A shop in Bourbon County

[jwvess00]

Hi there!

I bought my house last October, after living in a house I built in Lexington, KY for 14 years. I liked that house but the attached garage was too small for what I wanted to do, and I really wanted more land around me than I had. So I bought a 2.25 acre property in rural Bourbon County. Still not far from work, but out in the country similar to how I grew up. The house is bigger than what I had, but this isn't House Journal

The property has a 36x50 pole barn on it, built by the previous owner in 2004. He used it to wrench on old Jeeps.

I'm going to use the building to work on cars/trucks/motorcycles/whatever, and I also do woodworking -- mostly building furniture and such. The shop is not set up for that, so I'm going to make it my own.

The plan -- divide the building into two spaces -- one approximately 32x36 for the auto/mechanical stuff; and the other approximately 18x36 for the woodshop.

It is a pole barn, with 6x6 wood posts, truss roof, metal exterior, and concrete floor. There is water and 100A electrical service to the building. It is wrapped in thin vinyl-backed insulation but the inside is otherwise unfinished. It has two windows, one entrance door, and two 9' garage doors with openers.

Pics to follow.

 

[jwvess00]

Hi there!

Here's the front of the shop:

There used to be three rooms total -- one 10' wide, a small bathroom in the back, and the main area:

I rented a 30 yard dumpster and ripped all of that out.

After doing some repair to the floor, Dad and I coated it with epoxy primer and "SD" epoxy coating from Legacy Industrial:

 

[jwvess00]

Hi there!

After a week or so, I'm going to move on to the next step, installing a ceiling.

I asked on here about doing that and was given the sage advice to talk to a structural engineer to make sure the trusses could stand the dead load of a ceiling. So, I paid an engieer $450 for an inspection. I also found out that the previous owner never pulled any permits to build the shop

The trusses are on 5 foot centers (yuck) and the 6x6 posts are on 10 foot centers. There is nothing tying the trusses together. The engineer said he wanted three continuous beams (2x4s) tying the panel points of the trusses together; he wanted knee braces on the back wall; he wanted an additional 2x10 along the back wall where the trusses sit; and he wanted a 2x4 attached to each roof purlin (forming an L or T) to reinforce the prulins for roof loads. He also wanted hurricane clips (there weren't any in the building).

He said with the reinforcements that the trusses could hold a ceiling and insulation above it without issue.

So, my next project is to do all of that. I'm going to add more than the recommended inter-truss bracing to use as nailers for the ceiling. I think I'm going to go with OSB on the ceiling but I may yet do drywall.

I will also be erecting the partition wall, and adding wiring and lighting to the shop. For the exterior walls, I will be adding studs between the posts so I can add a finished wall. I plan to use blown insulation in the attic and walls.

More photos as work goes on.

 

[Bib Overalls]

Sounds like you are stick framing a building inside an existing pole building. A lot of work and additional materials. But it wouldn't be your shop if you used it the way you found it.

Are you on Kentucky Lake? Nice part of the country.

 

[Lone Star Blaze]

great space hope to see what comes of it.
I went through your part of the country back in May to and from my grandmothers hometown in NE Kentucky. Beautiful country hope to be back in a couple of years

 

[jwvess00]

Hi there!

Sounds like you are stick framing a building inside an existing pole building. A lot of work and additional materials. But it wouldn't be your shop if you used it the way you found it.

Are you on Kentucky Lake? Nice part of the country.

If I had built from scratch I would have just stick-built the shop rather than finish the interior of a pole barn, but I'm working with what I have.

I'm about 15 miles northeast of Lexington, so not close to Kentucky Lake.

 

[ZRX61]

How come the lack of permits didn't show up when you did the paperwork to buy the place or during the home inspection etc?

 

[sean Buick 76]

Great platform to work with!!! Smart idea to split up the areas for wood and auto.

The floor looks great!

Very good idea getting the engineer in to suggest some upgrades!!! That will save you a HUGE potential issue down the road and if or when you sell you can be confident the shop is done right!

 

[MacTexas]

I too am impressed you paid a structural engineer to check your building. Probably the best money you ever spent.

Looks like you are off to a good start. I like your floor.

 

[jwvess00]

Hi there!

How come the lack of permits didn't show up when you did the paperwork to buy the place or during the home inspection etc?

I don't think that's something that is normally checked during the buying process. It never came up from my agent, the bank, or anyone else, and I never thought about it. If I buy another property in the future I will do that legwork myself.

I suspect the previous owner built most of the shop himself, but hired out having the electrical run from the house to the shop and probably a few other things.

When I decided to hire an engineer, I first talked to one that was really too busy to do the job but suggested I check with the county to see who pulled the permits, and talk to them to see what company built the trusses, etc. That's when I found out that there was never a building permit. Then I found the engineer I hired to do the inspection, and he did the inspection and gave me a signed, notarized report to go with it detailing what he saw and what he recommended I do.

 

[Po'Boy]

Nice to see a fellow Kentuckian on the board. I used to work out of Lex and was in Paris several times per week for a few years. Keep the updates coming, and nice shop.

Matt

 

[jwvess00]

Hi there!

A photo of what I've been doing so far.

An update. I've been adding 2x4s between each truss bottom chord. Each space between two trusses is about 5' OC but it varies truss-to-truss and also along the trusses. The engineer wanted multiple continuous load paths tying the bottom chords together, and I needed a lot of lumber to which to attach the ceiling material, so I fitted a 2x4 2' OC between each pair of trusses. Each one was toenailed in with 3" ring-shank galvanized nails in a pneumatic nailer. I wouldn't have used such a serious nail but that's what was locally available. Ordering nails online is a choice but shipping nails isn't cheap.

That means fitting about 18 2x4s between each pair of trusses, and there are 10 such pairs to make a 50' building, so, lots of cutting and fitting. Each one had to be fit individually since the spacing varied too much within any two trusses to just set up a stop block and cut the lumber.

I ordered 350 10' 2x4s for all of the framing work I'm doing. The driver delivered it and unloaded the "pallet" (which wasn't much of a pallet). Unfortunately they wouldn't fit through the shop doors as they were stacked, and he couldn't pick it up with the forklift from the other side, so I had to carry all of them into the shop by myself. That was about 90 minutes of grunt work.

I also bought 5 10' 2x10s to add to the existing 2x10s along the back wall, also requested by the engineer. That forms, essentially, a 4x10 beam across the back. I can't do that along the front with everything that's in the way (i.e. the doors and their tracks) but he only asked to do that along the back so I'm not worried about it.

I've also been adding hurricane ties. Again, the front is problematic but I've added them to each truss on the back wall, and I'm adding one to each post along the sides, too. I'd love to have them along the front, but that's not going to work out. Some is better than none in this case, I think.

That photo doesn't show bracing under the garage door openers. I wasn't sure if I could fit the 2x4s there without interfering with the openers, and lowering the openers would cause the door to hit the opener rail. Since the photo was taken, I've figured out that it will work and have added the 2x4s.

Right now I'm adding 2x4s for top and bottom plates between the posts, so I can then add studs. This will let me have a finished wall inside. I also need to add a "strongback" to each purlin, per the engineer's request, for increased snow load. With all of the lumber I've already put in, I'll have plenty of support (I hope!) to lay some plywood up there to kneel on while I nail 2x4s perpendicular to the purlins (making them into an "L" shape) to help them resist bending under load. Since these won't need to be snugly fitted between the trusses, I'm hoping I can cut a bunch of them at once, haul them up there, nail them in place, and keep going. We'll see once I get started.

 

[hoho98925]

I too am impressed you paid a structural engineer to check your building. Probably the best money you ever spent.

Looks like you are off to a good start. I like your floor.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said. The cost of the engineer is cheap insurance. Too many people buy a building and because its already there assume its up to snuff, or modify roof structures thinking they know how the roof is designed. Yes its costing you time and money to upgrade. but your not going to wake up one morning to the roof sitting on all your prize possessions. Congratulations!

 

[GRN96WS6]

Looks like a nice building, one of these days I hope to have something similar.

 

[jwvess00]

Hi there!

I just finished framing the shop walls.

I added top and bottom 2x4s between each post, then 2x4s 2' on center vertically. flush with the posts so the wall covering will go over the posts and the 2x4s.

Here's a shot during framing, but not yet complete (and no partition wall)

I added a partition wall that runs the entire 36' width of the building. One side is 17'x36', and will be my wood shop. The 33'x36' side is where the automotive work will happen. That split was dictated by my wanting at least 16' in the wood shop to allow passing an 8' piece of material over a blade, and also by the existing placement of a window and the garage doors.

The previous owner had a partition wall in the building but not in the place I wanted it, so it was removed during demolition. He had a used set of doors there, which I saved. They need some work -- the joints are opening a bit, and they do not hang right in their frame (the hinge mortises look like they've been "adjusted" before) but it's nothing I can't fix. The nice thing about these doors is that they both open completely flat against the wall, making a 4' opening.

To build that wall, I nailed 10' 2x4s along the ceiling using mason's line to keep it relatively straight. A tape measure and a plumb bob helped me get the matching 2x4s on the floor in (almost) the right place. The bottom 2x4 plate was glued to the floor using construction adhesive. The floor is so strangely sloped that the distance between the floor and celing fluctuate.

I built a wall section, then stood it up into place, added shims where necessary, and nailed it up. It's a very solid wall. That method is also why there's 2 2x4s on the bottom and the top of a fairly simple partiton wall, but it made things go much faster and easier.

Here's a shot of the doors framed in that partition wall.

I have since added a vertical 2x4 in the center of the opening between the doors, tying the 4x4 at the top of the door frame to the top plate. That's a 4x4 there because the previous owner used that when he installed those doors the last time, and I didn't bother to remove that lumber when I removed the doors.

Next is cutting 2x4s to nail to the purlins as bracing (forming an L or T, depending on how things go). The trusses are 5' OC, and the engineer that I hired to inspect the building was worried about snow load. I don't think it's a problem but I didn't pay him to ignore his advice, so I'm bracing the purlins. I am not looking forward to crawling around in the attic space.

I am looking forward to doing the wiring and hanging the ceiling, then having it insulated, then adding lights and wall covering.

 

[jwvess00]

Hi there!

A quick update -- I've finished wiring the shop's outlets and roughed in the lighting wiring.

The shop now has 12 120V outlets in the automotive side. Four down each side wall, three across the back, and one between the doors. Oh, and two in the ceiling for the openers.

The wood shop side also has 12 120V outlets -- four down each side wall, two on the back wall, and two on the front wall.

The auto shop has 4 240V outlets. One on the back wall, one on each side wall, and one in the corner for the air compressor. All are 20A outlets. My welder is 240V, so these outlets will help give me some flexibility in where I can use the welder.

The wood shop side has three 240V outlets. One on the back wall is dedicated to the radial arm saw. One on each side wall lets me plug in my 6" jointer (wired for 240V) on either side. The jointer has heavy casters for mobility, so it can be easily moved out for plenty of room on either side of it when I'm using it, then tucked away for storage.

 

[Madhatter10-6]

Really nice shop. I live in Lexington.....Paris is such a pretty place to live. Anxious to see your finished product.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Is it true that Bourbon County is a "dry" county ?

 

[Ron's_Shed]

Nice place! Living in versailles which is like paris, nice land y'all got up there, looking forward to seeing more.
Cheers Ron.

 

[JohnK007]

Great job you're doing there. Very methodical and professional. One thing I can't quite visualize is what you mean when you say you have to make a T or L brace to the purlins. Can you take a shot of that when it's done? I'm sure once I see it I'll slap myself in the forehead and say "Doh!" but right now I can't "see" what you mean.

 

[Stretch-22]

Looks great so far! I used to live in Louisville, spent lots of time driving the roads between there and Lexington. I miss them!

 

[jwvess00]

An update:

I've got the ceiling in the wood shop side up. 7/16" OSB, smooth side as the finish side. I nailed it in place with my framing nailer. 2 3/8" exterior nails, overkill but that's what they had in stock locally.

I'm currently working on the auto shop side now.

I also added 10 twin-tube 4' fluorescent T8 fixtures. I may add more along the back over the radial arm saw, and maybe one up front to match.

 

[jwvess00]

Great job you're doing there. Very methodical and professional. One thing I can't quite visualize is what you mean when you say you have to make a T or L brace to the purlins. Can you take a shot of that when it's done? I'm sure once I see it I'll slap myself in the forehead and say "Doh!" but right now I can't "see" what you mean.

I also installed some of the purlin braces -- 3 rows of 18, over the wood shop, once I finished the ceiling.

This shot is of the purlins as I lay on my back in the attic space over the wood shop. The 2x4 purlin brace is screwed via 3" screws to the purlins on the left of the photo, and no bracing is on the purlins on the right.

 

[jwvess00]

Is it true that Bourbon County is a "dry" county ?

Hello,

No, Bourbon County is not dry. There are liquor stores in town, and beer at Wal-Mart. I grew up in a dry county, and it was a bit weird for me when I moved to Lexington to go to U.K. and saw beer in the grocery store.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Sweet build Mr. V!

 

[jwvess00]

I have finished hanging the OSB on the ceiling in the auto shop side, which completes hanging the ceiling. I still have to trim out around the attic access, fill some gaps around the garage door track bracing, etc. but it's mostly done.

I also finished installing the lights. I was going to install 20 (4 rows, 5 each) of the Metalux T8 2 tube 4' fluorescent fixtures, but they wouldn't fit under the roll-up garage doors -- but just barely. I had installed 16 fixtures, and I was considering putting a bit of a tray in the ceiling but at the last minute decided against it. Instead I bought 4 low profile wrap fixtures (2 bulb T8, 4' long) that do fit under the doors. They don't match the Metalux but it's not too bad (they do form their own row along the front, so it's not *too* odd looking). It's functional.

A bad cell phone shot of the work, made worse by the camera angle making the lights look uneven. They are much more evenly spaced than the photo suggests.

The resulting light

 

[jwvess00]

I've made some progress. I sheathed the partition wall with OSB on one side (the wood shop side) so that wall could be insulated. I want to insulate that wall, even though it's an interior wall, so if I only heat one side I won't lose as much heat to the unheated side. Sheathing that wall on one side gives me a backing for insulation.

 

[jwvess00]

I wasn't sure what insulation I wanted to use. I had trouble getting an insulation contractor to return my call, and only one quoted me for either spray foam or blown cellulose (or a mix). It was a good quote and if it were for my house it would be fine, but ultimately too expensive for my shop budget. I ended up buying Roxul rock wool insulation.

The Roxul insulation has been discussed on GJ before. I insulated the partition wall in about an hour and a half. It's a 2x4 wall with 24" OC stud spacing.

The stuff cuts easily with a serrated bread knife. It's like filling you walls with pound cake It is flexible but the 4' long bats can be broken if you're not careful, so don't get carried away with manhandling them. It isn't as itchy as fiberglass, but it is not itch-free and it is dusty, so I wore a dust mask and nitrile gloves.

 

[jwvess00]

Yesterday I insulated the wood shop side. It's a mess right now but the walls are mostly insulated. I did not insulate around the windows (there are two, only one is visible in this photo). I have a water leak on one of them, and I'm not sure about the other since it was hidden behind packs of insulation for our last heavy rain. I think the water is coming in along the underside of the moving section of window, where the gasket looks damaged. I only noticed the leak after a really heavy rain. I'm hoping that fixing that gasket fixes the issue, and I'll complete the wood shop side. It took me working by myself one afternoon to do the work plus about 30 minutes this afternoon. It goes pretty quick once you get into a rhythm.

The walls are 2x4 studs, flush with the 6x6 posts. That plus the girt depth makes for a 2x8 wall section but it's not even. I was worried that I would have to cut around each girt (ugh) but tried installing it without doing that. It looks to be conforming around the girts nicely. Sure, it's more compressed in those spots and that's not ideal, but I don't think it's going to render the work useless. There are also gaps behind the studs. I don't like that, but there was no good way to fill that space without significant work. That's definitely not ideal but again, I'm hoping it's okay for what I'm doing with the shop.

 

[jwvess00]

The vinyl-faced fiberglass wrap that was put on when the previous owner built the place was just as mess. It looked like rodents had gotten to it at one point, and it was harboring a few bugs. So I removed all of it I could from the exterior walls.

I noticed the corrugation on the steel siding seemed to me to be a channel where bugs or mice could try to get in, so I filled the spaces with "insect-control" Great Stuff spray foam, and caulked all along the sill. I also sprayed the sill and about 3' up each frame member with Bifen XTS insecticide to try to prevent future problems.

If you look in the previous photo of the wood shop insulation, you can (sort-of) see under the window where I've removed the old vinyl-faced fiberglass wrap and caulked/foamed around the sill. I have on loan a pneumatic caulk gun (Chicago Pneumatic CP9885) which is fantastic. Definitely buy one of these if you have any amount of caulking to do.

 

[jwvess00]

A lot has happened since July but I haven't taken the time to update the thread.

I finally, I hope, sealed up around the windows. There were gaps between the window and the frame, and gaps between the window and the siding, all allowing water to enter the structure. I sealed all of that with a variety of silicone caulk and adhesive rubbery membrane used to water-seal roofing. After garden-hose and rain testing it appears to be holding so I finished insulating the walls.

Then I finished hanging the OSB on the walls. Here's some sample shots:
Back wall of the auto shop side:

Back wall of the wood shop side. Note I had to box in around the plumbing that was installed by the previous owner. The box has insulation behind it between the box and the metal siding.

A two-wall view in the wood shop showing (sort-of) the windows, entry door, and how I hung the dust filter on the ceiling.

 

[jwvess00]

Currently all of the OSB is hung on the walls. I am running out of time to paint before the average outside temperature at night falls too low to paint. It would probably be okay with the insulation I have in the walls (and I haven't insulated in the attic yet) but I'm not sure I want to risk it. So, I'm currently painting the ceiling, and will paint the walls in the spring. I can "move in" and use the shop with just the ceiling painted. Once everything's in, I can still paint the walls but painting the ceiling with everything moved in would be challenging so I want to get the ceiling painted first and soon.

I have the ceiling primered with oil-base Zinnser. I used an 18" roller, which really made it go faster. So far I'm in for a bit more than 7 gallons in 1800 square feet of ceiling. I just finished trimming out the ceiling edges and around the lights, etc. today, and ran out of primer. I didn't want to go to the next town over to get more Zinnser, so I ran to Wal-Mart and bought a quart of Kilz original (also oil based). I can say that I like the Zinnser better. It seems to go on better, to me. I still need to trim out the wood shop side, then I can paint.

The ceiling is not nearly as nice as it would be if it were drywall, mostly because even though it's 7/16" OSB and it was well-acclimated to the shop, it still isn't dead flat so there's some edge-waves in it. I knew that going in. I traded the impact resistance, etc. of OSB for the attractiveness of finished drywall. I've spent the last 20+ years in shops with OSB on the walls, so I'm used to its appearance.

The ceiling is also not completely finished, either, in that there are some gaps and such that I still need to fill. Again, I'm exchanging time for appearance. I figured that I can either paint the ceiling and get moved in now, or have to put off really moving in until I can paint it properly in the spring. I have some trim to add around the windows, etc. anyway, which will be easier with my wood shop up and running again, so I can do touch-up/repair to the painted ceiling after I move in without too much trouble.

After the ceiling, the next big item is insulating the attic, which will be blown in. I still need to sort out venting the attic space first, though. It's a pole barn so the original owner didn't bother venting it (it had no ceiling), and there's no roof overhang anywhere, so no soffits. Ideas on venting are welcome. I have an old thread on it I need to re-read as well.

 

[jwvess00]

I've got the ceiling painted. 5-6 gallons of Behr white paint+primer. I only wanted to put on one coat, so I hoped that the oil-based primer plus the paitn-with-primer would be sufficient. It appears to have covered nicely.

If things go according to plan, tomorrow I'm going to start moving stuff from the attached garage (where it looks like I stood at the door and threw things in there...) into the shop. I still don't have storage/cabinets/etc. in the shop yet, but having all of my tools and woodworking equipment in the shop should make it easier to build what I need.