Anyone using one of these?
Do you have information from the bluetooth that graphs or explains the overall reduction in power usage? I get that it can soft start by ramping up the inrush and that the compressor operates on a lower amperage than the starting amperage. Just wondering how it could affect the running amps after it starts?I installed one a couple months ago. Dropped the starting amperage of my 20 year old Carrier 3.5 ton house A/C from 78 amps to 23, and the running amps from 20ish to 13. For June my electric power usage was around 35% less than last June, and our average temp was higher this year. It also very noticeably quieted down the outside compressor unit and my lights no longer flicker when the A/C kicks on. Everything major in my house is gas except the A/C, and my thermostat has been set the same for many years, so I feel pretty confident it made a big difference in power usage. I was worried about the cost so I bought it on Amazon in case it didn't work as good as they say, but I am very happy with it. It is cheaper on eBay if your not as worried about the purchase as I was. And I can also now start my A/C with my backup generator if wanted. I got the ASY-368-X48-BLUE, it has Bluetooth and you can see current draw info as well as program some starting features like delays using your phone.
I'm very confused on how this could reduce running amps. Smells like shenanigansI installed one a couple months ago. Dropped the starting amperage of my 20 year old Carrier 3.5 ton house A/C from 78 amps to 23, and the running amps from 20ish to 13. For June my electric power usage was around 35% less than last June, and our average temp was higher this year. It also very noticeably quieted down the outside compressor unit and my lights no longer flicker when the A/C kicks on. Everything major in my house is gas except the A/C, and my thermostat has been set the same for many years, so I feel pretty confident it made a big difference in power usage. I was worried about the cost so I bought it on Amazon in case it didn't work as good as they say, but I am very happy with it. It is cheaper on eBay if your not as worried about the purchase as I was. And I can also now start my A/C with my backup generator if wanted. I got the ASY-368-X48-BLUE, it has Bluetooth and you can see current draw info as well as program some starting features like delays using your phone.
I know you can use a VFD to operate a 3 phase motor on single phase and vary its rpm. But I wonder how it can cause the compressor to use less power?
lowering the speed of a compressor (relatively) linearly lowers the power, and thus the amperage.Do you have information from the bluetooth that graphs or explains the overall reduction in power usage? I get that it can soft start by ramping up the inrush and that the compressor operates on a lower amperage than the starting amperage. Just wondering how it could affect the running amps after it starts?
I know you can use a VFD to operate a 3 phase motor on single phase and vary its rpm. But I wonder how it can cause the compressor to use less power?
Get a bigger generator.I had a generator installed to run part of my home. The Carrier 3 Ton AC would not start so the generator company put in a Hard start unit (Rectorseal 96503 Kickstart T05). After reading about these, it appears they are hard on compressors, etc. because they just dump extra amperage into the system from its charged capacitor. I know it was cheap because they did not charge for it and just included it into the installation. Now I'm thinking that I'd be better served by swapping it out for a MicroAir Easy Start (ASY-368-X48-BLUE). However, from what I've been reading, it seems that decreasing starting amperage may be bad also.
Which would you recommend - changing to the EasyStart or keeping the Kickstart? And why?
please quote the minuses of the soft start unitsI had a generator installed to run part of my home. The Carrier 3 Ton AC would not start so the generator company put in a Hard start unit (Rectorseal 96503 Kickstart T05). After reading about these, it appears they are hard on compressors, etc. because they just dump extra amperage into the system from its charged capacitor. I know it was cheap because they did not charge for it and just included it into the installation. Now I'm thinking that I'd be better served by swapping it out for a MicroAir Easy Start (ASY-368-X48-BLUE). However, from what I've been reading, it seems that decreasing starting amperage may be bad also.
Which would you recommend - changing to the EasyStart or keeping the Kickstart? And why?
My understanding is that a hard start can help an aging compressor get started faster and a soft start makes it easier on the electrical system when the compressor is starting.I had a generator installed to run part of my home. The Carrier 3 Ton AC would not start so the generator company put in a Hard start unit (Rectorseal 96503 Kickstart T05). After reading about these, it appears they are hard on compressors, etc. because they just dump extra amperage into the system from its charged capacitor. I know it was cheap because they did not charge for it and just included it into the installation. Now I'm thinking that I'd be better served by swapping it out for a MicroAir Easy Start (ASY-368-X48-BLUE). However, from what I've been reading, it seems that decreasing starting amperage may be bad also.
Which would you recommend - changing to the EasyStart or keeping the Kickstart? And why?
Sounds like the generator is too smallMy AC was 4 months old when the generator was installed.
Where on the Microair website did you find these quotes? I didnt see anything referencing mini-splits. Everything seems to reference non inverter ac units. The only "inverter" I see them referencing is regarding using a solar inverter to operate an ac unit."EasyStart™ - The most advanced & effective soft starter for all A/C applications
EasyStart™ is a one-of-a-kind, custom developed soft starter for single-phase motors like those used in the home and commercial contexts. It employs a 4-part start ramp sequence that is self-optimizing, resulting in the lowest possible start-up current. EasyStart can deliver a start current reduction of up to 75% of a compressor's LRA (locked-rotor amperage). EasyStart is the perfect solution that allows an air conditioner or refrigeration compressor to operate on a generator, inverter, or limited utility power when it would otherwise not have functioned. It can also be applied to air compressors and fluid pump motors."
These were not design to be used on inverter based minisplits for power saving or softstart, they were designed primarily for use on single phase compressors, motors, they ramp up the ac input voltage via a thyristor circuit. Minisplit Inverters already use soft start circuitry.
Inverter minisplits have multiple sensors and programmed variables to use the most efficient inverter setting (power savings), if you have a device which lowers the input voltage to an inverter minisplit your working against the minisplit programming. As to power saving, there is no free lunch in the world (except for headstart kids), if you cut back the power to compressor it slows down, outputs less. Yes it will save money if you do not need the full output of a compressor, be it an air compressor, older minisplit (non inverter) or AC units , and it will provide soft start to non inverter equipment.
"Inverter Mini-split Benefits
Compared to the common on/off controlled compressor, the inverter controlled compressor runs at the proper revolution to provide the best efficiency and reduce losses. When the maximum capacity is not required, the compressor revolution is decreased. This means the input power decreases too, which results in increased system efficiency. Another advantage of the inverter is the ‘soft start’. The compressor starts at minimum speed, avoiding high inrush current [4 to 6 times compressor full load amps] associated with conventional on-off type compressors. ‘Soft start’ reduces the instantaneous peak demand associated with AC equipment starts. "
Conclusion....
Microaire is hoping you do not understand minisplit inverter technology so you buy this unneeded product for your inverter based minisplits.
Get a bigger generator.
Sounds like the generator is too small
Soft starts are what I have heard of people installing to run a/c when the generator is too small
Your electricity bill at home usually doesn't have a demand component. They are just billing based on power used (KW). Reducing starting load won't help your bill as that power has to come from somewhere, it's just timing. The cap discharges then has to rechargeThat is what I'm hearing/reading too. But if the unit they installed (which worked when they were here) doesn't damage the AC unit I'm not sure I want to spend the money for a soft start. I did read that since a soft start reduces the energy used, that there could be a savings on one's electrical bill since AC/heat pumps can start roughly 10,000 times a year but it was just a statement and I don't know of any actual proof.
It had more to do with running a motor with low amps. Maybe my reading was about running with low voltage which would cause higher amps. Gets confusing.please quote the minuses of the soft start units
so far I havent found any other than price
Also there are multiple manufactures of soft start kits as well. I havent researched them all yet, but Soft Start Home is another. If you look on there site there is some additional information regarding energy savings attributed to the inrush/starting cycle. I have a hard time believing that it would amount to a significant amount, but who knows?
If you read there Blog Part 1, it specifically says that it does not reduce running current, only starting cycle current. It "may reduce monthly power costs in states that have peak demand limits which increase the cost of all average electrical rates". So they are clearer in what they promise it can do.
That's a rather aggressive conclusion. from what I see in the video it replaces the start/run caps with 3rd party electronics, which are fundamentally incompatible with an inverter driven (3ø/BLDC) compressor."Inverter Mini-split Benefits
Compared to the common on/off controlled compressor, the inverter controlled compressor runs at the proper revolution to provide the best efficiency and reduce losses. When the maximum capacity is not required, the compressor revolution is decreased. This means the input power decreases too, which results in increased system efficiency. Another advantage of the inverter is the ‘soft start’. The compressor starts at minimum speed, avoiding high inrush current [4 to 6 times compressor full load amps] associated with conventional on-off type compressors. ‘Soft start’ reduces the instantaneous peak demand associated with AC equipment starts. "
Conclusion....
Microaire is hoping you do not understand minisplit inverter technology so you buy this unneeded product for your inverter based minisplits.
It's basically a variable frequency drive. I own and use one. It works as advertised.I'm very confused on how this could reduce running amps. Smells like shenanigans
How are you measuring inrush? I'd be surprised if it had the built in metering to do it accurately
that's not how things work. a capacitor stores energy. it doesn't "push" it anywhere.I had a generator installed to run part of my home. The Carrier 3 Ton AC would not start so the generator company put in a Hard start unit (Rectorseal 96503 Kickstart T05). After reading about these, it appears they are hard on compressors, etc. because they just dump extra amperage into the system from its charged capacitor. I know it was cheap because they did not charge for it and just included it into the installation. Now I'm thinking that I'd be better served by swapping it out for a MicroAir Easy Start (ASY-368-X48-BLUE). However, from what I've been reading, it seems that decreasing starting amperage may be bad also.
Which would you recommend - changing to the EasyStart or keeping the Kickstart? And why?
that's nice, unless you're gonna slobber up your massively oversized generator because it's now sized for inrush, not actual loads.Get a bigger generator.
they ain't cheap. nope!please quote the minuses of the soft start units
so far I havent found any other than price
current required is based on the torque you're asking the motor to produce. by DOL'ing a motor, you're basically asking it to produce infinite torque. soft starters/inverters/Y-∆ allow you to NOT do that.It had more to do with running a motor with low amps. Maybe my reading was about running with low voltage which would cause higher amps. Gets confusing.
But if the soft start lowers the amps needed to start the compressor motor, how does that work? How would it provide enough torque to turn the motor over? It can't increase the voltage or can it to provide more wattage due t lower amps.
well, a "hard start" can't really "push" more power in, it can only allow the windings to draw what is available. and a soft starter isn't JUST a current limiter.Don't confuse a "hard Starter" with a "Soft Starter". They are two completely different things.
A hard starter is an extra start capacitor that will kick the compressor with extra current when starting.
A soft starter does exactly the opposite. It uses electronics to slowly ramp up the current required to start your compressor over time. I'm not an electronics genius but apparently it's very similar to how a variable frequency drive works.
The one thing i do know for sure. The Micro Air easy Start device does exactly what it claims to do. No snake oil here....
I never said a hard starter would "push" more current.... In fact, the word "push" never appears in my post anywhere. lololwell, a "hard start" can't really "push" more power in, it can only allow the windings to draw what is available. and a soft starter isn't JUST a current limiter.
Don't confuse a "hard Starter" with a "Soft Starter". They are two completely different things.
A hard starter is an extra start capacitor that will kick the compressor with extra current when starting.
A soft starter does exactly the opposite. It uses electronics to slowly ramp up the current required to start your compressor over time. I'm not an electronics genius but apparently it's very similar to how a variable frequency drive works.
The one thing i do know for sure. The Micro Air easy Start device does exactly what it claims to do. No snake oil here....
what is DOL'ing?current required is based on the torque you're asking the motor to produce. by DOL'ing a motor, you're basically asking it to produce infinite torque. soft starters/inverters/Y-∆ allow you to NOT do that.
start windings/capacitors are not meant for continuous use. assuming a hard start kit is on a motor with a start winding, then it was likely added because another configuration wasn't providing enough "kick" (torque) to get the motor and load spinning.So is the hard starter more damaging to the compressor over time than a soft starter?
I guess everyone is saying I should make the switch to a soft starter. Is that correct?
what is DOL'ing?
Ok, what does it depend on whether I should make the switch to a soft starter?the answer is "it depends".
Most (all?) electric motors that have high starting loads have a start capacitor. The cheap soft starters are usually just a very large capacitor which can make the starting current WORSE !I had a generator installed to run part of my home. The Carrier 3 Ton AC would not start so the generator company put in a Hard start unit (Rectorseal 96503 Kickstart T05). After reading about these, it appears they are hard on compressors, etc. because they just dump extra amperage into the system from its charged capacitor. I know it was cheap because they did not charge for it and just included it into the installation. Now I'm thinking that I'd be better served by swapping it out for a MicroAir Easy Start (ASY-368-X48-BLUE). However, from what I've been reading, it seems that decreasing starting amperage may be bad also.
The MicroAir (single phase) has those items "built in" (non-adjustable) to the design.inverter starting is the only one of the above that I'd call "controlled" starting, where you can specify exactly how fast/how much torque/how many amps are applied to the motor (and load).