AC Evaporator Air Leak

[Platonic Solid]

I have a significant air leak between the exterior evaporator enclosure and the coil drain outlet. I’ve confirmed that it’s not the drain pipe connection or the red hole plug next to it. Is this normal or acceptable? The whole system is 3 years old and still under warranty.

Thank you.

 

[shanker]

Mine has an air leak in that exact same spot as yours and is a very similar unit...

I was "told" that it's normal....not sure if the HVAC guy that "told" me that knew what he was talking about or not though.

 

[Mike007]

Yes it's "normal". If the coil is located within the conditioned space, I leave it. If it's not, I fill it with putty.

 

[Rookie2]

Add silicone or metal duct tape.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Excellent! Thank you.

 

[rkevins]

if there is a HVAC supply house in your area there is a tape that is aluminum backed with mastic putty on the back that is for this purpose any air not going into your duct work is loss of efficiency

 

[brewchief]

Some thumb gum or ductseal putty will fix that in as few minutes, not really a big deal if it's leaking into the conditioned space.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[arsco]

that is a secondary drain port a pvc pipe plug should fit fine.



* should have red what you we're asking instead of smashing my own answer where it didn't belong. some silicon or duck seal would work fine

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Why did those clowns use purple primer on your flue pipe and condensate drains?
Oh yeahpak a little thum gum around the drain coming out of the front of coil.

 

[Mike007]

Why did those clowns use purple primer on your flue pipe and condensate drains?:wtf

In Nazi Jersey it's code. No colored primer, no "Inspection Passed" sticker.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Why did those clowns use purple primer on your flue pipe and condensate drains?
Oh yeahpak a little thum gum around the drain coming out of the front of coil.

This old clown uses it because he forgets what he just put on the pipe! Is that glue or clear primer that I just put on that joint ? Purple primer solves my old timers moments !

 

[Platonic Solid]

Uhm...well...I'm the clown using the purple primer when I moved the drains, but then again, so did they.
It looked like this before:

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Why did those clowns use purple primer on your flue pipe and condensate drains?

Because it's CODE... What those "clowns" did do is sell him a fancy schmancy trap When he doesn't need one and they didn't give him any way to replace the neutralizer on the furnace drain line without having to redo the PVC. I'm actually surprised they even installed one...

Tommy

 

[Rockhead261]

Because it's CODE...[emoji106] What those "clowns" did do is sell him a fancy schmancy trap When he doesn't need one and they didn't give him any way to replace the neutralizer on the furnace drain line without having to redo the PVC. I'm actually surprised they even installed one...

Tommy

Haha, I thought the same thing about the trap but there are ******* inspectors out there who'll fail any system without one. Even if it's on the positive side of the blower.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Because it's CODE... What those "clowns" did do is sell him a fancy schmancy trap When he doesn't need one and they didn't give him any way to replace the neutralizer on the furnace drain line without having to redo the PVC. I'm actually surprised they even installed one...

Tommy

Yeah, I kept the trap cause I figure it's more efficient than having air blowing through the drain. The micro-switch float thingy was never wired to anything anyway. It was a fixed price quote, so I think they just put in whatever they had in the truck at the time.

My new homemade neutralizer looks like this:

 

[Mike007]

Because it's CODE... What those "clowns" did do is sell him a fancy schmancy trap When he doesn't need one and they didn't give him any way to replace the neutralizer on the furnace drain line without having to redo the PVC. I'm actually surprised they even installed one...

Tommy

Hey, you are in Nazi Jersey, you must have a trap here, it's in the plumbing code.

 

[bonneyman]

I'm a little concerned at the color of the condensate visible in the clear portion of the trap. Looks like chocolate - is that rust?
If it is, after only 3 years, it's shedding that much? Yikes!

Seal the air leak with metal tape or non-drying putty. Resist the urge to use silicone. It's a bear to get off if you need to remove the panel to clean the coil down the road. Perma-gum is not bad.

https://scottysinc.ca/content/msds-sheets/permagum-cords-and-slugs-msds.pdf

 

[Platonic Solid]

The Furnace/AC is in the garage (typical raised ranch with garage under bedrooms). The garage is not heated/cooled yet (installed new R19 garage doors, but still working on improving overall garage insulation), thus part of the discoloration you're seeing is sweat on the clear trap. I'll wipe it off and take a closer look at it when I get home since the picture does look rather brown.

I was going to use silicone as I thought it would be easier to remove than putty - meaning it would all come off mostly in one piece unlike putty. I'll yield to the experienced and use putty.

 

[bonneyman]

That's one really nice thing about the clear PVC traps is you can see when they're getting clogged. Makes preventing back-ups and overflows easier.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Hey, you are in Nazi Jersey, you must have a trap here, it's in the plumbing code.

No, it isn't. You only "have" to have a trap if the condensate pan is on the negative side of the blower, that's it. The only good reason for a trap on a positively pressurized condensate pan is to reduce air leakage. An untrapped condensate drain can drain indirectly into any approved "place of disposal" like out into your roof gutter or into a trapped drain or plumbing fixture, like a sink. You can't directly drain into any drainage/waste/vent line, period.

Tommy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Hey, you are in Nazi Jersey, you must have a trap here, it's in the plumbing code.

No, it isn't. You only "have" to have a trap if the condensate pan is on the negative side of the blower, that's it. The only good reason for a trap on a positively pressurized condensate pan is to reduce air leakage. A condensate drain can drain indirectly (there has to be an air gap) into any approved "place of disposal" like out into your roof gutter or into a trapped plumbing fixture, like a sink. You can't directly drain, trapped or untrapped, into any drainage/waste/vent line.

Tommy

 

[Mike007]

No, it isn't. You only "have" to have a trap if the condensate pan is on the negative side of the blower, that's it. The only good reason for a trap on a positively pressurized condensate pan is to reduce air leakage. A condensate drain can drain indirectly (there has to be an air gap) into any approved "place of disposal" like out into your roof gutter or into a plumbing fixture, like a sink. You can't directly drain, trapped or untrapped, into any drainage/waste line.

Tommy

I didn't say it made sense, but it is absolutely in the code. I know this because I failed a job and asked the inspector for the code citation. He gave it to me and I ran it by DCA. They confirmed it. I believe it's in the National Plumbing Code under condensate drains. Something else I learned the same way, a 4 ton A/C system requires a 1" condensate drain.

 

[Mike007]

I didn't say it made sense, but it is absolutely in the code. I know this because I failed a job and asked the inspector for the code citation. He gave it to me and I ran it by DCA. They confirmed it. I believe it's in the National Plumbing Code under condensate drains. Something else I learned the same way, a 4 ton A/C system requires a 1" condensate drain.

I should also add, that was 15 years ago. The code could have possibly changed and my National Plumbing Code book is pretty old.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I put a white container lid behind the trap so the wood and walls wouldn't effect the picture color. The sediment there is from the last 6-8 weeks of AC usage. It doesn't look too bad in these pictures. Now I have to ask, what's in there that can rust? I thought everything in there was made of aluminum and plastic.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I didn't say it made sense, but it is absolutely in the code. I know this because I failed a job and asked the inspector for the code citation. He gave it to me and I ran it by DCA. They confirmed it. I believe it's in the National Plumbing Code under condensate drains. Something else I learned the same way, a 4 ton A/C system requires a 1" condensate drain.

Your inspector is, umm, not too good. It may be a local code? LAst time I checked, trapping is dictated by the manufacturer, not code. Size is 3/4" minimum, after that it's no smaller than the outlet of the machine. I used to have a chart for drain line sizes per ton, but I honestly don't remember what the specs were. I do remember 3/4" went WAY above 4T.


The code may have changed, too...



Tommy

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Dang, you guys have some good inspectors. The building I maintained had a renovation done with 55 new water source heat pump units put in it that were located throughout the building providing zoned heating and cooling....

I spent a lot of my time re-doing the HP's condensate drains...that were piped in to sanitary sewer pipes by the mechanical contractor and the inspector either did not know any better, or did not care. The HP's sure did stink up the place when the unit's traps dried up in the heating season.

What a engineering/installation snafu this condensate drain issue was, especially with the owners having to pay twice for a job not done right.

 

[Mike007]

Your inspector is, umm, not too good. It may be a local code? LAst time I checked, trapping is dictated by the manufacturer, not code. Size is 3/4" minimum, after that it's no smaller than the outlet of the machine. I used to have a chart for drain line sizes per ton, but I honestly don't remember what the specs were. I do remember 3/4" went WAY above 4T. The code may have changed, too...

Ok. You made me check. This is right out of the National Plumbing Code. I called Tom Picherello over at DCA Code Assistance to make sure I am not spreading misinformation. According to Tom, a trap is required on an A/C drain and this is the applicable code:


9.4.3 Air Conditioning Condensate

a. Indirect waste piping from air conditioning units shall be sized according to the condensate-generating
capacity of the units served. Branches from individual units shall be no smaller than the drain opening or
drain connection on the unit. Traps shall be provided at each air conditioning unit or cooling coil to main-
tain atmospheric pressure in the waste piping.

b. Condensate waste piping shall be sloped not less than 1/8" per foot. Drainage fittings shall be used in
sizes 1-1/4" and larger. Minimum pipe sizing shall be as follows:

3/4" pipe size through 3-ton cooling capacity
1" pipe size through 20-ton cooling capacity
1-1/4" pipe size through 100-ton cooling capacity
1-1/2" pipe size through 300-ton cooling capacity
2" size pipe through 600-ton cooling capacity

c. Discharge of air conditioning condensate shall not be permitted to create a nuisance such as by flowing across the ground or paved surfaces. Unless expressly prohibited by the Authority Having Jurisdiction, the point of indirect discharge for air conditioning condensate shall be one of the following:

1 . The building sanitary drainage system.

2. The building storm drainage system.

3. A sump pump.

4. A subsurface absorption pit or trench.

5. Within dwellings, a tub waste and overflow or lavatory tailpiece within the same dwelling.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Ok. You made me check. This is right out of the Nation Plumbing Code. I called Tom Picherello over at DCA Code Assistance to make sure I am not spreading misinformation. According to Tom, a trap is required on an A/C drain and this is the applicable code:


9.4.3 Air Conditioning Condensate

a. Indirect waste piping from air conditioning units shall be sized according to the condensate-generating
capacity of the units served. Branches from individual units shall be no smaller than the drain opening or
drain connection on the unit. Traps shall be provided at each air conditioning unit or cooling coil to main-
tain atmospheric pressure in the waste piping.

b. Condensate waste piping shall be sloped not less than 1/8" per foot. Drainage fittings shall be used in
sizes 1-1/4" and larger. Minimum pipe sizing shall be as follows:

3/4" pipe size through 3-ton cooling capacity
1" pipe size through 20-ton cooling capacity
1-1/4" pipe size through 100-ton cooling capacity
1-1/2" pipe size through 300-ton cooling capacity
2" size pipe through 600-ton cooling capacity

c. Discharge of air conditioning condensate shall not be permitted to create a nuisance such as by flowing
across the ground or paved surfaces. Unless expressly prohibited by the Authority Having Jurisdiction, the
point of indirect discharge for air conditioning condensate shall be one of the following:

1 . The building sanitary drainage system.

2. The building storm drainage system.

3. A sump pump.

4. A subsurface absorption pit or trench.

5. Within dwellings, a tub waste and overflow or lavatory tailpiece within the same dwelling.

In blue.... You have got to be kidding me right ?????

 

[Mike007]

You have got to be kidding me ?????

Are you reading that correctly? It says "Shall be" meaning it is ok for termination. Could be a trapped stand pipe, slop sink, etc. An air gap is required.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

.....

Read my post #26 to see why I am questioning the "authority" that wrote the code you printed out. Not questioning your posts, just the code you have printed. thanks, Greg

 

[Mike007]

Read my post #26 to see why I am questioning the "authority" that wrote the code you printed out. Not questioning your posts, just the code you have printed. thanks, Greg

That code is not written by an authority. It's written by a company that writes codes, in this case it's National, and it's adopted by a jurisdiction. In this case, the state of NJ.

I see your issue. The code is however titled "Air Conditioning Condensate". I can see it would be an issue with a heat pump with the coil under a negative pressure. I'd say, the contractor should have known better and the issue might have been addressed in the installation manual.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

That code is not written by an authority. It's written by a company that writes codes, in this case it's National, and it's adopted by a jurisdiction. In this case, the state of NJ.

I see your issue. The code is however titled "Air Conditioning Condensate". I can see it would be an issue with a heat pump with the coil under a negative pressure. I'd say, the contractor should have known better and the issue might have been addressed in the installation manual.

O.K. I see. I have read the installation manual on the Climate Master HP's in my building that I maintained and mentioned above. They did not specify as to the receptacle of the HP condensate drain, only the pipe size. I feel equipment manufacturer's want to stay out of the buildings piping design wars.

It is a engineering shortcoming in my opinion, for a large commercial building that has MANY condensating units, for the mechanical engineer to not specify a separate condensate drain piping system that dumps in to the facility's storm drains. Hell, if one is a greenie, just put a holding tank in the facility and use the water for watering the facility plants and such. jmo

 

[Mike007]

O.K. I see. I have read the installation manual on the Climate Master HP's in my building that I maintained and mentioned above. They did not specify as to the receptacle of the HP condensate drain, only the pipe size. I feel equipment manufacturer's want to stay out of the buildings piping design wars.

It is a engineering shortcoming in my opinion, for a large commercial building that has MANY condensating units, for the mechanical engineer to not specify a separate condensate drain piping system that dumps in to the facility's storm drains. Hell, if one is a greenie, just put a holding tank in the facility and use the water for watering the facility plants and such. jmo

I like to pump condensate to a washing machine stand pipe whenever possible. That trap is primed whenever the machine is run. Obviously that's not always possible.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Ok. You made me check. This is right out of the National Plumbing Code. I called Tom Picherello over at DCA Code Assistance to make sure I am not spreading misinformation. According to Tom, a trap is required on an A/C drain and this is the applicable code:


9.4.3 Air Conditioning Condensate

a. Indirect waste piping from air conditioning units shall be sized according to the condensate-generating
capacity of the units served. Branches from individual units shall be no smaller than the drain opening or
drain connection on the unit. Traps shall be provided at each air conditioning unit or cooling coil to main-
tain atmospheric pressure in the waste piping.

b. Condensate waste piping shall be sloped not less than 1/8" per foot. Drainage fittings shall be used in
sizes 1-1/4" and larger. Minimum pipe sizing shall be as follows:

3/4" pipe size through 3-ton cooling capacity
1" pipe size through 20-ton cooling capacity
1-1/4" pipe size through 100-ton cooling capacity
1-1/2" pipe size through 300-ton cooling capacity
2" size pipe through 600-ton cooling capacity

c. Discharge of air conditioning condensate shall not be permitted to create a nuisance such as by flowing across the ground or paved surfaces. Unless expressly prohibited by the Authority Having Jurisdiction, the point of indirect discharge for air conditioning condensate shall be one of the following:

1 . The building sanitary drainage system.

2. The building storm drainage system.

3. A sump pump.

4. A subsurface absorption pit or trench.

5. Within dwellings, a tub waste and overflow or lavatory tailpiece within the same dwelling.

OK, I'm beat. It HAS changed.

"9.4.3 Air Conditioning Condensate

a. Indirect waste piping from air conditioning units shall be sized according to the condensate-generating
capacity of the units served. Branches from individual units shall be no smaller than the drain opening or
drain connection on the unit. Traps shall be provided at each air conditioning unit or cooling coil to main-
tain atmospheric pressure in the waste piping"

Not arguing, just commenting- You cannot directly discharge into a waste line, period. So if that part of the code is followed, a trap is not needed to maintain the waste line at atmospheric pressure on a blow through unit.

Tommy

 

[Mike007]

Not arguing, just commenting- You cannot directly discharge into a waste line, period. So if that part of the code is followed, a trap is not needed to maintain the waste line at atmospheric pressure on a blow through unit.

Tommy

Tommy

Not arguing either. Just passing along what I was told by Tom Picherello the guy who oversees all the plumbing and mechanical codes for the state of NJ.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Mike007-

I forgot to say "Thanks for bringing me up to date!"

Tommy

 

[bonneyman]

I put a white container lid behind the trap so the wood and walls wouldn't effect the picture color. The sediment there is from the last 6-8 weeks of AC usage. It doesn't look too bad in these pictures. Now I have to ask, what's in there that can rust? I thought everything in there was made of aluminum and plastic.

The newer microchannel coils are 100% aluminum. But aluminum fin/copper tube coils have steel end plates. They are galvanized, but I've noticed the zinc coating on recent items is cheaper and much thinner. My 4 year old evap coil is starting to show rust!

And I check/flush my EZ Trap once a month when I change the filter. Even with 2 inch pleats, sprayed with Endust, and foam tape sealed in, I get sediment collecting in the P trap.