A question for the electricians.

[tn_popo]

I have a breaker box in my detached garage with 2 breakers. The left breaker powers the garage door, 2 light fixtures, and 2 outlets. The right breaker doesn't control anything that I know of as everything stays powered up when it's off. I want to add a power strip to each of my 2 work benches and protect them using the right breaker. Can anyone tell me which wire goes where in order to get power from the right breaker? The bottom wire is the incoming and top is outgoing.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well the breaker on the right has no wire on it so it shouldnt be powering anything.

Before u add circuits u have some issues with the feeder.

Thats a 12/3 NM-B wire aka Romex and NM-b isnt permitted for use underground or outside PERIOD. Does this wire splice into another wire in a junction box somewhere?

Second, u have a 4-wire feed(2 hots, neutral and ground) but the panel has a bonded neutral/3-wire setup.

You also have no grounding electrodes as evidenced by no GEC on the ground bar.

Who installed all this? It clearly wasnt done properly!

This all needs to be fixed before u proceed with adding circuits...

 

[kd3pc]

Currently the right breaker is not connected to anything.

The colored wire goes to the bottom of the right breaker, the white to the neutral bar, to the right of the breaker block, as does the uncoated, copper wire. You will need to double up the gnd, under a lug that already has a ground wire under it.

BE CAREFUL, the question you pose indicates that you may be lacking some critical knowledge on wiring, electrical and the like. Done wrong this can be a safety or fire hazard, that may not rear it's head for some time.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Currently the right breaker is not connected to anything.

The colored wire goes to the bottom of the right breaker, the white to the neutral bar, to the right of the breaker block, as does the uncoated, copper wire. You will need to double up the gnd, under a lug that already has a ground wire under it.

BE CAREFUL, the question you pose indicates that you may be lacking some critical knowledge on wiring, electrical and the like. Done wrong this can be a safety or fire hazard, that may not rear it's head for some time.

Huh?

 

[kd3pc]

"Can anyone tell me which wire goes where in order to get power from the right breaker? The bottom wire is the incoming and top is outgoing."


Part One of the ??? ----- to feed the new circuit....the new red/black wire would go to the bottom of that breaker, under the screw head as shown in the picture. The feed is from the bus at the top, the load at the bottom. The gnd and neutral would tie to the bar.

I agree the pictures indicate a poor implementation, thus my comments to be Careful. To the OP, if the pic is oriented correctly, box top up? then you need to repair the wiring of the panel feed, it appears that one phase is fed from the top, and the other phase from the bottom. The output of that left breaker heads back in to the 12/3 multi circuit and is likely not to code, at all - if it uses that cables' neutral and ground?


In the future, a question is better than Huh?

 

[ItsNemo]

Well the breaker on the right has no wire on it so it shouldnt be powering anything.

Before u add circuits u have some issues with the feeder.

Thats a 12/3 NM-B wire aka Romex and NM-b isnt permitted for use underground or outside PERIOD. Does this wire splice into another wire in a junction box somewhere?

Second, u have a 4-wire feed(2 hots, neutral and ground) but the panel has a bonded neutral/3-wire setup.

You also have no grounding electrodes as evidenced by no GEC on the ground bar.

Who installed all this? It clearly wasnt done properly!

This all needs to be fixed before u proceed with adding circuits...

This. There's some issues that should be addressed first before you add on anything to this box.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Second, u have a 4-wire feed(2 hots, neutral and ground) but the panel has a bonded neutral/3-wire setup.

You also have no grounding electrodes as evidenced by no GEC on the ground bar.

Who installed all this? It clearly wasn't done properly!

True, it does not meet CURRENT code, but did it meet code when it was installed ?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

"Can anyone tell me which wire goes where in order to get power from the right breaker? The bottom wire is the incoming and top is outgoing."


Part One of the ??? ----- to feed the new circuit....the new red/black wire would go to the bottom of that breaker, under the screw head as shown in the picture. The feed is from the bus at the top, the load at the bottom. The gnd and neutral would tie to the bar.

I agree the pictures indicate a poor implementation, thus my comments to be Careful. To the OP, if the pic is oriented correctly, box top up? then you need to repair the wiring of the panel feed, it appears that one phase is fed from the top, and the other phase from the bottom. The output of that left breaker heads back in to the 12/3 multi circuit and is likely not to code, at all - if it uses that cables' neutral and ground?


In the future, a question is better than Huh?

Disregard the huh. I misread what u wrote..

Both feed wires come from the bottom. Its hard to see but there is 2 black wires on the left handside of the panel. One from the bottom goes to the bus lug. One from the top goes to the left breaker.

But this whole panel needs to be redone...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

True, it does not meet CURRENT code, but did it meet code when it was installed ?

No it never wouldve met ANY code- no ground rods and a 4-wire feed hooked to a 3-wire setup panel...Also, unless the indoor wire is spliced to outdoor wire somewhere, then that is incorrect as well. This is a hack job!!

Its amazing that someone actually used nm clamps....

 

[sberry]

The good news is there is short circuit protection and the enclosure isn't floating. The bed news is the netral currents will be going on the ground wire. To start with add a ground bar screwed to the can, move ground wires to it and remove the green bond screw.
I agree, this is a handyman install.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The good news is there is short circuit protection and the enclosure isn't floating. The bed news is the netral currents will be going on the ground wire. To start with add a ground bar screwed to the can, move ground wires to it and remove the green bond screw.
I agree, this is a handyman install.

Before any of that is done, the feeder needs to be changed...

 

[sberry]

True, it does not meet CURRENT code, but did it meet code when it was installed ?

Agree, never legal.

 

[bczygan]

Cute Pig!

And welcome to GJ!

This is a good opportunity to really set things right.

Think about all the tools you might EVER use in your garage/shop.

Air Compressor?

Welder?

Hand power tools?

Charger for battery tools?

Bench grinder?

Fan?

Air Conditioner?

Computer?

TV?

Woodworking tools?

Metalworking tools?

Etc....

Will you ever need really good lighting inside, and outside?

How about 240V equipment?

Outlets around the garage inside, along the walls and on the ceiling, and outside?

Might be a good time to install a real sub panel.

 

[bczygan]

And of course, as mentioned above, you could just attach a black wire to the breaker, the white to the neutral bar and the bare wire to where a bare wire already is.

Even though it isn't right, or totally safe, it would give you some power where you want it.

Bill

 

[tn_popo]

I just purchased the house a few months ago, it was built in 1940 but I'm not sure how old the garage is. The breaker box is as it was when I moved in.

 

[justsam]

What size breaker is feeding this small subpanel. It should be 20 Amp or less.

If you carefully measure the voltage between the top of the breakers, the red and black, do you see 240VAC?

With a little clean up to the things others have pointed out, this can be made usable, just not sure if a second circuit ever existed beyond this box.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

As everyone states address the grounding issues.
For your new circuit black to the breaker, white to the neutral, and the bare ground to the new ground bar.
Also you may need a GFCI outlet as the first outlet to have protection on the new circuit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I just purchased the house a few months ago, it was built in 1940 but I'm not sure how old the garage is. The breaker box is as it was when I moved in.

Since u have to have to change the feeder u might as well Change the panel to a larger one!