A Question for Auto Techs and Machinists

[jamison]

I don't want to make this long and winded unless you're interested in more detail to my question, so I've put that information after my question.

Based on places you've worked and bosses you've had, how likely is it that I'd be able to find a friendly small business owner in a garage/machine shop that will allow me to work under them (apprentice style), during part time hours, without compensation, with an insurance policy (if I can find a policy written for this situation), and a custom liability waiver? All legal precautions would be taken to save their asses if something went wrong due to my mistake. Even if I'm just the guys *****, I want to witness and learn how **** gets done by professionals.


Background Info: I'm an accountant with a goal of building a pretty huge garage with significant space for machining equipment. I never had a father figure in my life, a friend in the trade, or even shop class in high school. However, I bought a really old cheap car to learn on, I'm going to take all of the automotive tech classes (12 I believe) at a local community college while working full time, and I hope to just learn as much as possible.

I'll live frugally, save up significant cash in order to retire a bit early, and just live in my garage/shop building things and working on projects whether they're for myself or perhaps to earn a little bonus income during retirement. I want to restore old cars, fabricate parts, build a custom motorcycle, fix modern cars, maybe even design my own car based on a frame from a production vehicle. I won't be able to do that without learning a great deal along the way.


Also, thanks for this amazing forum and all of the help from the wonderful people on this forum. Merry Christmas and happy holidays!

 

[t100]

community college?

 

[softailgarage]

WOW, thats a pretty tall order and I admire your drive but most shops (in california anyway) would probably not be able to do that due to insurance reasons. Even with a waiver, I think most shop owners would shy away from the situation. Accountant? Do you have ANY kind of mechanical knowledge, this isnt stuff you learn overnight.

 

[jamison]

community college?

It's the cheapest, closest, and most respected program in the area I know of, at least so far.

They just recently built a dedicated building with about 12 repair bays in the lab area, and then each classroom has traditional chairs and desks in one half and a repair bay/lift/garage door in the other half. They also have dedicated classrooms for individual auto systems, such as an engine class which consists of 12 engines on engine stands which are torn down and rebuilt by teams of three over the course of the semester. Similar classes are there for transmissions and so on.

Every three hours of class time requires three hours of garage time, and they have partnerships with Toyota and General Motors, which supply all of the vehicles to work on. Their classes are designed to have you pass the ASE certification exams, and the faculty are all ASE certified, factory trained; the labs are NATEF (National Automotive Technicians Education Foundation) certified. They take job placement seriously and I believe the individual giving me the tour said their placement rate is 90%.

Best of all: each semester long 4-credit class is about $500 and they offer class/lab hours of 6 PM to 9 PM so I can take classes while going to work at my accounting firm during the day.

 

[jamison]

WOW, thats a pretty tall order and I admire your drive but most shops (in california anyway) would probably not be able to do that due to insurance reasons. Even with a waiver, I think most shop owners would shy away from the situation. Accountant? Do you have ANY kind of mechanical knowledge, this isnt stuff you learn overnight.

I'm learning quickly over the past four months and I do have basic knowledge of how most systems within a vehicle operate, yes. I've done all of the minor maintenance stuff: all fluid changes, oil filter, fuel filter, thermostat and gasket replacement, air filter, radiator hose replacement, soldered/installed a new oxygen sensor, tail light replacement, bulb replacement for all rear lights, PCV filter (not the valve, as that area is corroded to hell), distributor cap/gasket/rotor, spark plugs and wires, coolant flush, radio and antenna swap, brake bleeding, new engine ground wire, along with minor interior and exterior aesthetic upgrades, and some minor dent/scratch/rust repair using body filler.

My only major work so far was the front disc brakes, but I'll be doing the drum brakes next week and eventually I have to work on installing a new head gasket. The car only cost $525 and it isn't a daily driver, just something to learn on through trial and error.

This whole apprentice situation would only occur after I've completed all of the automotive tech classes, so that's about 540 hours of class room instruction, 540 more hours of working on vehicles in a garage under instruction and supervision of an ASE certified tech, and an estimated 200+ hours studying the course material on my own. That's not counting all of the hours I'd be putting into learning on my own with the project car.

 

[sberry]

I agree, all good to learn and likely highly technical, you dont list your location. Also there is so much about general fabrication, skills often transfered to but not directly linked to automotive. These may include shop design and infrastructure,manpower issues, the list gores on and if I was headed in that biz the effort to become a pretty profecient welder. It adds at least a dozen IQ points to the avg mechanic, if I have a choice, a braniac or a guy has learned general welding and to cut with a torch I take the welder, they can learn and take instruction.

 

[dragonballz]

Let me get this right, you want to learn for your own hobby? You are not trying to be a proffesional mechanic?

I honestly have no idea if a shop will take you. But since you said youre taking classes, they might hire you as a a paid employee. I worked part time at an independent while in school.

I should have worked for free in the beginning to prepare myself for flat rate. I was working for free anyway.

 

[sberry]

I would gladly trade your accounting for showing how to heat and beat, get about any kind of stuck fasteners you can imagine out, difficult to learn some of this from a class and not every mechanic really understands nuts and bolts either.

 

[jamison]

I'm in Monmouth county NJ. I admit it's ambitious to try and master what essentially will be a life-long hobby, but I'm willing to put in the time, money, and effort to develop knowledge and skills. And yes, I will absolutely learn to weld using various techniques and working on different materials.

I guess it was an odd question, but I was more interested to see if anyone has ever trained at a garage or shop for little or no pay, such as an apprenticeship, just to get an idea of whether or not this idea is worth pursuing sometime in the future. If this particular option just isn't possible, I would most likely hire someone to privately tutor me part time. I don't expect to learn all of this information for free, as professional welders, fabricators, and automotive techs all have very valuable skills and knowledge and shouldn't be expected to just pass that on without compensation.

Also, I did learn a good deal about "heat and beat." A 1987 Accord that lived on Long Island for its entire life had tons of rust on every bolt found on the front brakes. I purchased a MAP Pro gas torch which worked well.

Thanks for all input though, I appreciate the help.

 

[Hammer1963]

If you were in Louisville, KY. I would be interviewing you tomorrow. I would love to have someone come into the shop with this attitude. Good luck, I think you will find a shop that will be thrilled to have you join them. Keep us posted !

 

[Cedge]

Jamison...
You sound a bit like me. I was owner and CEO for a couple of companies, both associated with mechanical repairs of various kinds. The difference being that I did get to pull wrenches for a few years before I moved up to the management positions. My fascination was the machinists I often visited to have parts made. I spent a lot of hours watching them do their magic, but never got to touch the machines they used.

I retired and was at loose ends as to how to stay busy, which lead me to buy a small lathe and mill to play with. I began learning with no one to help me conquer the steep learning curve, but soon found a couple of online communities willing to encourage an old guy newbie. It took about 3 years of feeling a bit clumsy and sometimes clueless, but one day it all clicked and from then on not much has stopped me.

I too would have taken classes at the local technical college, but manual machining has become such a dinosaur that they never got the minimum 3 students required to hold the class. Instead, I basically taught myself, which looking back, was more of a blessing than a curse.

Steve

 

[crewchief888]

since you are already heading "back to school" for some automotive, i'd suggest taking a machine shop class, or general metals and/or welding.

the basics of machining, metal working and welding all transfer over to the hobby world of cars/trucks.

back in the 70's when i as still in HS, i took a lot of vocational classes, engineering drawing, general metals, ( included sheet metal work, arc and gas welding, basic lathe and bridgeport setup, & foundry work), and a lot of machine shop classes.

nearly every job i've had at const eq dealerships since '84, the basic skills from those classes helped me get the job, and be able to do anything that was required to get the job done.

the "technicalities" of modern cars/trucks & const eq can be taught to nearly anyone. basic hands on skills, and hands on knowledge is whats lacking....

 

[Cedge]

the "technicalities" of modern cars/trucks & const eq can be taught to nearly anyone. basic hands on skills, and hands on knowledge is whats lacking....

^
This

 

[srmofo]

If you are in the dayton Ohio area I know a fantastic fabricator that does apprenticeships. He charges several thousands of dollars though, but he does teach along the way. You would be more than just the dust pan and broom guy.

As far as working in a garage, thats going to be tough to find unless its a small hole in the wall shop that is slow. You're going to get in the way of most techs, and since we do this as a living, its our bread and butter. Time = Money, if you want me to teach you Im going to charge you.

 

[joecon]

Look for a part time job work weekends or nights someone is looking
for someone to work thoughts hours.Even with limited skills you should
be able to find a job.A small shop with a owner operator who would
teach as you worked and you could work for cheap because you don't
need the money.I learned the trade in an apprenticeship but it has taken
me 40 years and I still am learning all the time.

 

[Lotek]

My suggestion would be a restoration shop, they operate at a slower pace as a rule, maybe trade accounting services for training at first.

 

[pipsters]

Best/quickest way to learn is to learn by doing and getting paid to do it. Guys are going to look at you like you are crazy. I've been thru what you want to do, although it was a different type of job. Trying to convince them you want to leave a 6-figure income in a "cushy" profession doesn't pass the smell test.

I don't recommend lying but you might have to embellish a little, run with a story but don't tell too much about what you are doing now.

I'm real interested in HVAC and transmission repair (I know, two completely different types of jobs) but have a decent job now. It's tough talking your way into those types of jobs, typically they know what you are doing, learning the ropes because you want to open up your own place. They also know you probably have the capital to do it. Nobody likes to fund their competition...

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

I have to admit i love your drive,just keep at it, dont let a thousand 'No's' stop you,and you'll get to where you want to be.

 

[stinkity stoink]

I am in Jersey. I started in a shop in college 1990 with nothing but a desire. I was paid (low wages) and wound up staying there for over 10 years till I opened my own place. I don't see why someone wouldn't take you on . Just start hanging around some shops. Go to car shows and talk to the people there. I am sure some one would be willing to help.
I used to have someone that would come by my place and ask questions and help a little.