A "welding technology has left me behind" question

[ssdave]

I'm looking at welding technology. I trained as a welder 40 years ago. Have welded only incidentally since then, currently own a Forney ac farmer welder (one of the better ones), a small 110 mig, and a dialarc 250 with HF and tig. Haven't used any of them much for the past 2 years as I haven't had much of a shop.

Building a new shop. I will do minor car repair; probably very little except routine as I tend to have top condition vehicles. Will do some light fabrication, primarily shop improvement projects.

What I will use a welder for, more than anything else, is gunsmithing fabrication. So, really need precise TIG. Dialarc 250 is a lot too much machine for that, and has rudimentary controls. 40 years ago, was a decent answer, today is a industrial strength dinosaur.

I'm beginning to look a bit at smaller, portable machines. Looked at a Lincoln Square Wave 200 today. Did some research, and it appears to have a severe limitation in the pulse. 1-20 Pulse per second range. Some quick research says that 100 to 500 is a more usable range to focus arc, reduce heat dissipation, and minimize weld bead metal. All good things in small work.

I have a few alternatives; I could buy a dedicated TIG machine with better control, smaller amperage capability and increased pulse range and meet most of my needs. I could then either keep the Forney farmer welder or keep the dialarc to stick weld with. The dialarc would be a good choice because of the dc capabiity, as well as the hf. I have the room and the electrical capacity, so that would work.

I could also look at a multi-capable machine, and get rid of my present welders to finance some of the cost, and free up a lot of shop space.

What would be a good machine to get, and what cost range to get good capabilities? The features I see I could most use are small amperage capability, wide pulse frequency and characteristic control, AD/DC, and versatile foot and programmable or adjustable controls.

It would be nice to be able to weld up to 3/8" steel for projects, but that's not essential, and I could keep one of the other machines to meet that need if there was a good advantage to a dedicated TIG.

Budget is open ended, but I don't do enough work to pay for an extremely costly machine. I can afford one, but it wouldn't be cost effective.

 

[pi_guy]

I bought my first welder a dial arc in 1978.
That machine is still functioning in a shop today.
About 8 years ago bought Miller Dynasty 200 two years ago bought Miller multimatic 200 so I can mig Al.
The dynasty has yet to not be up to the job. With the exception of a large oil pan for a cat more the issue was not being able to preheat it.

 

[txvwnut]

Look at AHP AlphTIG200 lotta welder for a little cash and will do everything you ask of it.

 

[trackwelder]

Have you stopped by your local welding shop to see what they sell and service?
I personally like to stick with the big names for service and parts. Miller,Lincoln,Hobart,Esab all have factory service centers throughout the country. I recently replaced a 150s that I bought well over ten years ago that had one issue within the first year. Dropped it off at the service center and picked it up in a week. The off brand,service lacking machines have no interest to me.

 

[ssdave]

No local shop, so will probably just go red or blue; worth paying a bit more for service and parts availability. Was all set to do the Lincoln 200 square wave, but got put off by the pulse maxing out at 20, and the amperage only going down to 10A. A lot of people out there saying you need 150hz or more pulse for aluminum and ss. However, I probably will rarely do ss, and never or almost never do aluminum. I want pulse for heat control for small stuff.

So, started looking for lower amperage and higher pulse frequency. Some other machines have that, but many of them lose foot pedal control, lose pulse characteristic control, and lose hf start. So, lose features to gain features. Almost coming to the conclusion that the square wave 200 features of pulse characteristic control and hf and foot pedal will outweigh higher pulse frequency and lower amperage.

Still nervous about it; higher pulse frequency would help with arc stability and precision, as would lower amperage. But, foot pedal control and hf start and pulse negate some of the concerns about 10 amp minimum; and control.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I'd keep the dialarc, when the computer driven magic machine is having issues, it will still work. Even more so with the multi process machines as when one is in the shop you lose all capabilities.

 

[brownbagg]

on the multi process machines, they do all process good but not all great. some are a better flux core, or arc but not tig, some are better tig that arc. These machines are made to be light in weight and not take up room. on pulse, not many are using this option except the high dollar machines in fab shops. dedicated tig machines are not that expensive, miller has some good ones around $1500. I have a miller 180 that almost do anything. I would recommend a 220 volt machine.

 

[Forney_Technical]

I'm looking at welding technology. I trained as a welder 40 years ago. Have welded only incidentally since then, currently own a Forney ac farmer welder (one of the better ones), a small 110 mig, and a dialarc 250 with HF and tig. Haven't used any of them much for the past 2 years as I haven't had much of a shop.

Building a new shop. I will do minor car repair; probably very little except routine as I tend to have top condition vehicles. Will do some light fabrication, primarily shop improvement projects.

What I will use a welder for, more than anything else, is gunsmithing fabrication. So, really need precise TIG. Dialarc 250 is a lot too much machine for that, and has rudimentary controls. 40 years ago, was a decent answer, today is a industrial strength dinosaur.

I'm beginning to look a bit at smaller, portable machines. Looked at a Lincoln Square Wave 200 today. Did some research, and it appears to have a severe limitation in the pulse. 1-20 Pulse per second range. Some quick research says that 100 to 500 is a more usable range to focus arc, reduce heat dissipation, and minimize weld bead metal. All good things in small work.

I have a few alternatives; I could buy a dedicated TIG machine with better control, smaller amperage capability and increased pulse range and meet most of my needs. I could then either keep the Forney farmer welder or keep the dialarc to stick weld with. The dialarc would be a good choice because of the dc capabiity, as well as the hf. I have the room and the electrical capacity, so that would work.

I could also look at a multi-capable machine, and get rid of my present welders to finance some of the cost, and free up a lot of shop space.

What would be a good machine to get, and what cost range to get good capabilities? The features I see I could most use are small amperage capability, wide pulse frequency and characteristic control, AD/DC, and versatile foot and programmable or adjustable controls.

It would be nice to be able to weld up to 3/8" steel for projects, but that's not essential, and I could keep one of the other machines to meet that need if there was a good advantage to a dedicated TIG.

Budget is open ended, but I don't do enough work to pay for an extremely costly machine. I can afford one, but it wouldn't be cost effective.

Hi ssdave, this is Gabby with Forney Technical Services. We do offer a 220 AC/DC TIG machine. It is a dedicated TIG machine and does meet the characteristics you're looking for. The 220 AC/DC TIG kit retails for $2,499.99 and you can find more information here: https://www.forneyind.com/products/welding/tig/tig-machines/forney-220-ac-dc-tig-kit

 

[ssdave]

Thanks, Gabby;

Looked at your link; that machine has fair capabilities to compete for what I want. Your spec sheets are missing key pieces of information that a person needs to make a decision. Pulse range, minimum amperage are the two critical ones that I needed.

I ended up buying a Lincoln square wave 200 Pulse. Got one used in excellent condition, ended up trading my Forney farmer welder, an OA torch set, and some cash for it and ended up in the setup, with argon bottle included, for about $900. It will let me experiment and see if I need a more adjustable machine. I'll continue to try to get more info on your machine; it might be a good replacement if the Lincoln won't do what I need.

 

[rsanter]

Personally I would keep the dialarc, buy a small TIG gun for it, crank it down and go easy on the pedal for the lighter stuff. I don’t see why that machine can’t do the lighter stuff

 

[helterskelter]

You don't need pulse to weld thin stuff. Pulse is neat and has its applications but definitely isn't required for precision welding. I'd be more concerned about the low end amperage and what it lights off at. Ideally you'd want something closer to ~5amps (something like a dynasty 210 goes down to 1amps).

You might find the SW200 at 10amps is a little aggressive on light off for really delicate stuff. I'm not sure how delicate of items you plan on welding but to summarize I would prioritize low end amperage over pulse features for precision work.

 

[ssdave]

Thanks, helterskelter; your recommendation is exactly what I was thinking of in my question; the SW200 at 10 amps is a bit much. However, it has a soft start feature so it starts the arc and then immediately drops the current. That will help a bit. If it doesn't work well enough; I'll go to a dedicated smaller amperage TIG. At the price for the SW200 I couldn't really pass it up. I needed the tank for the Miller dialarc anyway.

rsanter, the problem with the dialarc is the MINIMUM amperage is 30. A pedal won't drop that; it will drop it from more than that down to the minimum. It can do lighter stuff; it's just a lot harder to control with a floor of 30 amps. No complaints about that machine; it is a great one and highly capable. Just too big for some of the things I want to do.

 

[helterskelter]

You'll probably find that 10amps is perfectly acceptable for what you need. You have to be down to really thin stuff and edges before low amperage becomes that big of a deal. It's probably a little overstated because the vast majority of people never work on stuff so delicate that low end amps is a critical feature.

30amps on the dialarc however is basically unusable on thin materials.