AC Leaking Water Everywhere!

[Platonic Solid]

AC is leaking water everywhere!
1. Evaporator leaking out of a screw at left rear corner.
2. Evaporator leaking out on top of furnace.
3. Water leaking through furnace into blower box.

Not sure if it's poor install, poor design, or both. Unit is only 3 yrs. old.

I have called for service, but am interested in other similar experiences.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Condensation drain clogged?

 

[BillK]

The purple line is the drain. It is clogged up somewhere along the line.

 

[rlitman]

Condensation drain clogged?

Gotta be. Blow the line out until it drains, and toss a couple of pan "mints" in to kill algae in the pan so it doesn't clog again.

 

[jhelrey]

Your valve looks off for the condensate drain line.

 

[Platonic Solid]

The purple line is the drain. It is clogged up somewhere along the line.

I thought the same thing so I took the drain completely OFF this weekend. The PVC pipe is clear. What I didn't do is stuff anything through the drain hole into the furnace. (I think I've earned a dope slap for that one).

 

[Platonic Solid]

Gotta be. Blow the line out until it drains, and toss a couple of pan "mints" in to kill algae in the pan so it doesn't clog again.

Pan mints? I get the concept, but that doesn't Google real well.
I've never had the evaporator cover OFF, since it's half covered with insulation. At this point I guess I should probably wait for the service guy.
I think I deserve a second dope slap for making it impossible to remove the drain line without replacing half the piping and the threaded ******.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Your valve looks off for the condensate drain line.

Valve is not OFF. It's also not electrically attached to anything, so it serves no purpose other than permitting trap clean-out.

 

[LB-1911]

Pan mints? I get the concept, but that doesn't Google real well.
I've never had the evaporator cover OFF, since it's half covered with insulation. At this point I guess I should probably wait for the service guy.
I think I deserve a second dope slap for making it impossible to remove the drain line without replacing half the piping and the threaded ******.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-Safe-Air-Conditioner-Pan-Tablets-6-Pack-AC-912/100665383

 

[Jagmandave]

Why would you put a trap in a drain line like that, you want it to flow as freely as possible....I just used a hose on mine, seems to work just fine. Is it code in your area to use PVC like that? And to use a shut off valve?

 

[rlitman]

The trap is code. Prevents pressure differentials from blowing causing a draft through there.

HD sells 6-packs of pan tablets. I use them in my window ACs too.

You can blow IN the drain to get it flowing too. However you get to the coils to clean them should give you access to drop a tablet in.

 

[KiltLifter]

+1 on above, it's a curious setup that will stay wet inside and might grow nasties.

Also, what's the tube full of rocks? Softening the drain water?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Why would you put a trap in a drain line like that, you want it to flow as freely as possible....I just used a hose on mine, seems to work just fine. Is it code in your area to use PVC like that? And to use a shut off valve?

I'm no code expert, but I think a trap is required in CT, however I believe the microswitch float AC shutoff (which isn't connected) is only required if the furnace is installed inside the living space where water would cause more serious damage than the garage.

 

[Rock knocker]

Why would you put a trap in a drain line like that, you want it to flow as freely as possible....I just used a hose on mine, seems to work just fine. Is it code in your area to use PVC like that? And to use a shut off valve?

You'll see more leaks with no trap than with a trap. With no trap, a venturi effect can take place and **** air up the condensate drain and spill it into the duct work.

 

[Platonic Solid]

+1 on above, it's a curious setup that will stay wet inside and might grow nasties.

Good point! I'll talk to the service guy about that when he gets here some time this afternoon.

Also, what's the tube full of rocks? Softening the drain water?

Yes, my home made marble chip contraption is to soften the furnace condensate. We'll see how that works this winter.

I'm responsible for the rerouted drain line. They had it like this:

 

[Rock knocker]

Note sure if it's poor install, poor design, or both. Unit is only 3 yrs. old.

The piping looks a little busy, but it is correctly done. In fact it may be text book correct. If it has worked for three years, that means the problem is new and likely one of maintenance.

Check the entire drain pan for an algae clog, most likely upstream of the trap and into the pan. That is almost certainly your problem

 

[Rock knocker]

Yes, my home made marble chip contraption is to soften the furnace condensate. We'll see how that works this winter

Why in the world would condensate water need to be softened? Hard water results from ground water picking up minerals. Condensate water is almost perfectly soft.

 

[Rock knocker]

What are those black levers in the top of the trap tees?

 

[Platonic Solid]

The trap is code. Prevents pressure differentials from blowing causing a draft through there.

HD sells 6-packs of pan tablets. I use them in my window ACs too.

You can blow IN the drain to get it flowing too. However you get to the coils to clean them should give you access to drop a tablet in.

Umm... Clean the coils? Oh ****! If the coils are supposed to be cleaned why would they wrap the access door with insulation? Is there proper coil cleaning procedure? (I'm feeling dumber by the minute).

Would it make sense to install a PVC clean-out "T" at that first 90° bend so I have straight access to the pan? (since it must be clogged inside the evaporator) Or is the cover/door meant to be removed regularly thus making a clean-out "T" pointless.

 

[KiltLifter]

I misused the word soft. I think it's more Acidic and Basic with the heat side condenser isn't it?
Boy, if that thing ast just a hair higher, it could self drain instead of having to pump it.
Where'd you get the clear? did it glue up the same as the PVC?

 

[Platonic Solid]

Why in the world would condensate water need to be softened? Hard water results from ground water picking up minerals. Condensate water is almost perfectly soft.

Propane condensate is highly acidic and will eat through the septic system.

 

[KiltLifter]

What are those black levers in the top of the trap tees?

Yeah, the second one looks closed compared to the first.

 

[Rock knocker]

Propane condensate is highly acidic and will eat through the septic system.

I've never heard that. Most modern septic systems are plastic, so that is unlikely. Further information on the ph of furnace condensate.

https://yorkcentraltechtalk.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/furnace-condensate-new-d-o-e-rules/

 

[Platonic Solid]

I misused the word soft. I think it's more Acidic and Basic with the heat side condenser isn't it?
Boy, if that thing ast just a hair higher, it could self drain instead of having to pump it.
Where'd you get the clear? did it glue up the same as the PVC?

The initial idea was to drain the furnace condensate directly, but learned the hard way that the slow drip-drip-drip caused the water to freeze in the drain line since it runs exposed through an uninsulated shed before it goes underground into a drywell. putting the pump back in solved this problem.

Clear 4" diameter acrylic tube bonded to PVC really good with regular PVC primer/cement. I got it from our plastics supplier at work.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I've never heard that. Most modern septic systems are plastic, so that is unlikely. Further information on the ph of furnace condensate.

https://yorkcentraltechtalk.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/furnace-condensate-new-d-o-e-rules/

My house was built in 1963 (main interior septic lines are all copper). I tested the ph with a pool test kit which only goes down to 6.2 (light orange color code). The strip came out bright yellow, thus off the scale - which agrees with the 3.5 - 5.0 range in the article you linked to. Maybe it's isn't necessary, but I'd rather be proactive than find a collapsed drywell in my future.

 

[Rock knocker]

What are those levers on the top of the tees?

 

[Platonic Solid]

What are those levers on the top of the tees?

http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/smart-trap/

 

[Rock knocker]

What I didn't do is stuff anything through the drain hole into the furnace

Do that and report back

 

[Platonic Solid]

Do that and report back

Unfortunately that would require me to cut and replace the PVC (again). I'm reading the manual now ... I think it's time to cut the insulation they put over the door and open her up. It's got to be easier than replacing that dang threaded PVC ****** again (I cross-threaded 2 of them this weekend trying to get it in).

 

[Rock knocker]

It's very very very common for the pan outlet to plug where it goes into the drain. So if you have to cut the pipe and re-do it, that's what you need to do. Dollars to doughnuts that is exactly where the problem is.

You should exit the drain with a union, capped tee or capped cross so you can swab out the pipe.

 

[rlitman]

Propane condensate is highly acidic

Any flame exhaust condensate is acidic. Propane, NG too. It causes corrosion in iron drain pipes if you have them. Not sure about the effects in a plastic system, but the marble chips can't hurt.

The AC condensate is fine to drain anywhere. It's going to be pH neutral and soft. Basically close to distilled water, though dirtier.

 

[CNGsaves]

Learned something new today on GJ with the "water softener" for the furnace condensate, and the reason for need to have trap. Mine is old school dump it all into floor drain which is steel sewer pipe.

Think I am evidencing "venturi effect" of the A-coil AC condensate as I've got mystery stain on carpet about 15 feet downstream in the main duct. Prior owner must have cleaned carpet in that area as it drips down on door frame, then brown drip onto carpet.

I'll be adding similar setup to OP (ie the trap and softener). WHERE did you buy the marble chips ?? More SPECIFICS of those and really necessary for such large quantity of chips . . . is that a 4" pipe full of them ??

 

[Platonic Solid]

OK, I took the cover OFF. The good and bad news is that the coils look pretty clean and the drain is perfectly clear. (Not the easiest place to take pictures of)

I assume this means there's a hole somewhere in the pan. Like maybe where that crooked screw on the left rear exterior (pictured in first post) is leaking water.

 

[rlitman]

Umm... Clean the coils? Oh ****! If the coils are supposed to be cleaned why would they wrap the access door with insulation? Is there proper coil cleaning procedure? (I'm feeling dumber by the minute).

Would it make sense to install a PVC clean-out "T" at that first 90° bend so I have straight access to the pan? (since it must be clogged inside the evaporator) Or is the cover/door meant to be removed regularly thus making a clean-out "T" pointless.

A box cutter will get you into that access door in 2 seconds. You can always close it back up with foil tape.

If you keep your return filter clean, you may not have to clean the coil that often. Maybe as little as once every other year... Though since you are using the same ducts for heat, your hot air will go through the same coil in the winter, which effectively doubles the rate that dirt will accumulate.
I use an aerosol self rinsing foaming cleaner. You use it on a hot/humid day, and the condensate on the coil rinses it for you. Spray it into the intake side of the coil with the fan running, and the fan will pull it deeper into the fins.

If you put in tablets once or twice per cooling season (there's no condensate in that pan in the winter, so no algae buildup), you shouldn't get enough algae buildup to clog the drain. And if you put a tablet into an infected drain, the algae will breakdown and dissolve, though the tablet will not open up a clogged drain. A blast of air will do that trick nicely though.

In your picture, it appears that the AC condensate is draining into your house drain, and the heat condensate is pumped up barely a foot into the same drain. It looks to me (perhaps an error of perspective), that you could get rid of the pump entirely with a little adjustment.

 

[rlitman]

The good and bad news is that the coils look pretty clean and the drain is perfectly clear.

I assume this means there's a hole somewhere in the pan.

Pour a few quarts of water in the pan and see if it goes down the drain.

 

[JRC3]

I have an older furnace and coil and a few years ago mine was leaking. Pulled the sheet metal and found the plastic/resin A-coil pan had cracked. Luckily I was ably to slide it out, clean it up and epoxy the crack and I was good to go.

*edit*
How old is that unit? Warranty if the pan cracked???

 

[Platonic Solid]

Learned something new today on GJ with the "water softener" for the furnace condensate, and the reason for need to have trap. Mine is old school dump it all into floor drain which is steel sewer pipe.

Think I am evidencing "venturi effect" of the A-coil AC condensate as I've got mystery stain on carpet about 15 feet downstream in the main duct. Prior owner must have cleaned carpet in that area as it drips down on door frame, then brown drip onto carpet.

I'll be adding similar setup to OP (ie the trap and softener). WHERE did you buy the marble chips ?? More SPECIFICS of those and really necessary for such large quantity of chips . . . is that a 4" pipe full of them ??

Yes, it's full of chips except for the tube down the center to put the condensate at the bottom. I just used regular marble landscaping chips from HD. I might have gotten carried away with the quantity, but I wanted it to actually work. We'll see this winter when I do another acid test.

 

[Platonic Solid]

...
In your picture, it appears that the AC condensate is draining into your house drain, and the heat condensate is pumped up barely a foot into the same drain. It looks to me (perhaps an error of perspective), that you could get rid of the pump entirely with a little adjustment.

See my post #24

 

[Rock knocker]

....... and the drain is perfectly clear.

Looking at your pan, it's almost impossible to believe that the drain is perfectly clear

 

[dreasoner]

Have you checked your air filter? A plugged filter could cause lack of airflow resulting in the evaporator coil freezing up. This further reduces airflow. The coil will thaw in the off cycle and could allow water to run elsewhere besides the drainpan. This could be the source of the water leaks from the cabinet. The condensate from a condensing furnace is indeed acidic. That is why the flue system must be PVC. Metal pipe will degrade with corrosion from the flue gas.