Acetylene Gas Consumption

[Chaznsc]

Considering an acetylene torch in the distant future and wondered how long a setup like this would run before the tanks needed a fill. I know its subjective, merely researching at this point. Also, would I have trouble getting them filled locally considering their small size?

http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-torch-kit-with-oxygen-and-acetylene-tanks-65818.html

Thank you...

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[rustychev]

Not long at all go bigger way bigger

 

[HMCFab9]

Get a bigger one.
I was going to get one like that, but the guy at the welding store told me the fee to fill it costs more than the actual contents of the tanks.
Unless you only plan on using it maybe once a year.... go bigger.

 

[RECox286]

Don't fool around with toys. If you are serious, the smallest tank

to consider would be a 60 cu ft O2 and a B tank Acyetene, and even

then when you get into a fair size project, you'll be out of gas and

frustrated b/c it's Saturday pm, and the supplier won't be open until

Monday am. BTDT... Take my word for it. If you want the small set

for jewelry making, then get it.

Uncle Bob

 

[brownbagg]

also, they won't fill your tank, they will take them and replace with some ugly old tanks. but those tanks will last about ten days, all they good for is hvac work so they fit in a truck easier.

 

[zkling]

Depends what you want to do. Cutting? Those will go fast. Small brazing for HVAC and the like is more what that is suited for. Don't forget the 1/7th rule.

On a side note. I'm not sure how much I would trust equipment from HF to handle explosive gas. A real port a torch is not much more if you really want to go that route.

 

[ptschram]

Plasma FTW!

The torch has its place but since I got a plasma the torch doesn't get much use.

 

[Chaznsc]

GREAT responses,........part of my question is still unanswered. How long does a tank burn? For instance, if I had a larger tank and were cutting say 2" angle iron, would it make 10 cuts or a thousand? And I realize its dependent on how much you use it. I would just like to know how expensive they are to operate.

We used a plasma torch in my class as well, so I guess the same question applies.

 

[WWIIjeep]

Depends what you want to do. Cutting? Those will go fast. Small brazing for HVAC and the like is more what that is suited for.

This ^^^

And, for light welding with small tips, and for portable use, where you have to carry the equipment some distance, or in confined spaces where larger equipment won't fit. Cutting gets done with those MC/R cylinder setups, that's why they're nicknamed "safecrackers," but with the knowledge that when used for cutting, the cylinders will have to be replaced frequently.

GREAT responses,........part of my question is still unanswered. How long does a tank burn? For instance, if I had a larger tank and were cutting say 2" angle iron, would it make 10 cuts or a thousand? And I realize its dependent on how much you use it. I would just like to know how expensive they are to operate.

Just go to the specifications for your torch brand to determine fuel use in cubic feet per hour (SCFH) for a particular torch model and tip size. Here's one example for a Victor size 0 cutting tip on a small torch:

http://victortechnologies.rtrk.com/?scid=2960541&kw=22051218&pub_cr_id=1547120478

That suggests you'll get about 45 minutes of use out of an MC/R cylinder setup (10 CF acetylene/20 CF oxygen), but that's for a very small cutting tip for very light work, and doesn't factor total operating time, which includes lighting and adjusting the torch, preheating the work, and actual use, so figure maybe half or slightly less of that time for actual work, or maybe 15 to 20 minutes at best.

Another factor is that most welding suppliers charge more per cubic foot for gas in small cylinders than they do in larger cylinders, so larger cylinders are generally cheaper to operate. But, if you have large cylinders and they sit for months or even years at a time (common with home setups), you've got money ******* in the higher initial cost of the larger cylinders and the unused contents.

Ideally, if you're going to be using your torch mostly for hobby cutting on a regular basis, you'd probably be better off with a B or WC acetylene cylinder (40 to 60 CF) and Q or S oxygen cylinder (60 to 122 CF), as someone already suggested.

 

[MoonRise]

How long a tank lasts depends on what tip size(s) you are using.

The HF items looks like a 'copy' of the Harris Port-a-Torch (or other similar portable oxy-acetylene torch outfits).

The cutting tip that comes with the Harris portable outfit is a #1 tip (I have the catalog from Harris saved You can get it by going on-line and looking all this info up yourself if you want to. ).

The Harris #1 tip (rated for cutting 5/8" to 1" steel) lists flow rates for oxygen and acetylene as 75-85 cfh oxygen cutting flow and 22 cfh preheat oxygen flow (at 35-40 psi) and the acetylene flow rate as 15-25 cfh (at 5-15 psi).

At those flow rates with the 20 ft3 oxygen and 10 ft3 acetylene tanks, you would get around 30 minutes of 'on' time from the acetylene tank and around 15 minutes of 'on' time from the oxygen tank.

For portability, the small tanks are fine. For run-time (and a much lower cost-per-fill-per-gas-volume) in the shop where you don't need the portability (put the 'big' tanks' on a typical oxy-acet cart and wheel it around as desired), get bigger tanks.

For heating/welding/brazing, the Harris outfit comes 'stock' with a #3 welding tip (use at 3 psi acetylene, the Harris tips are 'nice' in that regard, just use the tip # as the acetylene psi to use. So a #3 tip runs at 3 psi, a #5 tip runs at 5 psi, etc, etc.) good for welding 1/16" steel. The listed flow rate on acetylene is 5-11 cfh. So if you are at a flow rate of say 10 cfh, the little 10 ft3 acetylene cylinder would give you around 1 hour of 'on' time.

Plasma uses air and electricity (and the torch tips and 'igniter' bits) as the 'consumables. Once you get past the initial machine cost 'buy-in', plasma cutters (name brand like Hypertherm ) are rather inexpensive to run. Go check out some of the info on the Hypertherm website about operating costs for plasma-versus-oxy/fuel cutting (used to be there on the Hypertherm website, don't feel like surfing and looking for it right now. Surf away, oh seeker of knowledge. )

 

[Chaznsc]

Thank you everyone for very insightful advice. For now, I am just going to sit tight. Aside from concerns over cost, Im not sure I feel good about bottled gas in my garage.

 

[Kevin54]

Thank you everyone for very insightful advice. For now, I am just going to sit tight. Aside from concerns over cost, Im not sure I feel good about bottled gas in my garage.

Nothing wrong with bottled gas in the garage as long as you take precautions. The best thing is to have them in a cart and have them chained. If you don't want a cart, if you feel insecure, chain them to the wall. All it takes is some chain and a couple eye hooks.

Make sure you keep your gauges in good working order, and make sure you turn your tanks off, and you will have no problem. Just don't let any old dickwad use them though. Make sure you are always around to oversee if someone else is going to use them.

As far as tank size, and I don't know how they rate them other than small, medium, and large......A set of large tanks will last quite a while for the home user. We have a large set where I worked and we always used the rosebud to heat treat material. As much as we used the tanks, they would last maybe 6 months. For a home user, if you are just cutting material every now and then, a medium set of tanks would probably better suit you.

If you are the type that is going to be scrapping a lot and doing a lot of cutting, a large set of tanks would better suit you. And you have to remember....when using a cutting torch or a Rosebud, especially the cutting torch, you will go through oxygen faster than acetylene. Not quite 2:1 but not too far from it if using a cutting torch only. Reason being is that you are using oxygen to cut at maybe a rate of 50/50, but then you are also using oxygen to constantly blow your slag out. So it will vary depending on whether you are just cutting sheetmetal or if you are cutting some heavier iron. Your cutting torch is your biggest oxygen hog.

 

[sberry]

Look to buy used, got this for 160, some good parts but it was the tanks I was after. These are good home brew tanks, 140 acety and a 125 oxy.

 

[Lkdelta]

Nothing wrong with bottled gas in the garage as long as you take precautions. The best thing is to have them in a cart and have them chained.

If you don't want a cart, if you feel insecure, chain them to the wall. All it takes is some chain and a couple eye hooks.

Make sure you keep your gauges in good working order, and make sure you turn your tanks off, and you will have no problem.

Whether you feel insecure or not, have them chained in the cart or to the wall

See if any of these acetylene suppliers are close to you
Buy into their system and get your tanks exchanged when empty rather than owning them
http://www.thomasnet.com/south-carolina/acetylene-206003-1.html

 

[DynoDave]

OK, I have to ask....I'm here to learn.

Why the emphasis on chaining the tanks to the wall when not in use? Other than the not wanting your equipment falling over (no one wants to be clubbed by a large steel tank), and the risk of the valves getting damaged (broken off?) during a fall, are there other reason? Something specific to a torch set itself?

 

[Kevin54]

OK, I have to ask....I'm here to learn.

Why the emphasis on chaining the tanks to the wall when not in use? Other than the not wanting your equipment falling over (no one wants to be clubbed by a large steel tank), and the risk of the valves getting damaged (broken off?) during a fall, are there other reason? Something specific to a torch set itself?

If per chance they fall, and if per chance there is something laying there that would happen to knock the neck off when they fall, they will propel through a structure, or the posibility is there for it to happen. The odds of it happening are slim, but it can happen and has once or twice.

Myself, my tanks sit against the wall and ARE NOT chained. I don't always practice the safest methods

 

[Lkdelta]

OK, I have to ask....I'm here to learn.

Why the emphasis on chaining the tanks to the wall when not in use? Other than the not wanting your equipment falling over (no one wants to be clubbed by a large steel tank), and the risk of the valves getting damaged (broken off?) during a fall, are there other reason? Something specific to a torch set itself?

Is there a reason the tanks have to be stored "valve end up"?

The tanks I use, the base isn't very big and easily tip. So I tie them off to the wall
I just don't want anything smashed in the garage
or the hoses pinched and then split.

 

[zkling]

Is there a reason the tanks have to be stored "valve end up"?

Acetylene yes. Look into how acetylene is actually stored. I guess technically there wouldn't be a problem with single phase gases in storage, but multi phase ones such as acetylene, propane and the like can cause problems.

 

[Lkdelta]

Acetylene yes. Look into how acetylene is actually stored. I guess technically there wouldn't be a problem with single phase gases in storage, but multi phase ones such as acetylene, propane and the like can cause problems.

Then that's why they should be, and in some cases(commercial places-osha) need to be tied off.

 

[zkling]

Then that's why they should be, and in some cases(commercial places-osha) need to be tied off.

Not really. The reason they need to be *******, especially when in operation is so that the valves don't get sheared off from tip over and become a rocket from the high internal pressure. Technically you could store things like argon in which ever way tickled your fancy. Unless you are the hulk. Inverting a 125+cf cylinder on a regular basis is going to be a PITA. Thus keeping them upright is logical.

 

[monkeybar]

Check Homeowner's Insurance: Most policies exclude covering a burn-down if evidence is found of welding tanks present. Some will cover with a "rider" attachment, some will cover not at all.

Aside: We heated our old farmhouse in the Ozarks only with firewood; most insurance companies flat out refused to sell us coverage. monkey

Edit: Of course I always had tanks & torches! Insurance companies be damned!

 

[Gridleak]

Keep an eye out on craigslist and especially estate sales. I went to an antique radio estate sale; saw nothing I was interested in and picked up this set up for $30.00. The acetylene is smaller than I want but for 30, who can complain. Harris regulators, gauges, and Harris torch plus cutting. Flash back suppressors also. The original owner wrapped tape on one end of the hoses yet I cannot find nothing wrong. Go with a bigger setup.

 

[HMCFab9]

One more thing to add: If you look into a used one, make sure you can get the tanks refilled.
Some tanks are leased & if it hasn't been used for a long time, the lease may be up & can't be filled.
Some places won't fill them unless you can verify ownership.
(I've never had a problem... but I've heard of people who have)

 

[Kevin54]

Check Homeowner's Insurance: Most policies exclude covering a burn-down if evidence is found of welding tanks present. Some will cover with a "rider" attachment, some will cover not at all.

Aside: We heated our old farmhouse in the Ozarks only with firewood; most insurance companies flat out refused to sell us coverage. monkey

Edit: Of course I always had tanks & torches! Insurance companies be damned!

That's interesting because I just had an adjuster out to our house last week to get our insurance adjusted. My main concern was my wifes building and also my garage and contents. I specifically pointed out that I had an Oxy-Acet outfit. No problem at all and no problem at all with paint. On my tool alone, they increased by $35,000, and that doesn't include another $15,000 for general contents. My tractor is covered separately and the car(s) would be covered separately. All in all with my stuff and the wifes stuff, our insurance increased almost $150,000 for an extra $129/year.

 

[Kevin54]

One more thing to add: If you look into a used one, make sure you can get the tanks refilled.
Some tanks are leased & if it hasn't been used for a long time, the lease may be up & can't be filled.
Some places won't fill them unless you can verify ownership.
(I've never had a problem... but I've heard of people who have)

The biggest thing is that if the tanks are leased, they may also be stolen. Also one company does not like to fill another companies tanks. You USED to have proof of ownership but anymore they don't ask, or at least they didn't with me. My dad had his own tanks, the guy that filled them went out of business, but I can take them south of me to another town and get them filled, no problem. What they will do though if the tanks look to be in bad shape and they have very rusty bottoms, they may send them in to be tested at a slight cost. If they are proved faulty, the tank will be confiscated. Then it's a 50/50 chance on whether you get another tank or have to lease one.

Somewhere I heard a while back that they were going to do away with owning tanks and all tanks were going to be leased out and rotated at certain intervals for safety reasons and the tank quality would fall on the company that supplies and fills them I don't know how true it is, but it's what I heard a while back and may have been on this site I heard it.

I bought a set off of a neighbor sown the road when he got divorced. They are a little larger set. I also have my dads set which is a medium set and currently setting empty. I would probably sell my larger set to someone with gauges fairly reasonable. With me, I don't weld, but may silver solder some, or I may use them to cut rebar once in a while. Other than that, they just set.

That brings up another question that I don't know an answer and maybe some on here CAN answer it.......If you have your own set of tanks, are you allowed to paint them? The reason I ask is that my dads set has an orange acetylene tank and a green oxygen tank. My large set is both green, a lighter shade and a darker shade. I would like to take dads set and paint the Acetylene bright red, and the oxygen bright green, if allowable.

And for ones that may not know, if you buy a set of tanks, MAKE SURE you get the caps that go with them. Some places will not even mess with a tank if the cap is not with it, plus you are not supposed to transport a tank without the caps. And transporting cylinders brings up a whole new argument in itself. If you get your cylinder(s) filled, the place doing so, at least the welding shop close to me, will give you a slip of paper to keep with you while transporting the cylinder. What it states on the paper I am not sure, as it was so long ago that I had my tanks filled. also for the curious as to renting a tank, my 75/25 tank of Argon for my welder is a medium size cylinder, and it is $8.50/month rental. To buy the cylinder, it used to be $129. When I got the bill the other day I looked at the cylinder cost and it is now $237. I should have bought it then, and probably should buy it now instead of renting it. I've rented it when I was in the process of redoing my '62 Impala, which was back in '06. I could have bought it a few times over now.

 

[KEH]

I had one of the small sets. The main advantage to them was that they are easily portable. I sold the small set and got a larger set that will actually cut fairly thick metal.

KEH

 

[quick60]

Acetylene schmetylene....get a Petrogen cutting system. 2 gallons of gasoline equal to 250 cuft acetylene, cuts faster, uses less O2 and GASOLINE IS SAFER TO HANDLE THAN ACETYLENE.

USAR teams around the country are using these.

http://www.petrogen.com/

 

[Professur]

$850 for what amounts to a modified 20lbs propane tank seems somewhat excessive to me, Quick60

Don't get me wrong ... I'm the first in line for an acetylene alternative .. that stuff scares me juiceless ... but the price of that system .... just nonsense.

 

[Junkman]

Great system, however, at a starting price of $2750 for their smallest unit that will cut for about 25 - 30 minutes, the price alone takes it out of the average persons budget. When I spoke to the company today, they said that they are working on a unit for the hobbyist, but have no idea as to when the unit will be available, or a projected cost estimate. Something to be kept in mind, if the price does come down to a more reasonable amount for the small user.

 

[Kevin54]

My nephew does a lot of scrapping, and a while back they were scrapping out a large Trojan front endloader. He was using Propane and oxygen because he said the propane was considerably cheaper to use but would still cut through thick metals. He also used a 6' long cutting torch because after a while the metal was getting so hot. I never saw a torch that long before. He carried a variety with him in 24", 36" 48" and 72" in length for various scrapping jobs. He told me he could hardly tell the difference between propane and acetylene other than when initially starting out. The propane took a little longer to get the cut started, but once started was just fine. Him and his buddy would go through a few cylinders a day scrapping out big items.

 

[DynoDave]

Not really. The reason they need to be *******, especially when in operation is so that the valves don't get sheared off from tip over and become a rocket from the high internal pressure.

That's what I was thinking. So it was the reasons I thought. Make a note...I was right....once.

 

[malibu101]

My nephew does a lot of scrapping, and a while back they were scrapping out a large Trojan front endloader. He was using Propane and oxygen because he said the propane was considerably cheaper to use but would still cut through thick metals. He also used a 6' long cutting torch because after a while the metal was getting so hot. I never saw a torch that long before. He carried a variety with him in 24", 36" 48" and 72" in length for various scrapping jobs. He told me he could hardly tell the difference between propane and acetylene other than when initially starting out. The propane took a little longer to get the cut started, but once started was just fine. Him and his buddy would go through a few cylinders a day scrapping out big items.

Quite normal on many large demo projects.
As you said, propane is cheaper but a little cooler however once the metal is heated to the point that the oxygen cuts through it the cutting just keeps going like "normal".

The long torches are cool. Not only do they keep you away from the heat but they keep you away from the falling sparks and pieces.
And maybe moreso, you don't need to drag a ladder around to reach out and burn something.

 

[kraneman]

A lot of guys are using propane instead of the traditional acetylene for their cutting and brazing operations its much cheaper and more readily available,when you're cutting you wont be able to tell the difference, regular BBQ tank works fine,
Oxygen tank size, Id go with a 220 cubic oxygen cylinder and 20 lb BBQ tank. I think the propane will last for about three Oxygen Tanks .Use a number one cutting tip designed for propane use, (readily available from your local welding supply) and about 30 psi 02, if you wont be cutting anything thicker than 1 inch you should be good .

 

[Norcal]

I was going to get set up for cutting w/ propane, bought hoses suitable for propane but never have done so, w/ the high cost of gas I should, & when scrapping no reason to spend more money then have to.

Do not get caught transporting cylinders w/o caps, here it's a $1500.00 fine (Think per tank uncapped). That would hurt the wallet hard.

 

[RECox286]

The O2 tank can be in any position, however the acetylene tank

has acetone in the tank along with the gas, and if it is not placed

with the valve in the highest position (vertical) acetone is highly liable to

infiltrate the regulator, making one hell of a mess. You have been warned.

Uncle Bob

 

[sberry]

I carry an 80 and 20# LP on my pickup. I used it a lot in shop in the day pre plasma.

 

[Danver]

There seems to be a never-ending supply of things to learn here. I never even considered the option of using propane as a replacement for acetylene even though now it seems like it should have been an obvious thought. What else would you need to change in terms of regulators, hoses, torch etc. and would the pressures be any different with propane?

 

[monkeybar]

Dates of Tank Mfg. & Inspection

FWIW, I was told by gas supplier in Phoenix about 15 years ago, Co. was Air Liquide, I think, that new Fed. regulation requires regular inspections at several year intervals, up to a certain age, after which tank must be scrapped. Also, certain mfr. of tanks are disallowed for refilling. I had brought NCG (National Cylinder Gas) tanks from the Midwest, I owned them, they were OK.

When I lived in MO, state law forbid exchange of tanks when privately owned. The one guy in town who accepted empties had to ship them over 100 miles to the nearest fill point, then you got back your same tank. Time: Weeks. Shipping: $$$$. The law was changed while I lived there. I did a helluva LOT of arc welding there!

Aside: Also removed was the law disallowing ANY window tint on private vehicles, law requiring Sheriff's permit to buy any handgun, law banning firearms sound suppressors. At least they moved in the right direction! monkey

 

[Kevin54]

The O2 tank can be in any position, however the acetylene tank

has acetone in the tank along with the gas, and if it is not placed

with the valve in the highest position (vertical) acetone is highly liable to

infiltrate the regulator, making one hell of a mess. You have been warned.

Uncle Bob

I transport them laying down, but never with a regulator on them and always capped. For one, regulators are too damn expensive to be dinging up. I always let them set at least a day before using the acetylene tank to allow things to sort of settle back in. I did read though that transporting horizontally causes the chemical to become unstable and at a higher risk for explosion. It makes it hard for a homeowner to get the tanks filled and transported though if all you have is a truck and no special strapping to set them in the bed vertically.

In looking up fines out of curiosity for around Ohio for transporting without a cap, I did run across this which I have never saw before, and would be great for homeowners who may just be careless enough doing something to hit their gauges. It's a cap that is a regulator cage.

 

[Kevin54]

The O2 tank can be in any position, however the acetylene tank

has acetone in the tank along with the gas, and if it is not placed

with the valve in the highest position (vertical) acetone is highly liable to

infiltrate the regulator, making one hell of a mess. You have been warned.

Uncle Bob

I transport them laying down, but never with a regulator on them and always capped. For one, regulators are too damn expensive to be dinging up. I always let them set at least a day before using the acetylene tank to allow things to sort of settle back in. I did read though that transporting horizontally causes the chemical to become unstable and at a higher risk for explosion. It makes it hard for a homeowner to get the tanks filled and transported though if all you have is a truck and no special strapping to set them in the bed vertically.

In looking up fines out of curiosity for around Ohio for transporting without a cap, I did run across this which I have never saw before, and would be great for homeowners who may just be careless enough doing something to hit their gauges. It's a cap that is a regulator cage.