I would have to build a second complete exterior framing walls, not counting having to run the plumbing/HVAC that extra 10' upstairs. My apartment area is going to be just 14x32 section...so its barely as big as half of the garage. I tried to scan a copy of my layout I drew, but my scanner is being a pain. But I had also thought about doing it this way...laying a 32x26 slab for the garage...then on the back of the 26'...have another 14' of floor trusses run 14' ways cuz (17)14' trusses are cheaper than 8' free spaning 32' trusses. That way I could save on not using that extra concrete, and I would have trusses to make the plumbing and HVAC system easier. For no more than i'm wanting, doing a 2-story couldnt be any cheaper(at least I dont see how). But I appreciate your guys input...i'm gonna go talk to our 'quotes' guy at work and see what he says about materials and such, and maybe get a few cost-cutting pointers from him too. But if you guys have any more helpful info, let me have it..haha. Thanks again for the input, and keep it coming!

BTW, I went out to look at a few lots last night and today...i've found one I would really like to have, but I just gotta figure out the financial part of it..haha. I'm 21yrs old, not really that hot of a job, good credit...but 'new', and already have a few payments I gotta make right now. So I dont know how thats gonna go. I'm thinking about selling my Banshee so I could have a little extra cash there for a down-payment. I'm gonna see about financing a lot first, then I could turn around and get the loan for the materials and such and have the lot good towards that. But i'm gonna keep up my research as this really has me hyped about getting out on my own, and having MY own place...plus a sweet garage to boot!

 

[PAToyota]

What we're basically saying with the two story being cheaper is say (for the sake of argument) that you have a 20'x20' apartment and a 20'x20' garage. If they are single story, then you have 800 square feet of foundations and roof to contend with along with the perimeter walls. If you have two stories you only have 400 square feet of each to contend with and about the same perimeter walls but you are adding in the extra floor framing, which is cheaper than foundations and roofs. It isn't going to be half the cost of single story, but it will be a significant savings.

 

[Bib Overalls]

Code requires a step up from a grarage to living space. So building the apartment over crawl space can meet this requirement. But in a small structure like yours I think an insulated concrete slab ith a step is going to be cheaper than the cost of footings and a stem foundation. I would not worry about putting plumbing under the slab. But again, in a small structure like yours, with minimal plumbing you may be able to run all your supply lines through the walls. In my cabin the kitchen backed up to the bath and all the plumbing was in one wall. Consider inslab radiant heat. If you are a TVA customer the cost of operation should be reasonable.

 

[bubba]

Huh, I hadnt thought about it that way. I may could build like a 26x32 garage, and then do like a 26x26 apartment on top. I just hadnt been able to grasp what you guys were saying. I may see about that. I would have to have a little more wall length upstairs, and the floor trusses, would that be less than that extra 14x32 piece of concrete slab? I'm gonna try to find out how much concrete is going for tomorrow, and hopefully get some prices on the materials. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[bubba]

Alright guys, I have been pondering and calculating and drawing up all day...haha. I have came to the conclusion(despite your guys suggestions all along...haha) that the 2-story would definetly be cheaper. So heres a new question. What is a good height on walls for the garage area? I never plan on installing a lift or anything like that, so no worrys there. The reason i'm asking is because with 10' base walls, 2' floor trusses, and 8' 2nd story walls, plus a 5/12 truss...this things gonna be like at least 25' tall. Would a 9' wall on the bottom be fine do you think? I could do that, plus go to a 4/12 pitch and that would kill 2'. What do you guys think?

 

[kbs2244]

I have a 9 foot celing. No Lift.
Always thought I would need 10, but I can't say I have ever even hit a light hanging down from the celing.
I do think you need more than an 8 foot finished celing though. I may not have used 2 extra feet, but I am sure I have used the extra 1 foot.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I went around a little while looking for a few lots, I found a few...but nothing that really really caught my eye.

Look long and hard at where you will be living. The old saying "location, location, location" is all important. If you will be in an incorporated area (city or town) check very carefully about restrictions on garage apartments, etc, some locales do not allow such things. Speaking of codes, even if your locale does not have codes and you are on your own, follow the international building codes and plumbing and electric codes, the life you save may be your own. In any case it will make your place worth more and someday, you will sell it to move up or somewhere else, and you will want the most money you can get. A well built place will do that for you.

Going up is a good idea, as noted, two floors are less expensive than double the square footage on one floor. Some things will cost more. The downstairs walls will require more studs, probably 12 inch centers instead of 16. The slab and foundation, whether done as a monolith pour or separate, is probably about the same, but the ceiling of the garage will require probably a double layer of sheetrock to meet fire codes (4 hr firewall?), an outside stairway will be a must, again fire code.

Do not get sidetracked, set goals and focus on them. Make lots of plans but set a goal (such as find a suitable lot, with no restrictions or building code or covenant limitations, etc. that is a location you really want to live in) and progress to that first. Then go on to the second goal, site prepration. Then a third goal, and a fourth, etc. Make it in bite sized chunks that you can deal with. Everything costs money, always more than you plan on. You will have legal fees, utility installation fees, insurance to cover you during construction, insurance when done, the site prep I mentioned isn't cheap either. If you are on good terms with your parents, this will help, you won't be rushed just because you want "your own place" and you will probably be able to receive some good words of wisdom, listen to those voices of experience.

"Make a plan, follow the plan", but make the plan complete, don't leave any holes in it, "good golly I forgot about the (insert desired term here)" (insulation, driveway, windows, etc.).

Charles

 

[BoCRon]

I have 9' ceilings in my garage and it is fine. I have space above the doors for extra storage and plenty of head room for our vehicles. Like you, a lift is not in the future for us (actually it may be, but we would put it in our tractor barn which is a steel structure with 14' at the peak.
Another thing to think about for your overall plan is a story and a half instead of a full 2 story. This way part of your upstairs walls are actually roof, which is another way to cut some costs. This is one of the reasons our house has a gambrel roof, it made the second floor as big as we needed but cut down on walls and siding.
An example-see how the second floor is really the roof. You could simplify this plan my eliminating the 3 seperate dormers and make them into one long shed dormer instead.

Annette
Also all of your heat/air ducting for the second floor would be in the ceiling of the garage, then you could have a few registers in the ceiling of the garage to heat/cool the garage. At least you can here in GA.
Annette

 

[bubba]

Yeah, I had thought about doing attic type trusses, but I dont really know if that would give me the room I really want. And wouldnt a contractor charge more to stick in the sections between the dormers and such? I'm still kinda playing with some ideas here and there. I took my first layout to one of the guys that does the quotes and left it with him, so he's gonna be getting back with me on that. I still may consider the attic trusses, i've just gotta talk with a few of the contractors I deal with and see who would be the best choice.

I thought 9' ceilings in the garage would be fine for my needs. I also decided I will be doing the stairway outside too.

As far as codes...my area is not real strict at all, so that wont be a huge deal...although I know i'm not going to build something and get myself into a bind....haha. I plan on talking with some more experienced people on wiring and stuff, I definetly planned on having someone do the plumbing, and I had thought about me just running the wire, but not hooking anything up...then have someone come in and look over everything and make the final connections. I'm not the daring type...haha, I know to definetly triple check everything before finalizing anything...especially when it comes to wiring and stuff that could eventually cause serious problems.

But anyways, I really appreciate you guys help. I'm just gonna keep browsing for lots until I find for sure what I want...then work more towards a solid design and then start seriously thinking about prices and how i'm gonna go about everything. But thanks again!

 

[bubba]

an outside stairway will be a must, again fire code.

Will I have to do an outside stairway? I had thought about doing one on the inside, cuz that'd be nice on rainy days or something just pull in the garage and not have to go back out in the rain and run up a set of stairs, or visa-versa.

What do you guys think? Stairway outside or inside?

 

[1320stang]

I think if the stair was walled off from the garage, an interior stair would be fine. Just put double 5/8" fire resistant drywall on both sides of the common wall, that would give it a 2 hour fire rating. At the bottom, you'd have a steel door going into the garage area.

 

[bubba]

Yeah, I think I may extend it out another 4ft. to accomidate something like that. I want it to cut into my garage area as little as possible. Eh well, we'll see...haha.

 

[bubba]

Here ya go guys, I got bored. Heres a 'rough' sketch of what i've got in mind. I just thought about the idea to add like a deck on the end...have the stairs going up to that, then the door to the apartment. I know i'll have to have beams/posts to hold up the extra trusses to carry that section, but this is just a general idea. Keep in mind all I had on-hand to use was Paint...haha. Let me know what you think.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Check your codes when you get to that point, but I think you will need a 4 hr firewall between the living area and the garage, including a 4 hr fire rated door, and some places require a closer on the door (not sure if this is code or not). Indeed the stairs would also have to be isolated completely by a firewall/door, I think, 4 hr rated. This would be up to your inspector to approve or not.

Charles

 

[bubba]

Well guys, I just drew up another floor layout for the upstairs. I believe i'm just gonna do the stairs outside to save space in the garage and keep from having to extend it anymore and worry with the fire deal. But heres my layout.

 

[KingPerformance]

I like these plans, but where are you guys getting them from? Is there a good internet site that will list them and allow you to purchase the whole plan after?

 

[bubba]

I like these plans, but where are you guys getting them from? Is there a good internet site that will list them and allow you to purchase the whole plan after?

I dont know about the others, but the last one I posted, I drew it up myself.

 

[uzzaw]

I like these plans, but where are you guys getting them from? Is there a good internet site that will list them and allow you to purchase the whole plan after?

Here is a little trick that sometimes works to figure out where images came from. If you right click on the image and select properties you should get a dialog box with some information. If you do that with the images in this post you can see that they are from http://www.coolhouseplans.com/