A reminder about the potential side effects from BrakeClean

[autopts]

This article may have come up in the past. I just thought a reminder might be in store for some of you out there. It was sent to me by someone who lurks this site but for some reason can't join due to IP or some other computer address issue.

Came across this looking for something unrelated. Brake parts cleaner is really powerful stuff as far as readily available solvents go, be sure not to weld surfaces that you may have cleaned with it. Would not want to go through what this guy did.


http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

 

[NC-Shaun]

Thank You, I did not know this.

 

[Dusty61]

is that the non-chlorinated stuff too? ill have to check the cans we have at work, i know that the stuff we have is pretty weak, at least it seems to me it is.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Holy sh!t We all need to read this and share on whatever social media sites we belong to....

 

[C96]

Thanks for posting, that story is really sad. I had no idea something like that could be so serious.

 

[zkling]

is that the non-chlorinated stuff too? ill have to check the cans we have at work, i know that the stuff we have is pretty weak, at least it seems to me it is.

No, the issue the guy had was that he heated tetrachloroethylene, the main ingredient in "standard" red can brake cleaner. When heated it creates phosgene gas, yea, that nasty *******, was used in both world wars as a chemical agent.

The "safe" advertised cleaners also called non-chlorinated do not use this ingredient, but instead a mix of mostly acetone, toluene, methane and a few others IIRC. It don't work quite a fast as the regular, but it is one heck of a lot safer from a chemical standpoint. Especially if you use it like this guy did for weld prep cleaning.

I hate to say it, but this guy's incident was due to a lack of information on his part. I'm glad everything turned out OK for him, but in reality he was using something for which it was not designed, which is not a problem if you know the possible outcomes.

 

[outdoorsman310]

wow! thanks for posting.

 

[Tsquare]

Thanks for the post - keep passing this on

 

[mark5767]

For me this more than a reminder, I had no idea a solvent could cause that kind of health damage when heated up. That is one hell of a scary article!

Thanks for sharing and I will keep this in mind and pass this on!

 

[B17E1943]

... I'm glad everything turned out OK for him ...

He doesn't really sound all that OK according to the 2nd-to-last paragraph.

 

[zkling]

He doesn't really sound all that OK according to the 2nd-to-last paragraph.

Hence my selection of the word OK, yea it's not the best outcome, but considering what happened and what he was exposed to it could be much much worse. The warning label directly even states this.

Do not place in direct sunlight or near any heat source. Do not use this product near open flames, welding operations or excessive heat. Vapors may decompose to harmful or fatal corrosive gasses such as hydrogen chloride and possibly phosgene.

FYI
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp

 

[Provincial]

This is the real story! I got a whiff from a piece I was welding that had been cleaned with brake cleaner and was fully dry when I welded it. I could hardly breathe for a minute or two , and didn't feel well for several hours! I always weld in well-ventilated areas, and that saved me in this case. If someone was in close quarters or hunched down close to their work, it could deliver a fatal dose very easily!

 

[arms1970]

Why would you use it for prep for welding? I'm a welder and would never think of using a chemical like brake cleaner to prep.

 

[cinco]

Well, that's a new one on me. I use tetrachloroethylene all the time cleaning watch and clock parts so I guess it's not particularly nasty under normal circumstances. But that story certainly gives one something to think about. I may consider limiting its use, but it's too good a solvent to give up entirely, and irreplaceable for some uses.

Fun fact: tetrachloroethylene is also used for dry-cleaning - I occasionally use it to take out a grease stain or two. Works great, though I'd recommend double-checking that whatever clothes you're using it on aren't on fire at the time.

 

[chris142]

Only non chlorinated stuff available in ca.

 

[Provincial]

Why would you use it for prep for welding? I'm a welder and would never think of using a chemical like brake cleaner to prep.

It was a used part that had been very greasy. The owner removed the grease before he brought it in, so it was clean as a whistle. I thought it would be an easy job since I didn't have to deal with oil/grease contamination.

 

[JZHeyde]

I just sent this out to everyone in our company. Its definitely not something to goof around about. We use a lot of brake cleaner here in our shop and do a small amount of fabrication. Very scary.

 

[mark5767]

Just a little tidbit from Wikipedia regarding the use of phosgene as a chemical weapon in WWI...

Although phosgene was never as notorious in public consciousness as mustard gas, it killed far more people, about 85% of the 100,000 deaths caused by chemical weapons during World War I.

 

[bahcoswed]

thanks so much for this info! I use brake cleaner all the time. I wonder how this cleaner can be so good, now I know! I have welded after cleaning with brake cleaner and thought it look cool when the chemical starts to puff white smoke WTF i am very scared after reading this, last time i welded a normal differential to a "burnout diff" in a car i was going to clean all the grease and oil from the differential house before welding, but the can was empty! I can for sure say that i would probably not be alive if the can was full so much smoke it came from the greasy diff when i started to weld! Ofcourse i empty the diffhouse from oil and ****, but you never get all out!

 

[Tsquare]

It would be a good idea for the moderator to make this thread a "Sticky"

 

[Horns]

This story has been around for a while. Unfortunately it is common practice to use brake clean on weld joints in a lot of automotive shops. Acetone is the ONLY chemical that should be used to clean a weld joint.

~Via Mobile

 

[mrjaw14]

If you're not welding...just using it as a cleaner in normal circumstances, is the chlorinated brake clean still bad? What are the effects if you get it on your skin? I always try to wear gloves, but sometimes they tear and I don't put new ones and get it on me. I've wondered if that was a cancer causing agent or anything like that

 

[b-body-bob]

I was at a local garage talking to the owner and he was cleaning the floor by spraying red-can brakleen on grease spots.

 

[LG63]

I've read about this before but I've never understood how it can occur after the tetrachloroethylene has evaporated. Isn't one of the main advantages of tetrachloroethylene is that it leaves no residue?

 

[netbrad]

Another issue is how long he waited to go to the hospital. Maybe his outcome would have been better with immediate treatment. I'm glad he shared his story despite what he went through.

 

[0.511MeV]

I'm absolutely shocked that this is news to people still. Cutting and welding is dangerous and you really need to know what you are doing. It also never fails to surprise me when we get a new welder at work and they are amazed that they aren't allowed to use their own welding mask. They have to wear ours that have respirators built in. Just about all the metals we work with have toxicity issues; cobalt, thorium, copper, zinc, cadmium, lead, tin, etc.

 

[NHBandit]

Several years ago I had a similar experience as far as not being able to breathe for a couple minutes and having the same after effects though not as serious. In my case I had sprayed some brake clean into the carb of a running engine because I was out of carb cleaner and I foolishly assumed it was pretty much the same stuff.. Thought for those couple of minutes that I had killed myself.

 

[mark5767]

I'm absolutely shocked that this is news to people still. Cutting and welding is dangerous and you really need to know what you are doing. It also never fails to surprise me when we get a new welder at work and they are amazed that they aren't allowed to use their own welding mask. They have to wear ours that have respirators built in. Just about all the metals we work with have toxicity issues; cobalt, thorium, copper, zinc, cadmium, lead, tin, etc.

There's also the sentiment out there that welding is easy and fun and anyone can do it, just pick up a consumer grade MIG and you're rolling!

This could also be an issue just using a handheld torch to heat up a frozen fastener, so it could happen under a number of circumstances, not just welding.

Vapors may decompose to harmful or fatal corrosive gasses such as hydrogen chloride and possibly phosgene.

The warning label kind of understates things a bit unless you know how dangerous phosgene is. Seems like everything says it may be harmful or fatal if something goes awry, but phosgene is a real killer even in very small amounts... I don't think that's common knowledge to your average garage guy.

I can't recall now but was it the reaction with argon that causes it decompose to phosgene? Anyway, some sort of statement that phosgene gas is extremely toxic and will do permanent, irreversible damage to your health if inhaled even in the smallest amounts might start to get people's attention.

For me, general warnings don't get my attention, there are just too many out there these days. But if it's specific and detailed, then I pay attention. That's why this is such a valuable post, it has a lot of details about what went wrong and the aftermath so it makes for a powerful lesson. Thanks again for sharing!

 

[mrjaw14]

since everything causes cancer in the state of California it's hard to take a warning label seriously when just about everything has one..hell they stuck a "may cause cancer" label on me when I got off the plane in San Francisco last year.

 

[nehog]

... he heated tetrachloroethylene, the main ingredient in "standard" red can brake cleaner. When heated it creates phosgene gas, ...

Heat has little to do with it. The reaction is created because of the UV light from welding, not the heat.

This story has been around for a long time, it is worth repeating, and the cans do have a warning about this, IIRC.

 

[BearCuda]

That's some crazy ****. So I used to use the old style brake clean as a bug torch. Should I not have done that,lol? What was it that they changed in brake clean years ago? It used to be super flammable and not so much anymore. I used the old stuff to great effect one time with a huge wasp nest under my deck one year. There were at least a hundred of them on this nest. One big blast from brake clean and they hit the ground, dead right now. The newer stuff will still kill bugs but it takes them a few seconds to die unlike the old blend.

 

[4x4gearhead]

It's mind blowing how a small puff of smoke can about kill you in a matter of hours. Makes you wonder what other crazy chemicals are hiding in a lot of everyday things we use.

 

[silviaboy89]

goddamn this is crazy

 

[zkling]

Heat has little to do with it. The reaction is created because of the UV light from welding, not the heat.

This story has been around for a long time, it is worth repeating, and the cans do have a warning about this, IIRC.

Nope. : Heat has everything to do with it. It causes the chemical to decompose into phosgene and something else nasty. Right around ~550°F IIRC. If you don't believe me look it up. It will VERY slowly decompose to UV, but again as I said initially the issue here was the heat.

 

[General Geoff]

I'm presuming the Argon had little to do with the chemical reaction, being a noble gas...

 

[carcajou]

I'm absolutely shocked that this is news to people still. Cutting and welding is dangerous and you really need to know what you are doing. It also never fails to surprise me when we get a new welder at work and they are amazed that they aren't allowed to use their own welding mask. They have to wear ours that have respirators built in. Just about all the metals we work with have toxicity issues; cobalt, thorium, copper, zinc, cadmium, lead, tin, etc.

Shocked are you? Well i have been farming for over 30 years and this is the first time i've heard about it. Yes i have cleaned greasy parts off with brakekleen and welded them right up. I really appreciate the OP posting this.