nadogail
Well-known member
The volume of the pipes in your air supply system can act like a storage tank, more storage generally means a more consistent supply pressure.
?? About air lines in shop
- Thread starter Ran58
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engineer2
Well-known member
When we built my employer's 12,000 sq ft plant I was in charge of the air system. We did a perimeter loop in 1" copper with a run down the middle. Up-and-over 1/2" drops where needed for workstations. Sloped to a low corner with a drop to the exterior for purging any water in case the air dryer failed. Built a panel for dual alternating compressors with hour meters, manual switches, power monitoring, filter, timed drain, regulator, and a refrigerated air dryer. Been working great since 1999 except for another engineer who installed air hoses and couplings which are a major source of leaks. If he would have asked, I would have piped copper to his department's work benches.
I think in this context, the loop does not have an end.
Metal-Marc
Well-known member
Isn't a "loop" with an end a "hook"?
I'm installing a loop in my shop where both ends connect together. The compressor is a drop just like any of the tool/hose drops. The air can travel either/both directions around the loop to the tool. I assume this is what everyone means when saying loop. If it has a start and end that are not connected, I'd probably just call that a run of pipe instead of a loop.
I got a great price on surplus 1" stainless pipe from a plant for my loop, it was almost half of the going rate for black pipe at the time and with the recent price increases I'm even happier with what I paid. I just need to get the interior sheeting done so I can install it. I'm not especially excited about cutting/threading it but once it's done I'm sure I will be happy with it.
I got a great price on surplus 1" stainless pipe from a plant for my loop, it was almost half of the going rate for black pipe at the time and with the recent price increases I'm even happier with what I paid. I just need to get the interior sheeting done so I can install it. I'm not especially excited about cutting/threading it but once it's done I'm sure I will be happy with it.
I like stainless but is a PITA to work with, after it's done it will be worth it.
iamhomeless
Well-known member
Technically that is true, but it takes 24 feet of 1" ID to store a gallon. So your typical 30×40 most guys on here build will only get you another 5.7 gallons.
racecougar
Well-known member
Yep. If you use all 100' in one of the 3/4" Maxline kits, you've added a whopping 2.29 gallons to your system. It takes a LOT of line to make any appreciable volume increase.
I remember a buddy running air line in his home shop. I stopped by and he was hanging up 2" black pipe. I asked him if he was crazy, 2" main?! He told me that he had talked to someone and they told him to hang 2" because he would gain all this extra capacity. I did the math quick and asked him so, you have an 80 gallon compressor, and you got excited about adding 6 more gallons? (he put up about 40 feet!) He looked at me confused and said it was more than that! We went back and forth a bit, and by the time we were done he was pretty dejected that he had spent all that extra money and work to gain 6 gallons! Imagine 2" tees, couplers, and reducers. He told me he wished he had talked to me first and talked him out of it!
I told him a 3/4" main was more than enough for his use, 1/2" would have been fine. He was kicking in the dirt grumbling to himself when I left!
I told him a 3/4" main was more than enough for his use, 1/2" would have been fine. He was kicking in the dirt grumbling to himself when I left!
housewolf
Well-known member
I’d imagine he was! In my prime I wasn’t fond of 2” screw pipe. Anything larger was almost always welded. 1/2” & 3/4”, easy peasy, once you hit 1” it becomes exponentially more physical as you go upI remember a buddy running air line in his home shop. I stopped by and he was hanging up 2" black pipe. I asked him if he was crazy, 2" main?! He told me that he had talked to someone and they told him to hang 2" because he would gain all this extra capacity. I did the math quick and asked him so, you have an 80 gallon compressor, and you got excited about adding 6 more gallons? (he put up about 40 feet!) He looked at me confused and said it was more than that! We went back and forth a bit, and by the time we were done he was pretty dejected that he had spent all that extra money and work to gain 6 gallons! Imagine 2" tees, couplers, and reducers. He told me he wished he had talked to me first and talked him out of it!
I told him a 3/4" main was more than enough for his use, 1/2" would have been fine. He was kicking in the dirt grumbling to himself when I left!
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Math is hardI remember a buddy running air line in his home shop. I stopped by and he was hanging up 2" black pipe. I asked him if he was crazy, 2" main?! He told me that he had talked to someone and they told him to hang 2" because he would gain all this extra capacity. I did the math quick and asked him so, you have an 80 gallon compressor, and you got excited about adding 6 more gallons? (he put up about 40 feet!) He looked at me confused and said it was more than that! We went back and forth a bit, and by the time we were done he was pretty dejected that he had spent all that extra money and work to gain 6 gallons! Imagine 2" tees, couplers, and reducers. He told me he wished he had talked to me first and talked him out of it!
I told him a 3/4" main was more than enough for his use, 1/2" would have been fine. He was kicking in the dirt grumbling to himself when I left!
aqr81
Well-known member
I ran surface mounted copper lines in my first shop, with 4 drops including drip legs and ball valves along 46' wall. This shop is only 20' wide as that's all the room I had on side of house. The shop we are finishing at my son's will also have copper lines once run once equipment layout is finalized . The compressor and blast cabinet will be located outside on the west wall.
you can pretty much do anything with math, you be amaze at the people in my company that cant calculate anything, or read and write.
Nothing more fun than screwing 2" black pipe together while working from a ladder!
I installed a lot of gas pipe in my HVAC career.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I have a mix of RapidAir’s MaxLine and FastPipe. It has worked out great!
jeep63
Well-known member
I setup RapidAir's Maxline in my 2 car garage. I like it the ease of installation, but I did have to redo 2 fittings to fix leaks. I have a setup to help remove moisture that utilizes a small radiator, but I've not started that yet.
My Air Setup
My Air Setup
Smittybert
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I used max air system in most of our new shop. It was the quickest, easiest, most economical way. Used 2, 1/2” kits and 2 3/4” kits plus a bunch of extra fittings and extra hose. We use the air for some “clean” work and will be for cnc machines so I wanted something that will not corrode. In the other part of the shop where we didn’t need “clean” air I ran sch40 on unisturt mounts next to the electrical conduit for looks as I didn’t want blue wavy line in that area.
got my parts from northern tool, summit racing, or direct depending on price and when I needed it.
got my parts from northern tool, summit racing, or direct depending on price and when I needed it.
Last edited:
Smittybert
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If using max air stuff use Teflon tape and pipe dope the ntp threads are not the best sealing from them.
racecougar
Well-known member
...and a drop of oil on both the o-rings and the threads of the compression nut.
For 99% (or more) single 3/4" line is probably going to be overkill, a loop setup for the CFM of tool that most people have is pointless and more work to setup. If you want to save a bit on parts costs and are at the upper end of air consumption then maybe going with 1/2" and a loop might get you a bit of improvement.
The other sneaky bit you can do to offset line losses is to bump up your pressure in the system a bit and regulate at point of use. Most of your tools are intended to run at ~90psi if you feed them the needed CFM. I know some things are just more fun if you are running them at 140psi but you are well past the design parameters.
The only tool I own that I can tell I am starving for air is the 3/4" impact when at the end of two 50' 1/4" hoses, hammering away for a bit, and going through at least three 1/4" QD's. Sand blaster might be another common one people have but those are usually put pretty close to compressor or have a dedicated large feed.
The other fun part I often hear about in these threads is "rusty" lines - Small commercial shops, large home shops, large industrial facilities I have been involved in all have run plain ol' black iron everywhere and had no problems with rust or corrosion. Most had no air dryers. I have disassembled stuff that was 40yrs old and insides of pipes are is good shape with maybe the bit of flash rust. The only place we had anything different was in the robotic paint shop. Great care was taken for compressed air quality (dryers, filters, you name it), to an extent for the paint atomization air but as much so for the tiny pneumatic valves that ran so much of the system.
The other sneaky bit you can do to offset line losses is to bump up your pressure in the system a bit and regulate at point of use. Most of your tools are intended to run at ~90psi if you feed them the needed CFM. I know some things are just more fun if you are running them at 140psi but you are well past the design parameters.
The only tool I own that I can tell I am starving for air is the 3/4" impact when at the end of two 50' 1/4" hoses, hammering away for a bit, and going through at least three 1/4" QD's. Sand blaster might be another common one people have but those are usually put pretty close to compressor or have a dedicated large feed.
The other fun part I often hear about in these threads is "rusty" lines - Small commercial shops, large home shops, large industrial facilities I have been involved in all have run plain ol' black iron everywhere and had no problems with rust or corrosion. Most had no air dryers. I have disassembled stuff that was 40yrs old and insides of pipes are is good shape with maybe the bit of flash rust. The only place we had anything different was in the robotic paint shop. Great care was taken for compressed air quality (dryers, filters, you name it), to an extent for the paint atomization air but as much so for the tiny pneumatic valves that ran so much of the system.
Metal-Marc
Well-known member
I scored a free and defective pancake compressor. I tossed the compressor in the garbage, but kept the tank. I connected the 5 gal tank at the end of the line right after the regulator, but before my air tool hose. This way it gives me an extra psi boost for my tools.
It works great. I can hear the air moving back into the extra tank from the main tank when I stop using my air tools.
It works great. I can hear the air moving back into the extra tank from the main tank when I stop using my air tools.
jrsavoie
Well-known member
JLGs, backhoe, lift and skid loaders too
Master of Noneya
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Great idea. Filing this away for future implementation.I scored a free and defective pancake compressor. I tossed the compressor in the garbage, but kept the tank. I connected the 5 gal tank at the end of the line right after the regulator, but before my air tool hose. This way it gives me an extra psi boost for my tools.
It works great. I can hear the air moving back into the extra tank from the main tank when I stop using my air tools.
Master of Noneya
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Question that I haven't seen discussed here: is there any reason not to just use air hose, placed along or behind the walls/ceilings, instead of the plastic/metal lines mentioned?
racecougar
Well-known member
Longevity and size/restriction are two reasons.
nadogail
Well-known member
I have been getting by with an air hose threaded though the trusses of my workshop for about 30 years.
For my purposes it’s been fine.
For my purposes it’s been fine.
If you run metal pipe graded back toward a drain, it helps control moisture in the air line
Tanks typically have drains. If you grade your pipes such that drain to the tank, you do not need additional drains.
whateg01
Well-known member
Depending on how much airflow and size of pipe, the air can push that moisture right up the pipe and out the tool, or worse, into the paint.
Indeed, but having additional drains will not change that.
whateg01
Well-known member
Additional drains give that moisture that's pushed along the pipe another place to accumulate when it gets to that end or drop.
Why do you want moisture accumulating?
whateg01
Well-known member
You want it to accumulate at the lowest point so it can drained.
Exactly. That's why it makes sense to make the tank the lowest point.
whateg01
Well-known member
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Making the tank the lowest point doesn't mean that all the moisture will drain back there
Correct, it absolutely does not. Does having multiple drains mean all the moisture will drain to them?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
If you have drains below your outlets, yes, more of the moisture will go there.
I'm lost as to what you are arguing. Do you think it isn't worth having multiple drains?
But that was not the question, was it?
I thought it was a discussion. Having been through a number of installations I find interesting.
Assuming a system is piped correctly, I would say no, I (generally) do not see any value in having multiple drains.